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OSAS and Apostasy

Ron Gurley

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Q: Cannot one who's once tasted of the "heavenly gift" still "fall away"?

A: A spirit who has been made to "know" the sower and the seed may fail to accept the gift of salvation and "sprout"/be saved.

Luke 8 (NASB)...seed is the "word of God / "gospel
5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed,
A. some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up.
B. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
C. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out.

B."Apostasy" is a forgivable sin.

1 Timothy 4 [ Apostasy ]
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will "fall away from the faith"
, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Hosea 14:4
I will heal their apostasy, I will love them freely, For My anger has turned away from them.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (Second Coming) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness (anti-christ) is revealed, the son of destruction,

Matthew 24 (NASB)...JESUS' prophecy of the "end times"
“Then they will deliver you to TRIBULATION, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10 At that time many will FALL AWAY and will betray one another and hate one another.
11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end (OF TRIBULATION) , he will be saved (FROM DEATH OR WORSE!).
14 This "gospel of the kingdom" shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations,
and then the end (OF TRIBULATIONS) will come.

will fall away...GREEK 4624...skandalizō...
1.to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend
1.to entice to sin
2.to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey
 
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justbyfaith

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"The Scripture proof for this doctrine is abundant and clear.

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord,” Rom. 8:35-39.

“Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace,” Rom. 6:14. “He that believeth bath eternal life,” John 6:47. “He that heareth my word, and believeth Him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life,” John 5:24. The moment one believes, eternal life becomes a reality, a present possession, and not merely a conditional gift of the future. “I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever,” John 6:51. He does not say that we have to eat many times, but that if we eat at all, we shall live forever. “Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life,” John 4:14.

“Being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ,” Phil. 1:6. “Jehovah will perfect that which concerneth me,” Ps. 138:8. “The gifts and calling of God are not repented of,” Rom. 11:29. “The witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life,” I John 5:11. “These things have I written unto you that ye may know that ye have eternal life,” I John 5:13. “For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” Heb. 10:14. “The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto His heavenly kingdom,” II Tim. 4:18. “For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained. . . . and whom He foreordained, them He also called; and whom He called, them He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified,” Rom. 8:29. “Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” Eph. 1:5.

Jesus declared, “I give unto them (the true followers, or ‘sheep’) eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand,” John 10:28. Here we find that our security and God’s omnipotence are equal; for the former is founded on the latter. God is mightier than the whole world, and neither men nor Devil can rob Him of one of His precious jewels. It would be as easy to pluck a star out of the heavens as to pluck a saint out of the Father’s hand. Their salvation stands in His invincible might and they are placed beyond the peril of destruction. We have Christ’s promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church; yet if the Devil could snatch one here and another there and large numbers in some congregations, the gates of hell would to a great extent prevail against it. In principle, if one could be lost, all might be lost, and thus Christ’s assurance would be reduced to idle words.

When we are told that “There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, who shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, If possible, even the elect,” Matt. 24:24, the unprejudiced believing mind readily understands that it is impossible to lead astray the elect.

The mystic union which exists between Christ and believers is a guarantee that they shall continue steadfast. “Because I live, ye shall live also,” John 14:19. The effect of this union is that believers participate in His life. Christ is in us, Romans 8:10. It is not we that live, but Christ that liveth in us, Gal. 2:20. Christ and the believers have a common life such as that which exists in the vine and the branches. The Holy Spirit so dwells in the redeemed that every Christian is supplied with an inexhaustible reservoir of strength.

Paul warned the Ephesians, “Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption,” Eph. 4:30. He had no fear of apostasy for he could confidently say, “Thanks be to God who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ,” II Cor. 2:14. The Lord, speaking through the prophet Jeremiah said, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love,” 31:3, — one of the best proofs that God’s love shall have no end is that it has no beginning, but is eternal. In the parable of the two houses, the very point stressed was that the house which was founded on the rock (Christ) did not fall when the storms of life came. Arminianism sets up another system in which some of those who are founded on the rock do fall. In the twenty-third Psalm we read, “And I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” The true Christian is no temporary visitor, but a permanent dweller in the house of the Lord. How those rob this psalm of its deeper and richer meaning who teach that the grace of God is a temporary thing!

