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OSAS and Apostasy

Kenny'sID

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Jesus saves people and he doesn't fail to finally save those whom he calls and justifies.
I know it may not cover everyone. But if the OSAS Proponent wants to make that case, it still does not work in my view according to Ezekiel 18:24.



First, it should be obvious to you by what I said so far that I believe in Conditional Salvationism as taught in the Bible. Chances are this means I am familar with the two who fell away in the Parable of the Sower. In fact, to say for me to "look it up" is a little insulting because it suggest that I was born again just yesterday (Which is not the case). I have argued against Eternal Security or a "Sin and Still Be Saved" type belief for many years now. I know all the excuses or verses and or lingo that they use. It does not stand up in light of Scripture and or basic morality. The fact that I even have to tell them that Eternal Security is wrong on many levels is astonishing to me.



Yes, I know that. I was not making that case or argument. But I was merely pointing out how that even if they wanted that passsage to say that.... it still doesn't work (IMHO).



People see things they want to see for their own personal reasons. I always strive to keep looking at God's Word again and ask the Lord... "Am I right on this interpretation, Lord?"

While it may be creepy or disheartening that others may think they can break God’s laws (on some level) and still be saved, I always strive to pray for them and hold out hope and to love them with everything I got.

Jason, did I say those things to you? No big deal, but your post is confusing in that you added, "you said" and took away who I said it too.

Please clarify if I said those things directly to you. It's hard to keep up with who belies what around here, and I figure I'm doing well to have only gotten confused a few times, but still, if apology is due, I will offer it.
 
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"The Scripture proof for this doctrine is abundant and clear.

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord,” Rom. 8:35-39.

“Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace,” Rom. 6:14. “He that believeth bath eternal life,” John 6:47. “He that heareth my word, and believeth Him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life,” John 5:24. The moment one believes, eternal life becomes a reality, a present possession, and not merely a conditional gift of the future. “I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever,” John 6:51. He does not say that we have to eat many times, but that if we eat at all, we shall live forever. “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life,” John 4:14.

“Being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ,” Phil. 1:6. “Jehovah will perfect that which concerneth me,” Ps. 138:8. “The gifts and calling of God are not repented of,” Rom. 11:29. “The witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life,” I John 5:11. “These things have I written unto you that ye may know that ye have eternal life,” I John 5:13. “For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” Heb. 10:14. “The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto His heavenly kingdom,” II Tim. 4:18. “For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained. . . . and whom He foreordained, them He also called; and whom He called, them He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified,” Rom. 8:29. “Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” Eph. 1:5.

Jesus declared, “I give unto them (the true followers, or ‘sheep’) eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand,” John 10:28. Here we find that our security and God’s omnipotence are equal; for the former is founded on the latter. God is mightier than the whole world, and neither men nor Devil can rob Him of one of His precious jewels. It would be as easy to pluck a star out of the heavens as to pluck a saint out of the Father’s hand. Their salvation stands in His invincible might and they are placed beyond the peril of destruction. We have Christ’s promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church; yet if the Devil could snatch one here and another there and large numbers in some congregations, the gates of hell would to a great extent prevail against it. In principle, if one could be lost, all might be lost, and thus Christ’s assurance would be reduced to idle words.

When we are told that “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, who shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, If possible, even the elect,” Matt. 24:24, the unprejudiced believing mind readily understands that it is impossible to lead astray the elect.

The mystic union which exists between Christ and believers is a guarantee that they shall continue steadfast. “Because I live, ye shall live also,” John 14:19. The effect of this union is that believers participate in His life. Christ is in us, Romans 8:10. It is not we that live, but Christ that liveth in us, Gal. 2:20. Christ and the believers have a common life such as that which exists in the vine and the branches. The Holy Spirit so dwells in the redeemed that every Christian is supplied with an inexhaustible reservoir of strength.

Paul warned the Ephesians, “Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption,” Eph. 4:30. He had no fear of apostasy for he could confidently say, “Thanks be to God who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ,” II Cor. 2:14. The Lord, speaking through the prophet Jeremiah said, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love,” 31:3, — one of the best proofs that God’s love shall have no end is that it has no beginning, but is eternal. In the parable of the two houses, the very point stressed was that the house which was founded on the rock (Christ) did not fall when the storms of life came. Arminianism sets up another system in which some of those who are founded on the rock do fall. In the twenty-third Psalm we read, “And I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” The true Christian is no temporary visitor, but a permanent dweller in the house of the Lord. How those rob this psalm of its deeper and richer meaning who teach that the grace of God is a temporary thing!

