Oregon bill aims to crack down on racially motivated 911 calls

[RDKirk]

My story was to show that even white people can have nuisance 911 calls made against them.

So why are you arguing with me about police officers being able to write tickets on people who make nuisance 911 calls?

 

[Ana the Ist]

OK, give me a reasonable justification for calling the police on a man on the phone in a hotel lobby that you can not sort out on your own.

Can't wait till hes off the phone and have a civil exchange?

The hotel key card he presented as defense wasn't good enough?

Ok....this is it, correct?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...black-man-for-making-phone-call-in-lobby/amp/

From the sound of it, he was approached while making his call, he didn't produce any verification he was a guest for whatever reason....and the cops were called. Perhaps they don't let non-guests use the lobby phone.

It wasn't until after they were called that he produced a key.

Pretty simple really...no racism required to understand it.

 

[Sparagmos]

I can understand why you would think that is relevant. I'm not asking about hotel policy though....I'm asking about the actions of one person....which you cannot attest to.

My info was absolutely relevant but I’m not going to participate in your usual derailing of threads by arguing about it. It’s there for the posters on this thread to take it or leave it they find it helpful in the discussion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

OK, give me a reasonable justification for calling the police on a man on the phone in a hotel lobby that you can not sort out on your own.

Can't wait till hes off the phone and have a civil exchange?

The hotel key card he presented as defense wasn't good enough?

Here it is again....

Hotel Employees Fired After Calling Police On Black Guest Using His Phone

“I am a guest,” Massey says.

“You didn’t tell me that,” the security guard responds. “I asked you what room you’re in and you refused.”

Seems rather clear what happened.

 

[SummerMadness]

OK, give me a reasonable justification for calling the police on a man on the phone in a hotel lobby that you can not sort out on your own.

Can't wait till hes off the phone and have a civil exchange?

The hotel key card he presented as defense wasn't good enough?

It's always these uppity black folks that don't like to follow the rules. As soon as they have to follow the rules, they start making a scene about racism... of course let's just ignore the fact that they are the only ones ever singled out for this. We all know how the hotel often demands the keys of guests in the lobby, happens all the time. The real injustice are these people losing their jobs. Poor, poor people just trying to maintain order and black folks always messing it up.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My info was absolutely relevant but I’m not going to participate in your usual derailing of threads by arguing about it. It’s there for the posters on this thread to take it or leave it they find it helpful in the discussion.

Sorry....if they have security, it's rather obvious they are there for a reason. There's nothing wrong with security asking someone using the lobby phone if they are a guest....and it's rather easy to say "yes I am, sir...here's my key".

 

[SummerMadness]

At the end of the day, there is a contingent that believes that over-policing African Americans is okay. It doesn't matter that they are being treated differently or unfairly; their comfort is more important the the potential threat to life. It is simply a violation of human rights to consider support for these practices. But that's why they say Black Lives Matter as they obviously do not matter to some.

 

[Ana the Ist]

of course let's just ignore the fact that they are the only ones ever singled out for this.

I'm sure some think that....they aren't magically immune to confirmation bias though. If you hold the belief you're being singled out....you're more inclined to only pay attention to things that confirm that idea.

To that end....it does no one any good to walk around with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[Ana the Ist]

At the end of the day, there is a contingent that believes that over-policing African Americans is okay.

There's also a contingent willing to excuse just about anything to pursue "evil racists".

 

[variant]

Ok....this is it, correct?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...black-man-for-making-phone-call-in-lobby/amp/

From the sound of it, he was approached while making his call, he didn't produce any verification he was a guest for whatever reason....and the cops were called. Perhaps they don't let non-guests use the lobby phone.

It wasn't until after they were called that he produced a key.

Pretty simple really...no racism required to understand it.

He actually forgot his room number but did say he was a guest.

They stuck to their guns and threw him out when he produced the key and didn't even give him a refund?

Yeah totally not racist to immediately jump on the "call the cops" thing and double down on it.

It was so defensible they were fired.

Alternative situation:

Let the man finish his conversation and have a civil exchange with him before calling the police on him.

Cancel the 911 call when you realize you are harassing a paying customer.

