My Genesis 1 Bottleneck Event Challenge

[AV1611VET]

If you are referring to the creation of life on this planet in Genesis, that would be the opposite of a bottleneck, as it would be a massive increase in the diversity of life.

Yes.

I learned that it is called a "founder effect."

 

[Aman777]

Out of curiosity, do you think that the "protective tank" Noah lived in prior to the flood orbited the planet like the moon, or just floated suspended over a specific area? This, with the middle sphere representing the world of Noah (not to scale, this wouldn't fit in a lake).

Or more like this, suspended consistently over the same area, with the firmament around it, high enough that nothing below could reach it.

Either way, I think that'd make for an interesting view.

Neither. We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4 The Multiverse contains enormous quantities of heaven/air, ground/dust and water. Adam's entire Universe was placed under the water in the Multiverse Gen 1:6-7 which reminds me of a Submarine, since the Hebrew words show it had metallic like plates on the outside. Adam's flat Earth was inside the firmament, which protected it from the water which was above and below the firmament. IOW, Adam's SMALL firmament was totally immersed in Water showing that it was self-sufficient and completely transportable.

Our Cosmos was made in another part of the Multiverse, in the Dust. Our entire Universe is contained under the ground of the Multiverse. When the Universe is burned ll Peter 3:10, the smoke of unbelievers torment will go up forever Rev 14:11 trapped inside the ground of the Multiverse. IOW, our Universe is already buried in the ground of the Multiverse.

The only escape from our lost and dying Cosmos is to go with Jesus at the Rapture when we will mount up our wings as Eagles and fly to the 3rd Heaven/Air where we will live forever with Him there. It's where the streets are gold and the 12 gates are made of single Pearls. God Bless you

 

[lesliedellow]

Out of curiosity, do you think that the "protective tank" Noah lived in prior to the flood orbited the planet like the moon, or just floated suspended over a specific area?

More made up stuff, without any scientific or biblical basis?

 

[AV1611VET]

More made up stuff, without any scientific or biblical basis?

Care to vote?

This poll will be closing soon.

 

[Aman777]

More made up stuff, without any scientific or biblical basis?

False accusation. Tell us YOUR story of the beginning. I promise not to just give an overall criticism but also a complete Refute (prove wrong) your views.

 

[Aman777]

Care to vote?

This poll will be closing soon.

Some critics would rather not get into details but just vote NO on anything another posts. It keeps them from being embarrassed. God Bless you

 

[lesliedellow]

False accusation. Tell us YOUR story of the beginning. I promise not to just give an overall criticism but also a complete Refute (prove wrong) your views.

It is not a false accusation. As for my views about the physical origin of the universe, I am happy to assume that those who are professionally trained in the relevant fields have some idea of what they are talking about - or at least a much better idea than unqualified creationists, with a closed mind, pursuing a religious agenda.

 

[Aman777]

It is not a false accusation. As for my views about the physical origin of the universe, I am happy to assume that those who are professionally trained in the relevant fields have some idea of what they are talking about - or at least a much better idea than unqualified creationists, with a closed mind, pursuing a religious agenda.

Not me since I support my views with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History. I don't accept part-truths but the AGREEMENT of Faith plus Facts. Tell us the truth. Your believe mortal man's changeable Science is more reliable than God's Holy Word. Amen?

 

[lesliedellow]

Not me since I support my views with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History. I don't accept part-truths but the AGREEMENT of Faith plus Facts. Tell us the truth. Your believe mortal man's changeable Science is more reliable than God's Holy Word. Amen?

Yes the Bible is valuable, and it is the only divinely inspired text that we have got, but it is not there to supply us with scientific information, and I do not expect to find scientific information in it.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Adam's entire firmament, which God called Heaven, was only miles in diameter. It had only 4 rivers which all came from the same source. Gen 2:10 The flood was only 15 cubits deep (22.5 feet) when it covered the highest mountains on Adam's small flat Earth. Gen 7:20 All the animals died except those on the Ark which saved the common ancestors Jesus had made with His own Hands.

Lake Van is an enclosed Lake with NO outlets and home of only one kind of fish. It is a mile high in the mountains of Ararat, 75 miles wide and some 1500 feet deep. The firmament sank in the Lake releasing the 450 ft Ark into our world. That's God's Truth Scripturally.

Nope, I must have missed something here.... All of the domestic and wild animals we have today, are known to have a history to pretty much all other life on this planet, so why the need to have a mating pair of every animal on the ark if they're no different to the animals on planet earth here, complete with all the vestigial traits and dna mutations exactly like they accumulated over millions of years (and that'd have to be the case if they were to continue on with the existing life already here), despite not having souls or otherwise being unique to life already here?

So, another question then, is it that these animals weren't uniquely created by God in the firmament after all, but just copied over from the extant life already existing on earth at the time of Adam & Eve?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Care to vote?

This poll will be closing soon.