Christ makes intercession for His people (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25), and we are told that the Father hears Him always (John 11:42). Hence the Arminian, holding that Christians may fall away, must deny either the passages which declare that Christ does make intercession for His people, or he must deny those which declare that His prayers are always heard. Let us consider here how well protected we are: Christ is at the right hand of God pleading for us, and in addition to that, the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered, Rom. 8:26.

In the wonderful promise of Jer. 32:40, God has promised to preserve believers from their own backslidings: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, and I will not turn away from following them, to do them good; and I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me.” And in Ezek. 11:19, 20, He promises to take from them the “stony heart,” and to give them a “heart of flesh,” so that they shall walk in his statutes and keep his ordinances, and so that they shall be His people and He their God. Peter tells us that Christians cannot fall away, for they “by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed at the last time,” I Peter 1:5. Paul says, “God is able to make all grace to abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work,” II Cor. 9:8. He declares that the Lord’s servant “shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand,” Rom. 14:4.

And Christians have the further promise, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it,” I Cor. 10:13. Their removal from certain temptations which would be too strong for them is an absolute and free gift from God, since it is entirely an arrangement of His providence as to what temptations they encounter in the course of their lives, and what ones they escape. “The Lord is faithful and will establish you and guard you from the evil one,” II Thess. 3:3. And again, “The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him and delivereth them,” Ps. 34:7. Amid all his trials and hardships Paul could say, ‘We are pressed on every side, yet not straightened; perplexed, yet not unto despair; pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed; . . . knowing that He that raised up the Lord Jesus Christ shall raise us also with Jesus,” II Cor. 4:8,9,14.

The saints, even in this world, are compared to a tree that does not wither, Ps. 1:3; to the cedars which flourish on Mount Lebanon, Ps. 92:12; to Mount Zion which cannot be moved, but which abideth forever, Ps. 125:1; and to a house built on a rock. Matt. 7:24. The Lord is with them in their old age, Is. 46:4, and is their guide even unto death, Ps 48:14, so that they cannot be totally and finally lost.

Another strong argument is to be noticed concerning the Lamb’s book of life. The disciples were told to rejoice, not so much over the fact that the demons were subject to them, but that their names were written in the Lamb’s book of life. This book is a catalogue of the elect, determined by the unalterable counsel of God, and can neither be increased nor diminished. The names of the righteous are found there; but the names of those who perish have never been written there from the foundation of the world. God does not make the mistake of writing in the book of life a name which He will later have to blot out. Hence none of the Lord’s own ever perish. Jesus told His disciples to find their chief joy in the fact that their names were written in heaven, Luke 10:20; yet there would have been small grounds for joy in this respect if their names written in heaven one day could have been blotted out the next. Paul wrote to the Philippians, “Our citizenship is in heaven,” 3:20; and to Timothy he wrote, “The Lord knoweth them that are His,” II Tim. 2:19. For the Scripture teaching concerning the book of life, see Luke 10:20; Phil 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12-15; 21:27.

Here, then, are very simple and plain statements that the Christian shall continue in grace, the reason being that the Lord takes it upon Himself to preserve him in that state. In these promises the elect are secured on both sides. Not only will God not depart from them, but He will so put His fear into their hearts that they shall not depart from him. Surely no Spirit-taught Christian can doubt that this doctrine is taught in the Bible. It seems that man, poor, wretched and impotent as he is, would welcome a doctrine which secures for him the possessions of eternal happiness despite all attacks from without and all evil tendencies from within. But it is not so. He refuses it, and argues against it. And the causes are not far to seek. In the first place he has more confidence in himself than he has any right to have. Secondly, the scheme is so contrary to what he is used to in the natural world that he persuades himself that it cannot be true. Thirdly, he perceives that if this doctrine be admitted, the other doctrines of free grace will logically follow. Hence he twists and explains away the Scripture passages which teach it, and clings to some which appear on the surface to favor his preconceived views. In fact, a system of salvation by grace is so utterly at variance with his everyday experience, in which he sees every thing and person treated according to works and merits, that he has great difficulty in bringing himself to believe that it can be true. He wishes to earn his own salvation, though certainly he expects very high wanes for very sorry work." Loraine Boettner, Perseverance of the Saints
@Jason0047, Do you have an answer for this one?
 