Christ makes intercession for His people (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25), and we are told that the Father hears Him always (John 11:42). Hence the Arminian, holding that Christians may fall away, must deny either the passages which declare that Christ does make intercession for His people, or he must deny those which declare that His prayers are always heard. Let us consider here how well protected we are: Christ is at the right hand of God pleading for us, and in addition to that, the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered, Rom. 8:26.

In the wonderful promise of Jer. 32:40, God has promised to preserve believers from their own backslidings: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, and I will not turn away from following them, to do them good; and I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me.” And in Ezek. 11:19, 20, He promises to take from them the “stony heart,” and to give them a “heart of flesh,” so that they shall walk in his statutes and keep his ordinances, and so that they shall be His people and He their God. Peter tells us that Christians cannot fall away, for they “by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time,” I Peter 1:5. Paul says, “God is able to make all grace to abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work,” II Cor. 9:8. He declares that the Lord’s servant “shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand,” Rom. 14:4.

And Christians have the further promise, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it,” I Cor. 10:13. Their removal from certain temptations which would be too strong for them is an absolute and free gift from God, since it is entirely an arrangement of His providence as to what temptations they encounter in the course of their lives, and what ones they escape. “The Lord is faithful and will establish you and guard you from the evil one,” II Thess. 3:3. And again, “The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him and delivereth them,” Ps. 34:7. Amid all his trials and hardships Paul could say, ‘We are pressed on every side, yet not straightened; perplexed, yet not unto despair; pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed; . . . knowing that He that raised up the Lord Jesus Christ shall raise us also with Jesus,” II Cor. 4:8,9,14.

The saints, even in this world, are compared to a tree that does not wither, Ps. 1:3; to the cedars which flourish on Mount Lebanon, Ps. 92:12; to Mount Zion which cannot be moved, but which abideth forever, Ps. 125:1; and to a house built on a rock. Matt. 7:24. The Lord is with them in their old age, Is. 46:4, and is their guide even unto death, Ps 48:14, so that they cannot be totally and finally lost.

Another strong argument is to be noticed concerning the Lamb’s book of life. The disciples were told to rejoice, not so much over the fact that the demons were subject to them, but that their names were written in the Lamb’s book of life. This book is a catalogue of the elect, determined by the unalterable counsel of God, and can neither be increased nor diminished. The names of the righteous are found there; but the names of those who perish have never been written there from the foundation of the world. God does not make the mistake of writing in the book of life a name which He will later have to blot out. Hence none of the Lord’s own ever perish. Jesus told His disciples to find their chief joy in the fact that their names were written in heaven, Luke 10:20; yet there would have been small grounds for joy in this respect if their names written in heaven one day could have been blotted out the next. Paul wrote to the Philippians, “Our citizenship is in heaven,” 3:20; and to Timothy he wrote, “The Lord knoweth them that are His,” II Tim. 2:19. For the Scripture teaching concerning the book of life, see Luke 10:20; Phil 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12-15; 21:27.

Here, then, are very simple and plain statements that the Christian shall continue in grace, the reason being that the Lord takes it upon Himself to preserve him in that state. In these promises the elect are secured on both sides. Not only will God not depart from them, but He will so put His fear into their hearts that they shall not depart from him. Surely no Spirit-taught Christian can doubt that this doctrine is taught in the Bible. It seems that man, poor, wretched and impotent as he is, would welcome a doctrine which secures for him the possessions of eternal happiness despite all attacks from without and all evil tendencies from within. But it is not so. He refuses it, and argues against it. And the causes are not far to seek. In the first place he has more confidence in himself than he has any right to have. Secondly, the scheme is so contrary to what he is used to in the natural world that he persuades himself that it cannot be true. Thirdly, he perceives that if this doctrine be admitted, the other doctrines of free grace will logically follow. Hence he twists and explains away the Scripture passages which teach it, and clings to some which appear on the surface to favor his preconceived views. In fact, a system of salvation by grace is so utterly at variance with his everyday experience, in which he sees every thing and person treated according to works and merits, that he has great difficulty in bringing himself to believe that it can be true. He wishes to earn his own salvation, though certainly he expects very high wanes for very sorry work." Loraine Boettner, Perseverance of the Saints
 
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Jason, did I say those things to you? No big deal, but your post is confusing in that you added, "you said" and took away who I said it too.

Please clarify if I said those things directly to you. It's hard to keep up with who belies what around here, and I figure I'm doing well to have only gotten confused a few times, but still, if apology is due, I will offer it.

If you were to read all of post #52, it is obvious and clear that I am against OSAS by what I said within that post. I don’t believe what I said was confusing. Anyways, thanks for the apology, friend.

May God bless you.
 
