OSAS and Apostasy

[Tree of Life]

Reformed types (aka Calvinists, Presbyterians, etc) rightly believe in the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints, aka Once Saved Always Saved. They rightly believe it because the Bible teaches it.

Jesus saves people and he doesn't fail to finally save those whom he calls and justifies.

Yet there is the reality of apostasy. Apostasy is the phenomenon of people in the church who profess faith, exhibit what appears to be evidence of salvation, receive the sacraments, and yet go on at some point to deny the faith, leave the church, and fall away from Christ.

The Bible recognizes this phenomenon and is replete with warnings against falling away. Sadly we also experience this phenomenon in our lives with those who belong to our churches and those whom we love.

Many think that the reality of apostasy and the doctrine of OSAS are incompatible. But this is not what the Reformers taught. We must reckon with two profound, Biblical truths simultaneously:

1. Those who are truly saved cannot ultimately fall away from salvation.
2. It is possible for any Christian at any time to apostatize and we must diligently strive to keep the faith until the end.

There are many wrong ways to try to reckon with these truths. The most obvious error is to deny one or the other. Many Arminians end up denying (1) while many Calvinists end up denying (2). But the Bible teaches both. The Reformers understood this very well. How do you hold these two truths together?

 

[iEye]

4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Call me Nic]

Once Saved Always Saved is different than Perseverance of the Saints because Once Saved Always Saved is a one time, unchangable event that takes place. It's a shut door after you're saved. However, perseverance of the Saints says that one who is saved will always continue to have faith (maintaining faith being the key element to salvation), even until the end. Perseverance of the Saints implies that a person that is saved can in fact lose their salvation if they hypothetically stop believing, whereas Once Saved Always Saved says that a person cannot lose their salvation even if they stop believing after a time.

Apostasy is receiving and understanding the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but rejecting it and not believing (like the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the Mormons) - not falling away from belief after believing.

I believe in Once Saved Always Saved, not Perseverance of the Saints because once a person is born again, they cannot be unborn again or unregenerated, it doesn't matter what does or doesn't happen. We're saved by grace through faith in Christ, not by works at all - once we're born again (a single, one time event), we're sealed with the holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption.

 

[Tree of Life]

4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Thank you for quoting this Scripture. This is one place where the Bible talks about apostasy.

 

[Tree of Life]

Once Saved Always Saved is different than Perseverance of the Saints because Once Saved Always Saved is a one time, unchangable event that takes place. It's a shut door after you're saved. However, perseverance of the Saints says that one who is saved will always continue to have faith (maintaining faith being the key element to salvation), even until the end. Perseverance of the Saints implies that a person that is saved can in fact lose their salvation if they hypothetically stop believing, whereas Once Saved Always Saved says that a person cannot lose their salvation even if they stop believing after a time.

If this is what "OSAS" means then "OSAS" is heresy. I don't think that this is an accurate portrayal of OSAS. What you describe as Perseverance of the Saints is more like it. But there may be many in the evangelical church who believe similar to what you've called OSAS.

Apostasy is receiving and understanding the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but rejecting it and not believing (like the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the Mormons) - not falling away from belief after believing.

This doesn't make much sense. You say: "Apostasy is receiving Christ, but rejecting Christ". Since those two things are incompatible I'm not sure what you mean. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are not apostates, but heretics. Unless, of course, one apostatizes from Christianity to become a Mormon of JW. Then they've apostatized because they've denied the faith they once professed.

I believe in Once Saved Always Saved, not Perseverance of the Saints because once a person is born again, they cannot be unborn again or unregenerated, it doesn't matter what does or doesn't happen. We're saved by grace through faith in Christ, not by works at all - once we're born again (a single, one time event), we're sealed with the holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption.

So you believe that a person can have some amazing regenerative moment and then live the rest of their lives in unrepentant sin and unbelief and still be saved? This is heretical!

 

[HereIStand]

I agree with the OP. Sometimes I have trouble applying the theology in real life. Some high school and college classmates appeared to be Christian earlier in life, but now either deny Christianity outright or embrace a heterodox theology at best.

One high school classmate who was quite active in evangelism in high school and college still believes in Christ, but now sees Paul as a heretic. Another college classmate now embraces Christian universalism, styled on the book The Inescapable Love of God. Still another college classmate, only sees himself as Christian in the sense that he is not-Jewish.

 

[Tree of Life]

At least one application is, I think, never give up on anybody. Even if they appear to apostatize there may still be hope. Life is long!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Reformed types (aka Calvinists, Presbyterians, etc) rightly believe in the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints, aka Once Saved Always Saved. They rightly believe it because the Bible teaches it.

Jesus saves people and he doesn't fail to finally save those whom he calls and justifies.