I don't know how hard this is but apparently it's too much to ask.

And it is SUPER surprising that you would see no problem with any of it.

 

[variant]

It's always these uppity black folks that don't like to follow the rules. As soon as they have to follow the rules, they start making a scene about racism... of course let's just ignore the fact that they are the only ones ever singled out for this. We all know how the hotel often demands the keys of guests in the lobby, happens all the time. The real injustice are these people losing their jobs. Poor, poor people just trying to maintain order and black folks always messing it up.

He had the cops called on him immediately in a situation where people would expect to be treated with respect.

I'm guessing you are being sarcastic here but people probably actually think this.

 

[variant]

I'm sure some think that....they aren't magically immune to confirmation bias though. If you hold the belief you're being singled out....you're more inclined to only pay attention to things that confirm that idea.

To that end....it does no one any good to walk around with a chip on their shoulder.

Nor does it do anyone any good to double down on incorrect positions out of spite, because that is what the hotel did.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

She was accusing me of "looking at" her 10 year old kid. She made this accusation even if I simply looked out a window or she saw me sitting on my (enclosed) front porch--even if the kid was in school at the time. She drank a lot, which may have something to do with the way she was, or maybe the way she was caused her to drink a lot. She even installed a security camera that looked over my backyard fence from about 6' away.

Either way, she moved away last October.

She sounds like a victim of childhood sexual assault. Probably by a family member. And uses alcohol to get rid of the pain. And for some reason. You ,or most men triggered her post traumatic stress disorder. At least you don't have to deal with it anymore.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He actually forgot his room number but did say he was a guest.

That's not what I got from it....but it doesn't really matter.

They stuck to their guns and threw him out when he produced the key and didn't even give him a refund?

Well at that point, I highly suspect it's his behavior that is responsible. Waving around your phone at people simply trying to do their jobs....threatening them with "bad PR"....and to put it mildly, acting like a jerk.

I see nothing wrong with throwing him out at that point.

Yeah totally not racist to immediately jump on the "call the cops" thing and double down on it.

It's a business. They aren't obligated to allow the public general use of their phones ,restrooms, or anything really. It seems like at the time they called....they believed he was the general public.

There's evidence that they believed he was the general public. There's no evidence racism was involved.

As to what happened after the police were called....who cares? This about calling the police for racist reasons and they clearly had an entirely reasonable explanation for why they did.

It was so defensible they were fired.

That has more to do with the fact that many many people just believe everything they're told without any evidence. It's a sad state that the foolish use social media to pressure businesses.

Alternative situation:

Let the man finish his conversation and have a civil exchange with him before calling the police on him.

Better yet...why not just hang a sign out front that says "free phone-make your long distance calls inside"?

Nothing wrong with confirming if they are a guest.

Cancel the 911 call when you realize you are harassing a paying customer.

Oh wow....you've never ever called 911!!!!

Here's a tip....you can't cancel a 911 call.
Even if you call right back and tell them it was accidental....police are coming.

Also, it doesn't seem like they were harassing at all. They seemed pretty calm and polite from the video. He was the only one irate...probably because he jumped to the conclusion that being asked about being a guest had something to do with his race.

Like others here....apparently they think it only happens to black people.

I don't know how hard this is but apparently it's too much to ask.

Apparently you don't understand much about how these things work.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This all circles nicely back to my original point....evidence.

When someone believes racism has occurred....it could be because they have evidence it occurred, or it could be because they assumed it occurred.

If they assumed it occurred....it may have been racism, but it also might just be in their imagination.

The point is that before we pass judgement on people, get them fired, call them racists, or fine them 250$....we should definitely have evidence. Sure, we won't be able to shame as many racists as we like, or virtue signal or own lack of racism as often....but at least we won't be devastating the lives of innocent people who did nothing wrong.

Here's another example of when a pack of....protesters should have waited for evidence.

Oberlin College to pay bakery the now-massive sum of $44M over racism dispute

 

[variant]

Well at that point, I highly suspect it's his behavior that is responsible. Waving around your phone at people simply trying to do their jobs....threatening them with "bad PR"....and to put it mildly, acting like a jerk.

I see nothing wrong with throwing him out at that point.