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Kenny'sID

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If you were to read all of post #52, it is obvious and clear that I am against OSAS by what I said within that post. I don’t believe what I said was confusing. Anyways, thanks for the apology, friend.

May God bless you.

You did not answer my question?

Did I say those things to you?
 
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You did not answer my question?

Did I say those things to you?

In post 68 you say the words “look it up” in reference to the parable of the sower. I had already made it clear I am against Eternity Security in the post that you replied to. I am also not a new believer or born again yesterday.

As for the question I am not answering:

The question does not make any sense. Please provide specific words I said with post numbers that confuse you and then formulate your question based upon that. Right now, I have no idea of what you are talking about.
 
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Kenny'sID

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In post 68 you say the words “look it up” in reference to the parable of the sower. I had already made it clear I am against Eternity Security in the post that you replied to. I am also not a new believer or born again yesterday.

As for the question I am not answering:

The question does not make any sense. Please provide specific words I said with post numbers that confuse you and then formulate your question based upon that. Right now, I have no idea of what you are talking about.

Good grief man, if you don't want to answer the simple question, don't worry about it.
 
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This is Roman Catholic theology. Are you a Roman Catholic?

I think that is what Bible teaches and so, Bible theology. Is there some reason to think it is not what the Bible teaches?

I personally think I am disciple of Jesus, not Roman Catholic. :)
 
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Kit Sigmon

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Did Peter "lose" his standing with Christ after denying Christ three times? This only hours before calling him clean except for Judas.

All of the disciples abandoned/denied Jesus... 'cause they feared losing they lives.
Only after Jesus' resurrection and him exhorting, commissioning and empowering them to do the work he had set before them, did these men boldly preach the gospel without fear of losing they lives.



Now Christ did in John 21 restore Peter. Who initiated that restoration? Peter or Jesus?

When Peter heard it be Jesus on the shore, without hesitation Peter girded up
his clothing, dove into the water and swam over to where Jesus was.
Then on down in 21 chapter of John, there come the three "Do you love me?" questions...the form of love Jesus uses be agape...sacrificial love.
Jesus exhorts and commissions Peter, for his sacrificial leadership role...leader
of a flock must be willing to lay down his life for the good of the flock.
 
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Good grief man, if you don't want to answer the simple question, don't worry about it.

How can I answer the question when I don't know what the question is talking about? You asked a question, but it didn’t make any sense without any kind of frame of reference (like a post # with words that are bolded to show what you are talking about). For example if I asked if you like purple flying squirrels vs the fire breathing green squirrels, there would be no real no way for you to reply because there are no such creatures (Unless I was referring to a children’s story I created or something as a frame of reference).

In other words, I cannot read your mind and expect to know what you are talking about. You can either explain or continue to complain. It is your choice, my friend.

In either case, may the Lord's love be upon you today;
And may you please be well.
 
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redleghunter

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When Peter heard it be Jesus on the shore, without hesitation Peter girded up
his clothing, dove into the water and swam over to where Jesus was.
Then on down in 21 chapter of John, there come the three "Do you love me?" questions...the form of love Jesus uses be agape...sacrificial love.
Jesus exhorts and commissions Peter, for his sacrificial leadership role...leader
of a flock must be willing to lay down his life for the good of the flock.
Thanks for that. Why did you add words to my post? Not that is disagree with what you posted but it was not my quote.

Thanks .
 
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Kenny'sID

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How can I answer the question when I don't know what the question is talking about? You asked a question, but it didn’t make any sense without any kind of frame of reference (like a post # with words that are bolded to show what you are talking about). For example if I asked if you like purple flying squirrels vs the fire breathing green squirrels, there would be no real no way for you to reply because there are no such creatures (Unless I was referring to a children’s story I created or something as a frame of reference).

In other words, I cannot read your mind and expect to know what you are talking about. You can either explain or continue to complain. It is your choice, my friend.

In either case, may the Lord's love be upon you today;
And may you please be well.

The question was clear, but don't worry about it, and sorry I snapped at you.
 
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redleghunter

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"The Scripture proof for this doctrine is abundant and clear.

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord,” Rom. 8:35-39.

“Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace,” Rom. 6:14. “He that believeth bath eternal life,” John 6:47. “He that heareth my word, and believeth Him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life,” John 5:24. The moment one believes, eternal life becomes a reality, a present possession, and not merely a conditional gift of the future. “I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever,” John 6:51. He does not say that we have to eat many times, but that if we eat at all, we shall live forever. “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life,” John 4:14.