Yet there is the reality of apostasy. Apostasy is the phenomenon of people in the church who profess faith, exhibit what appears to be evidence of salvation, receive the sacraments, and yet go on at some point to deny the faith, leave the church, and fall away from Christ.

The Bible recognizes this phenomenon and is replete with warnings against falling away. Sadly we also experience this phenomenon in our lives with those who belong to our churches and those whom we love.

Many think that the reality of apostasy and the doctrine of OSAS are incompatible. But this is not what the Reformers taught. We must reckon with two profound, Biblical truths simultaneously:

1. Those who are truly saved cannot ultimately fall away from salvation.
2. It is possible for any Christian at any time to apostatize and we must diligently strive to keep the faith until the end.

There are many wrong ways to try to reckon with these truths. The most obvious error is to deny one or the other. Many Arminians end up denying (1) while many Calvinists end up denying (2). But the Bible teaches both. The Reformers understood this very well. How do you hold these two truths together?

So are you saying if they do deny Christ after being saved, they are still saved? I ask because a few things you said didn't seem to jibe.

They rightly believe it because the Bible teaches it.

They wrongly believe it because the bible does not teach it.

Jesus saves people and he doesn't fail to finally save those whom he calls and justifies.

Don't put this on Jesus just to make it sound convincing, that's a dirty trick. Jesus has nothing to do with people falling away and losing their salvation.

and yet go on at some point to deny the faith, leave the church, and fall away from Christ.

So again, do they lose salvation or not?? If they do, that ends OSAS, right there.

Those who are truly saved cannot ultimately fall away from salvation.

Of course they can, that' just what many keep repeating, you all learn it from each other, not from the bible and you accept it because it's what you "prefer" to believe...makes life much easier. Repeating it doesn't make it true/biblical.

 

[Call me Nic]

So you believe that a person can have some amazing regenerative moment and then live the rest of their lives in unrepentant sin and unbelief and still be saved? This is heretical!

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again (singular event), he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting (unchanging, unending) life.
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (apostates, those who know the truth but do not believe in or on Christ) And then I will profess unto them, I NEVER (meaning not ever, not even once did you have faith in me or believe in me) knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Kenny'sID]

And before you go there, you don't know if they were "never saved to begin with" or not..only God knows that. Another favorite line learned from others, not the bible, that makes no sense at all....it only sounds good to some.

 

[Rescued One]

If this is what "OSAS" means then "OSAS" is heresy. I don't think that this is an accurate portrayal of OSAS. What you describe as Perseverance of the Saints is more like it. But there may be many in the evangelical church who believe similar to what you've called OSAS.



This doesn't make much sense. You say: "Apostasy is receiving Christ, but rejecting Christ". Since those two things are incompatible I'm not sure what you mean. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are not apostates, but heretics. Unless, of course, one apostatizes from Christianity to become a Mormon of JW. Then they've apostatized because they've denied the faith they once professed.



So you believe that a person can have some amazing regenerative moment and then live the rest of their lives in unrepentant sin and unbelief and still be saved? This is heretical!

Perhaps millions of Mormons were raised in it and have never known Christ.

 

[iEye]

19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

[redleghunter]

Perseverance of the Saints implies that a person that is saved can in fact lose their salvation if they hypothetically stop believing, whereas Once Saved Always Saved says that a person cannot lose their salvation even if they stop believing after a time.

Since the OP mentions Reformed types just wanted to point the Westminster Confession of Faith on the Preservation of the saints:

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.
An Exposition of the Westminster Confession of Faith
There's an exposition at the link too.

 

[Call me Nic]

Since the OP mentions Reformed types just wanted to point the Westminster Confession of Faith on the Preservation of the saints:

Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints

Section I.–They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

Section II.–This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own freewill, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ; the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them; and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

Section III.–Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalence of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalise others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.
An Exposition of the Westminster Confession of Faith
There's an exposition at the link too.

I don't care for the wording of the Westminster Confession, simply because it implies that a person isn't saved until the end of their life, if they persevere (which according to the doctrine of irresistible grace, means they will persevere no matter what). It's just tying a knot into a simple, very biblical concept - once a person is saved, they're saved immediately, forever.

By the way, God's grace is not irresistible - God's grace is freely offered to all men (but because not all men accept God's grace, it is therefore not irresistible), because Christ died for all men, which is the underlying problem with Calvinism and reformed theology. God wants all men to be saved - he doesn't pick and choose, he doesn't individually pre-destine some people to be saved, and others to go to hell.
1 Timothy 4:10 - Christ is the savior of all men, but only will save those who accept the gift of God and believe in him.
Romans 5:18 - The righteousness of Christ is sufficient to account for the sins of all who have ever lived.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 - God wants all men to be saved.
2 Peter 3:9 - God wants all men to repent (turn away from disbelief) and believe (so they can be saved).