You mean after the cops were called on him for just existing?

It's a business. They aren't obligated to allow the public general use of their phones ,restrooms, or anything really. It seems like at the time they called....they believed he was the general public.

There's evidence that they believed he was the general public. There's no evidence racism was involved.

Why though? At that point they approached a guy who said he forgot his room number and immediately called the police. Kind of skipped a few steps. Then called the police, and when the guy demonstrated he had every right to be there, still kicked him out.

Jerk or no he was right and they were wrong and they had every reason to back down.

How dare he stand up for himself and not let people freely harass him.

As to what happened after the police were called....who cares? This about calling the police for racist reasons and they clearly had an entirely reasonable explanation for why they did.

They didn't though. Their reasoning was both wrong and their approach flawed for basic human interaction.

Better yet...why not just hang a sign out front that says "free phone-make your long distance calls inside"?

Nothing wrong with confirming if they are a guest.

He was on his phone in the lobby (a common area where people who stay at the hotel are free to use) after returning to go to bed.

If he was there when he shouldn't be you have every right to kick him out but in this case they didn't give him any benefit of the doubt, they called the police before he even finished the call.

Why was he so suspicions you might ask? Were other people being asked to identify themselves and prove they belonged there you might ask?

The answer is that other people weren't so "suspicious" and they don't generally call the cops at the drop of a hat.

Oh wow....you've never ever called 911!!!!

Here's a tip....you can't cancel a 911 call.
Even if you call right back and tell them it was accidental....police are coming.

Also, it doesn't seem like they were harassing at all. They seemed pretty calm and polite from the video. He was the only one irate...probably because he jumped to the conclusion that being asked about being a guest had something to do with his race.

Like others here....apparently they think it only happens to black people.

Apparently you don't understand much about how these things work.

If you can't call 911 back then you shouldn't be so quick to call them in the first place.

Or you know, they could have apologized to the man staying at their hotel and informed the cops it was a false alarm.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You mean after the cops were called on him for just existing?

That's pretty desperate....maybe you missed this....

“I am a guest,” Massey says.

“You didn’t tell me that,” the security guard responds. “I asked you what room you’re in and you refused."

Sounds like he was approached....and instead of just answering the guard like most people, he became indignant and acted foolishly.

Why though? At that point they approached a guy who said he forgot his room number and immediately called the police. Kind of skipped a few steps. Then called the police, and when the guy demonstrated he had every right to be there, still kicked him out.

From the excerpt above, it doesn't sound like he politely replied "Sorry, I am a guest here but I seem to have forgotten my room number."

I imagine his reply was more like "Beat it, I'm on the phone, I don't have to answer you."

Jerk or no he was right and they were wrong and they had every reason to back down.

Oh nooooo....no. Goodness no. Why should any business have to put up with someone threatening the employees, acting like a jerk, and generally being disruptive? If I buy a cup of coffee in a cafe....do I then get to act in any manner I like? Or is there a basic level of decency we're all more or less accustomed to? Paying for something doesn't mean you get to behave however you want.

How dare he stand up for himself and not let people freely harass him.

He wasn't harassed. Security guards being security guards isn't harassment...anywhere.

They didn't though. Their reasoning was both wrong and their approach flawed for basic human interaction.

They did. They didn't believe he was a guest and it's his own fault for that.

He was on his phone in the lobby (a common area where people who stay at the hotel are free to use) after returning to go to bed.

If he was there when he shouldn't be you have every right to kick him out but in this case they didn't give him any benefit of the doubt, they called the police before he even finished the call.

Benefit of the doubt was given when they asked if he was a guest.

If they had just called the police without asking....you'd have a good point.

As it stands....you've got nothing.

Why was he so suspicions you might ask? Were other people being asked to identify themselves and prove they belonged there you might ask?

He's a security guard....it's his job.

If you can't call 911 back then you shouldn't be so quick to call them in the first place.

What do you mean "if"?!?!? I didn't make the rules for how 911 operates.

If someone broke into your home, and you barely get to call 911 before the intruder destroys your phone and ties you to a chair....my guess is that you'd be happy that the police will show up anyway.