“Being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ,” Phil. 1:6. “Jehovah will perfect that which concerneth me,” Ps. 138:8. “The gifts and calling of God are not repented of,” Rom. 11:29. “The witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life,” I John 5:11. “These things have I written unto you that ye may know that ye have eternal life,” I John 5:13. “For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” Heb. 10:14. “The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto His heavenly kingdom,” II Tim. 4:18. “For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained. . . . and whom He foreordained, them He also called; and whom He called, them He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified,” Rom. 8:29. “Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” Eph. 1:5.

Jesus declared, “I give unto them (the true followers, or ‘sheep’) eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand,” John 10:28. Here we find that our security and God’s omnipotence are equal; for the former is founded on the latter. God is mightier than the whole world, and neither men nor Devil can rob Him of one of His precious jewels. It would be as easy to pluck a star out of the heavens as to pluck a saint out of the Father’s hand. Their salvation stands in His invincible might and they are placed beyond the peril of destruction. We have Christ’s promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church; yet if the Devil could snatch one here and another there and large numbers in some congregations, the gates of hell would to a great extent prevail against it. In principle, if one could be lost, all might be lost, and thus Christ’s assurance would be reduced to idle words.

When we are told that “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, who shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, If possible, even the elect,” Matt. 24:24, the unprejudiced believing mind readily understands that it is impossible to lead astray the elect.

The mystic union which exists between Christ and believers is a guarantee that they shall continue steadfast. “Because I live, ye shall live also,” John 14:19. The effect of this union is that believers participate in His life. Christ is in us, Romans 8:10. It is not we that live, but Christ that liveth in us, Gal. 2:20. Christ and the believers have a common life such as that which exists in the vine and the branches. The Holy Spirit so dwells in the redeemed that every Christian is supplied with an inexhaustible reservoir of strength.

Paul warned the Ephesians, “Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption,” Eph. 4:30. He had no fear of apostasy for he could confidently say, “Thanks be to God who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ,” II Cor. 2:14. The Lord, speaking through the prophet Jeremiah said, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love,” 31:3, — one of the best proofs that God’s love shall have no end is that it has no beginning, but is eternal. In the parable of the two houses, the very point stressed was that the house which was founded on the rock (Christ) did not fall when the storms of life came. Arminianism sets up another system in which some of those who are founded on the rock do fall. In the twenty-third Psalm we read, “And I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” The true Christian is no temporary visitor, but a permanent dweller in the house of the Lord. How those rob this psalm of its deeper and richer meaning who teach that the grace of God is a temporary thing!

Christ makes intercession for His people (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25), and we are told that the Father hears Him always (John 11:42). Hence the Arminian, holding that Christians may fall away, must deny either the passages which declare that Christ does make intercession for His people, or he must deny those which declare that His prayers are always heard. Let us consider here how well protected we are: Christ is at the right hand of God pleading for us, and in addition to that, the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered, Rom. 8:26.

In the wonderful promise of Jer. 32:40, God has promised to preserve believers from their own backslidings: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, and I will not turn away from following them, to do them good; and I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me.” And in Ezek. 11:19, 20, He promises to take from them the “stony heart,” and to give them a “heart of flesh,” so that they shall walk in his statutes and keep his ordinances, and so that they shall be His people and He their God. Peter tells us that Christians cannot fall away, for they “by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time,” I Peter 1:5. Paul says, “God is able to make all grace to abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work,” II Cor. 9:8. He declares that the Lord’s servant “shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand,” Rom. 14:4.

And Christians have the further promise, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it,” I Cor. 10:13. Their removal from certain temptations which would be too strong for them is an absolute and free gift from God, since it is entirely an arrangement of His providence as to what temptations they encounter in the course of their lives, and what ones they escape. “The Lord is faithful and will establish you and guard you from the evil one,” II Thess. 3:3. And again, “The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him and delivereth them,” Ps. 34:7. Amid all his trials and hardships Paul could say, ‘We are pressed on every side, yet not straightened; perplexed, yet not unto despair; pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed; . . . knowing that He that raised up the Lord Jesus Christ shall raise us also with Jesus,” II Cor. 4:8,9,14.

The saints, even in this world, are compared to a tree that does not wither, Ps. 1:3; to the cedars which flourish on Mount Lebanon, Ps. 92:12; to Mount Zion which cannot be moved, but which abideth forever, Ps. 125:1; and to a house built on a rock. Matt. 7:24. The Lord is with them in their old age, Is. 46:4, and is their guide even unto death, Ps 48:14, so that they cannot be totally and finally lost.