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justbyfaith

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Love never fails...on Irresistible Grace.

1 Corinthians 13:8-a says that "Charity never faileth." or, "Love never fails." Considering that God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16), it follows that God cannot fail to redeem the ones He loves. Revelation 19:6 tells us that God is Omnipotent.

This means either Universalism or Limited Atonement.

But one might ask, Does not God love everyone? For the answer, one only need to look at such scriptures as Romans 9:13; Romans 9:25; Hosea 9:15; Psalms 5:5-6; Psalms 7:11; and others. Now Hosea 9:15 might even teach us that eternal security is not a given even if God loves us and His love cannot fail; it remains that for some the quality and quantity of His love is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:3). So for them His love cannot fail to both save and keep them. However for some, who do not continue in His goodness, it is clear that they cannot presume that they are eternally secure and can never be cut off: in fact God promises to cut off those who don't continue in His goodness (Romans 11:20-22). Therefore in my own theology I strike a balance between eternal security and its opposite. I have received a personal promise from the Lord that He has loved me with an everlasting love and will never leave me nor forsake me...if any listener desires to also receive such a promise let him heed Jeremiah 29:13 and seek after the Lord and His righteousness with all their heart.
 
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ClementofA

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Did Peter "lose" his standing with Christ after denying Christ three times?

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges …
 
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ClementofA

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"28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” John 10:28-30

John 10:28-29 specifically says "no one will SNATCH them out of my hand".

This passage doesn't deny the possibility that they can CRAWL or JUMP out of his hand by their own free will choice. For someone else to "snatch" them out of his hand is one thing. For them to willfully choose to LEAVE his hand is something else entirely.

The "snatching" in John 10:28-29 only addresses what OTHERS can do to remove one from Christ, not what that one can HIMSELF do to remove himself from Christ. Therefore it fails as a "proof text" for OSAS.

In the immediate context (v.25-27) & elsewhere in the greater context of John's gospel & Scripture, aionion life & not perishing for the aion is dependent on believing. The context does not address the question of whether or not one who believes will always persevere in belief or if they can shipwreck their faith & lose it. So the reference to being given aionion life & not persishing for the aion (v.28) does not establish a "proof text" for OSAS either.

Jn.10:28 And I am giving them life eonian, and they should by no means be perishing for the eon, and no one shall be snatching them out of My hand. (CLV)

Moreover, in the context of Jn.10:25-29, the believers being spoken of are not those who believe "for a while" (LK.8:13) or shipwreck their faith (1 Tim.1:19), but who (1) hear His voice (2) are known by Him & (3) follow Him.

Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: (1 Tim.1:19)

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. (Lk.8:13)
 
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ClementofA

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I would suggest, and I think that the Bible teaches, that if one denies Christ then they never truly accepted him to begin with.

Peter denied the Lord three times. Yet before that the Father revealed to him Jesus as the Christ & the Son of the living God (Mt.16).

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges …
 
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Tree of Life

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Peter denied the Lord three times. Yet before that the Father revealed to him Jesus as the Christ & the Son of the living God (Mt.16).

The kind of denial that I’m talking about is an ultimate denial. Peter’s denial was not ultimate because he repented. Indeed, he immediately regretted his denial, going outside Caiaphas’ chambers to weep. I would go as far as to say that Peter’s denial was not a genuine denial at all. Peter really did know Jesus and believed in Jesus. Peter was lying when he denied Jesus. A legitimate denial of Jesus is when one truthfully denies him.
 
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ClementofA

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The kind of denial that I’m talking about is an ultimate denial. Peter’s denial was not ultimate because he repented. Indeed, he immediately regretted his denial, going outside Caiaphas’ chambers to weep. I would go as far as to say that Peter’s denial was not a genuine denial at all. Peter really did know Jesus and believed in Jesus. Peter was lying when he denied Jesus. A legitimate denial of Jesus is when one truthfully denies him.

Peter's type of denial is recorded here:

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

Compare:

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev.21:8)
 
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Tree of Life

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Peter's type of denial is recorded here:

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

Compare:

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev.21:8)
Are you suggesting that Peter is not saved?
 
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redleghunter

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Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges …
So where does the apostle Peter stand?
 
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ClementofA

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