Pointless, so no. a majority of your polls are right up there with questions like - "If Universe creating pixies were proven real, would they be blue and smell like roses?"

 

[AV1611VET]

Pointless,

Looks like 11 people disagree.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Looks like 11 people disagree.

Pointless is my opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to their own, and in fact likely have reasons they want to participate that I don't know of. For all you know, those 11 might still agree it's pointless despite participating. This is the beauty of a free society. :}

 

[PsychoSarah]

More made up stuff, without any scientific or biblical basis?

Aman777 has the most... unique and interesting biblical interpretation I have ever read. I enjoy it, though I don't view it as an accurate representation of reality or the bible. I enjoy telling other people about it, which is why I have committed as much of his stuff to memory as I can. I am eager for any additions to it. It's the thrill of a great, bizarre story.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Neither. We live in a Multiverse. Gen 1:8 and Gen 2:4 The Multiverse contains enormous quantities of heaven/air, ground/dust and water. Adam's entire Universe was placed under the water in the Multiverse Gen 1:6-7 which reminds me of a Submarine, since the Hebrew words show it had metallic like plates on the outside. Adam's flat Earth was inside the firmament, which protected it from the water which was above and below the firmament. IOW, Adam's SMALL firmament was totally immersed in Water showing that it was self-sufficient and completely transportable.

Our Cosmos was made in another part of the Multiverse, in the Dust.

Seems to me that which is water and which is dust should be swapped, seeing as Genesis stated that Adam was made from dust. Seems to me it'd be more likely he'd come of a "universe of dust" rather than a "universe of water". Especially if the universe he lived in could dissolve in a lake.

Our entire Universe is contained under the ground of the Multiverse. When the Universe is burned ll Peter 3:10, the smoke of unbelievers torment will go up forever Rev 14:11 trapped inside the ground of the Multiverse. IOW, our Universe is already buried in the ground of the Multiverse.

Elaborate "ground of the Multiverse". As far as the current understanding of universes is, there isn't anything outside of universes. So much so, that even the concept of an outside perspective is invalid, as there isn't any space or time. That is, universes don't have borders around them, near as we can tell.

It also wouldn't make sense for a universe merging with another universe to only destroy one of the two, especially in such a mild way as to allow organisms within the decaying universe to survive and freely enter the other.

The only escape from our lost and dying Cosmos is to go with Jesus at the Rapture when we will mount up our wings as Eagles and fly to the 3rd Heaven/Air where we will live forever with Him there.

Wings? Like angels in art wings? Which actual angels in the bible do not have.

As for escaping our universe's eventual heat death and being immortal forever, I know of plenty of people that wouldn't want that. I'm entirely unsure if human psychology allows a person to be ok with an eternal life, and I am absolutely terrified of the end of my existence. It's not hard for stagnation to turn paradise into hell.

It's where the streets are gold and the 12 gates are made of single Pearls. God Bless you

How unfortunate that I find gold to be a vile color, and that its properties are poor for a street surface. It's much too soft. There is no heaven that would be pleasing to everyone. Heck, there'd always be those people that dislike for the sake of disliking.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Irrelevant thought.

I view attaching science to the actions of an omnipotent deity to be pointless, so I'd agree. It was more of a sort of "help" to anyone that wanted to try anyways.

It is similar to guess the early earth must have a lot of free oxygen because today we see a lot of tree and grass on the surface.

-_- you can actually measure that through ancient rock samples, since pockets of air can get trapped in crystals. For most of Earth's history, the atmosphere had less oxygen than it does currently.

Read the Revelation: In the Heaven, there are a lot of Trees of Life. What are they for? Read it.

Referring to Revelations 22? They are for healing people, and removing a curse. I assume the curse mentioned is the one that followed consuming the fruit of knowledge, although it is a bit unclear if consuming that fruit caused the curse or if it was inflicted by Yahweh. I lean towards the latter. Depending on which version of the bible you read, it can say there is one tree of life or multiple ones. In fact, most versions have it being a single, very large tree that spans both sides of a river in heaven. Are you reading the New Living Translation? Or is a different part of Revelations you want me to look at? Revelation 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Weird that it is the leaves of the tree/trees for healing and none of the 12 kinds of fruit coming from them.

 

[Aman777]

Yes the Bible is valuable, and it is the only divinely inspired text that we have got, but it is not there to supply us with scientific information, and I do not expect to find scientific information in it.

That's NOT the question. Is the Bible more reliable than changeable Science? Is Scripture True to Science or Not? IF Not, you have the wrong interpretation.

 

[Aman777]

Seems to me that which is water and which is dust should be swapped, seeing as Genesis stated that Adam was made from dust. Seems to me it'd be more likely he'd come of a "universe of dust" rather than a "universe of water". Especially if the universe he lived in could dissolve in a lake.