Another strong argument is to be noticed concerning the Lamb’s book of life. The disciples were told to rejoice, not so much over the fact that the demons were subject to them, but that their names were written in the Lamb’s book of life. This book is a catalogue of the elect, determined by the unalterable counsel of God, and can neither be increased nor diminished. The names of the righteous are found there; but the names of those who perish have never been written there from the foundation of the world. God does not make the mistake of writing in the book of life a name which He will later have to blot out. Hence none of the Lord’s own ever perish. Jesus told His disciples to find their chief joy in the fact that their names were written in heaven, Luke 10:20; yet there would have been small grounds for joy in this respect if their names written in heaven one day could have been blotted out the next. Paul wrote to the Philippians, “Our citizenship is in heaven,” 3:20; and to Timothy he wrote, “The Lord knoweth them that are His,” II Tim. 2:19. For the Scripture teaching concerning the book of life, see Luke 10:20; Phil 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12-15; 21:27.

Here, then, are very simple and plain statements that the Christian shall continue in grace, the reason being that the Lord takes it upon Himself to preserve him in that state. In these promises the elect are secured on both sides. Not only will God not depart from them, but He will so put His fear into their hearts that they shall not depart from him. Surely no Spirit-taught Christian can doubt that this doctrine is taught in the Bible. It seems that man, poor, wretched and impotent as he is, would welcome a doctrine which secures for him the possessions of eternal happiness despite all attacks from without and all evil tendencies from within. But it is not so. He refuses it, and argues against it. And the causes are not far to seek. In the first place he has more confidence in himself than he has any right to have. Secondly, the scheme is so contrary to what he is used to in the natural world that he persuades himself that it cannot be true. Thirdly, he perceives that if this doctrine be admitted, the other doctrines of free grace will logically follow. Hence he twists and explains away the Scripture passages which teach it, and clings to some which appear on the surface to favor his preconceived views. In fact, a system of salvation by grace is so utterly at variance with his everyday experience, in which he sees every thing and person treated according to works and merits, that he has great difficulty in bringing himself to believe that it can be true. He wishes to earn his own salvation, though certainly he expects very high wanes for very sorry work." Loraine Boettner, Perseverance of the Saints
Thanks. Loads there on the perseverance of the saints.

I will also note a lot on the preservation (God's sovereign acts) present as well. We all don't talk on that much.

God Is Faithful to Preserve His Own
 
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Thanks. Loads there on the perseverance of the saints.

I will also note a lot on the preservation (God's sovereign acts) present as well. We all don't talk on that much.

God Is Faithful to Preserve His Own

It really is all about the faithfulness of God, and His sovereign work in salvation. We tend to loose sight of the finished work of Christ, and the perfection He walked in and what that means for us. We loose sight of what Christ accomplished at Calvary, and the certainty and immutability of the knowledge of God, and how those are related to God predestining and electing His people before the foundation of the world. Instead we look at our lives and others and question and then question some more. Lord have mercy!
 
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redleghunter

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It really is all about the faithfulness of God, and His sovereign work in salvation. We tend to loose sight of the finished work of Christ, and the perfection He walked in and what that means for us. We loose sight of what Christ accomplished at Calvary, and the certainty and immutability of the knowledge of God, and how those are related to God predestining and electing His people before the foundation of the world. Instead we look at our lives and others and question and then question some more. Lord have mercy!
Indeed. I would love to have more discussions here on the intimacy of walking in the Spirit as there is way more in the NT epistles than doctrinal statements.

Have a question to ask. If you have the time please PM me.

God Bless!
 
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Sam91

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OSAS is something I can't understand. I see many scriptures saying otherwise. I do wish I could speak to a scholar about that. However, I am reluctant to divulge thhe scriptures incase it causes someone to wobble in their faith. That leaves me forced to just hope one day the Lord will shed light on it. In the meantime not rely on my own understanding and just trust in what I'm taught.
 
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redleghunter

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It really is all about the faithfulness of God, and His sovereign work in salvation. We tend to loose sight of the finished work of Christ, and the perfection He walked in and what that means for us. We loose sight of what Christ accomplished at Calvary, and the certainty and immutability of the knowledge of God, and how those are related to God predestining and electing His people before the foundation of the world. Instead we look at our lives and others and question and then question some more. Lord have mercy!
One of the best on the subject by Francis Schaeffer:

The Finished Work of Christ: The Truth of Romans 1-8
 
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fhansen

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It really is all about the faithfulness of God, and His sovereign work in salvation. We tend to loose sight of the finished work of Christ, and the perfection He walked in and what that means for us. We loose sight of what Christ accomplished at Calvary, and the certainty and immutability of the knowledge of God, and how those are related to God predestining and electing His people before the foundation of the world. Instead we look at our lives and others and question and then question some more. Lord have mercy!
That's simply because we know what God's intention is-for all humans-so we're the wildcard in it all, not Him.
 
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