"Oh you say God's grace isn't irresistible? Are you saying God isn't all powerful or effectual? Heretic!" No, just because God's grace isn't irresistible doesn't mean that God's will isn't perfectly accomplished at all times - God just gives us a choice, and this is absolutely clear and obvious in scripture.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't care for the wording of the Westminster Confession, simply because it implies that a person isn't saved until the end of their life, if they persevere (which according to the doctrine of irresistible grace, means they will persevere no matter what). It's just tying a knot into a simple, very biblical concept - once a person is saved, they're saved immediately, forever.

By the way, God's grace is not irresistible - God's grace is freely offered to all men (but because not all men accept God's grace, it is therefore not irresistible), because Christ died for all men, which is the underlying problem with Calvinism and reformed theology. God wants all men to be saved - he doesn't pick and choose, he doesn't individually pre-destine some people to be saved, and others to go to hell.
1 Timothy 4:10 - Christ is the savior of all men, but only will save those who accept the gift of God and believe in him.
Romans 5:18 - The righteousness of Christ is sufficient to account for the sins of all who have ever lived.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 - God wants all men to be saved.
2 Peter 3:9 - God wants all men to repent (turn away from disbelief) and believe (so they can be saved).

"Oh you say God's grace isn't irresistible? Are you saying God isn't all powerful or effectual? Heretic!" No, just because God's grace isn't irresistible doesn't mean that God's will isn't perfectly accomplished at all times - God just gives us a choice, and this is absolutely clear and obvious in scripture.

You mean the difference between general call and effectual call. The difference of many are called but few are chosen?

Matthew 22:14

 

[1213]

...

1. Those who are truly saved cannot ultimately fall away from salvation.
2. It is possible for any Christian at any time to apostatize and we must diligently strive to keep the faith until the end.

There are many wrong ways to try to reckon with these truths. The most obvious error is to deny one or the other. Many Arminians end up denying (1) while many Calvinists end up denying (2). But the Bible teaches both. The Reformers understood this very well. How do you hold these two truths together?

But is it really necessary to go to even that. Why it is not enough to remain in what Jesus and Bible teaches? According to it, people can reject God, even when their sins have once been forgiven. Forgiveness is not revoked ever, but if person choses sins again, the forgiveness of the old sins is not useful anymore, because there is new sin.

And sin basically is that person rejects God, or lives without God. Sin can also be seen as opposite of righteous. And one example of righteous is in this:


"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

 

[redleghunter]

So are you saying if they do deny Christ after being saved, they are still saved? I ask beca

Did Peter "lose" his standing with Christ after denying Christ three times? This only hours before calling him clean except for Judas.

Now Christ did in John 21 restore Peter. Who initiated that restoration? Peter or Jesus?

 

[iEye]

25 But he that looketh into the perfect law, the [law] of liberty, and [so] continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth but a doer that worketh, this man shall be blessed in his doing.

26 If any man thinketh himself to be religious, while he bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his heart, this man's religion is vain.

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

 

[com7fy8]

We must reckon with two profound, Biblical truths simultaneously:

1. Those who are truly saved cannot ultimately fall away from salvation.
2. It is possible for any Christian at any time to apostatize and we must diligently strive to keep the faith until the end.

We who are truly saved can commit some amount of apostasy, any time we sin. But in the overall, our Heavenly Father keeps correcting us so we become less and less able to get away.

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

To me, Isaiah 55:11 is an unconditional guarantee of how God's word will do all which God desires, meaning all that God Himself understands His word to mean.

So, every teaching, promise, command, and description of the New Testament "shall" come to pass in us who are His children . . . His own love meaning of every bit and bite

But this includes how at times we need restoration > Galatians 6:1 > James 5:16; and we need to actively seek God for His own correction succeeding in us > Hebrews 12:4-11 > therefore bringing His love's perfection in us - - - "in this world." (see 1 John 4:17-18).

Therefore, we God's children go apostate any time and as much as we stray from "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6), not only from correct beliefs.

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 timothy 3:13)

People without Jesus keep getting worse, without being corrected and restored.

So, always keep having hope for anyone who seemed to get saved but then got in problems. Jesus never gave up on any of his disciples, even though they could sin right in His presence, in ways which were directly anti-love, and not only in mistakes and errors of belief and practice.

And be good example to help and to feed ones who are in trouble. God uses example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

And have compassion >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

And prayerfully watch out for how we ourselves can go apostate against how God wants us to be and relate in His love.

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

Watch out for "bitterness". Bitterness is what, really, can be the reason for a person to get away from Jesus. Unforgiveness is anti-Christ. If this stuff gets started, it can lead to all else.

 

[Phil 1:21]

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19