Or you know, they could have apologized to the man staying at their hotel and informed the cops it was a false alarm.

They certainly could have....but it doesn't matter since we're talking about the reason why they called the police....not anything else that happened afterwards.

 

[variant]

That's pretty desperate....maybe you missed this....

“I am a guest,” Massey says.

“You didn’t tell me that,” the security guard responds. “I asked you what room you’re in and you refused."

Sounds like he was approached....and instead of just answering the guard like most people, he became indignant and acted foolishly.


From the excerpt above, it doesn't sound like he politely replied "Sorry, I am a guest here but I seem to have forgotten my room number."

I imagine his reply was more like "Beat it, I'm on the phone, I don't have to answer you."

Oh nooooo....no. Goodness no. Why should any business have to put up with someone threatening the employees, acting like a jerk, and generally being disruptive? If I buy a cup of coffee in a cafe....do I then get to act in any manner I like? Or is there a basic level of decency we're all more or less accustomed to? Paying for something doesn't mean you get to behave however you want.

He wasn't harassed. Security guards being security guards isn't harassment...anywhere.

They did. They didn't believe he was a guest and it's his own fault for that

Benefit of the doubt was given when they asked if he was a guest.

If they had just called the police without asking....you'd have a good point.

As it stands....you've got nothing.

He's a security guard....it's his job.

What do you mean "if"?!?!? I didn't make the rules for how 911 operates.

If someone broke into your home, and you barely get to call 911 before the intruder destroys your phone and ties you to a chair....my guess is that you'd be happy that the police will show up anyway.

They certainly could have....but it doesn't matter since we're talking about the reason why they called the police....not anything else that happened afterwards.

Obviously he was way out of line being on the phone and not wanting to be bothered. Obviously the police needed to be called in.

What people need to do you see is fall in line immediately or we call in the police you see. That's how hotels work right?

How dare he get mad!

Which is of course why the two men were fired, because it sure looked to everyone else that they were being both unreasonable and going way to far to harass a patron.

 

[SummerMadness]

You mean after the cops were called on him for just existing?



Why though? At that point they approached a guy who said he forgot his room number and immediately called the police. Kind of skipped a few steps. Then called the police, and when the guy demonstrated he had every right to be there, still kicked him out.

Jerk or no he was right and they were wrong and they had every reason to back down.

How dare he stand up for himself and not let people freely harass him.



They didn't though. Their reasoning was both wrong and their approach flawed for basic human interaction.



He was on his phone in the lobby (a common area where people who stay at the hotel are free to use) after returning to go to bed.

If he was there when he shouldn't be you have every right to kick him out but in this case they didn't give him any benefit of the doubt, they called the police before he even finished the call.

Why was he so suspicions you might ask? Were other people being asked to identify themselves and prove they belonged there you might ask?

The answer is that other people weren't so "suspicious" and they don't generally call the cops at the drop of a hat.



If you can't call 911 back then you shouldn't be so quick to call them in the first place.

Or you know, they could have apologized to the man staying at their hotel and informed the cops it was a false alarm.

It’s quite simple, if a black person is ever questioned, they must stop what they are doing and respond immediately. We need to make sure it is acceptable for them to be present there. It’s simply a by-product of the antebellum South where they routinely asked enslaved people for their permission papers.

That’s one of the refreshing things about traveling in Europe, there isn’t a constant demand for you to legitimize your presence. Unfortunately, in the US, there are many that believe black people must acquiesce to over-policing and stop being so uppity.

In a lobby on the phone in a hotel? It’s probably someone who is staying here. But I should check... oh, he’s on the phone. Let me wait for him to finish his call and ask. Nah, he needs to prove that he can be here! This is private property, we can’t have those people walking around as if they own everything!

 

[variant]

In a lobby on the phone in a hotel? It’s probably someone who is staying here. But I should check... oh, he’s on the phone. Let me wait for him to finish his call and ask. Nah, he needs to prove that he can be here! This is private property, we can’t have those people walking around as if they own everything!

I'm actually wondering how obnoxious I would have to be to be challenged by a security officer at a hotel I am staying at. I know how the conversation with the manager goes if the rent-a-cop guarding the place hassles me while I'm on an important phone call.