Adam's firmament wasn't a water universe, but was immersed in water. Gen 1:7 The present Cosmos isn't a dust universe but is within the vast quantity of earth without form, or dust, which God created in Genesis 1:1. The 3rd Heaven, the New Heaven and New Earth of Rev 21:1 is in the Air or Heaven.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

*** Elaborate "ground of the Multiverse". As far as the current understanding of universes is, there isn't anything outside of universes. So much so, that even the concept of an outside perspective is invalid, as there isn't any space or time. That is, universes don't have borders around them, near as we can tell.

Adam's universe/firmament was much much smaller than the present world. It had a metallic boundary which protected it from the water into which it was placed. The present Universe is bounded by the Cosmic Radiation Background within the ground without form or dust, which totally surrounds us. Physicists have equations which show that there are some eleven universes within the Multiverse.

*** It also wouldn't make sense for a universe merging with another universe to only destroy one of the two, especially in such a mild way as to allow organisms within the decaying universe to survive and freely enter the other.

The present sinful universe cannot escape the ground/earth it is buried inside. It will remain in the ground forever along with the "worms" which are left inside it. Jesus said:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

*** Wings? Like angels in art wings? Which actual angels in the bible do not have.

Agreed, but I can hardly wait to fly.

*** As for escaping our universe's eventual heat death and being immortal forever, I know of plenty of people that wouldn't want that. I'm entirely unsure if human psychology allows a person to be ok with an eternal life, and I am absolutely terrified of the end of my existence. It's not hard for stagnation to turn paradise into hell.

We won't be just Humans then. We will be God's children, living in immortal bodies, with the ability to know everything God knows. He chooses to live forever and He's lived for Billions of years. When we know what He knows, I'm sure that we will also prefer eternal life to eternal death.

*** How unfortunate that I find gold to be a vile color, and that its properties are poor for a street surface. It's much too soft. There is no heaven that would be pleasing to everyone. Heck, there'd always be those people that dislike for the sake of disliking.

Amen, I prefer silver but it doesn't matter what the streets are made of since we will be able to fly over them instead of walking on them. Oh happy Day! Amen?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Adam's universe/firmament was much much smaller than the present world. It had a metallic boundary which protected it from the water into which it was placed. The present Universe is bounded by the Cosmic Radiation Background within the ground without form or dust, which totally surrounds us. Physicists have equations which show that there are some eleven universes within the Multiverse.

The universe isn't bounded by the cosmic background radiation. In fact, if I recall correctly, space itself expands faster than energy does, so the outer limits of the background radiation that is spreading out don't even mark the size of our universe. The radiation also absolutely has form: energy. Also, we have not detected other universes conclusively, and you might be confusing universes with dimensions with that 11 number. Dimensions as they apply to our own universe. Like 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional, not other worlds or whatnot.

The present sinful universe cannot escape the ground/earth it is buried inside. It will remain in the ground forever along with the "worms" which are left inside it. Jesus said:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

This does not address my point that it wouldn't make sense for two universes interacting to only have destructive consequences for one of them. Just the clash of two universes is considered a possible way universes can be generated; what a massive amount of energy.

Agreed, but I can hardly wait to fly.

On paper, flight sounds fun. But then you realize that the majority of humanity is afraid of heights.

We won't be just Humans then. We will be God's children, living in immortal bodies, with the ability to know everything God knows. He chooses to live forever and He's lived for Billions of years. When we know what He knows, I'm sure that we will also prefer eternal life to eternal death.

So you think that the god you believe in could die if it wanted to. That's interesting. Although, said deity being content with its long life could be a matter of its perspective rather than it actually being psychologically capable of enduring indefinitely. To such a being, 1000 years could be a second. That would mean said being would perceive the entire 4.6 billion years Earth has existed the same way you would perceive 53 days. Heck, you have said that every day of creation is a billion years or some such similar item, I do not recall entirely, which would make the difference in time perception even more drastic.

Amen, I prefer silver but it doesn't matter what the streets are made of since we will be able to fly over them instead of walking on them. Oh happy Day! Amen?

Silver and purple are my favorite colors. Not much purpose in having streets if people aren't going to use them, fill the area with greenery instead XD

My "ideal heaven" isn't one of gems, precious metals, or mansions. It is one of me being able to cultivate a great variety of odd plants at my leisure, without it getting in the way of my friends and family. It's a hobby that isn't truly enjoyable without the challenges these plants pose, so making them all easy would defeat the point. My personal favorite, Nepenthes aristolochioides, currently requires conditions I cannot provide, and is critically endangered. I dare not get one, least I kill it.

I love these little birdhouses of insect doom.

I find it odd that some theists think atheists can't imagine a personal ideal afterlife. I absolutely can, down to tiny details. I just don't think it exists, but if it does, let me have the chance to cultivate the plants I couldn't while alive! XD

 

[lesliedellow]

That's NOT the question. Is the Bible more reliable than changeable Science? Is Scripture True to Science or Not? IF Not, you have the wrong interpretation.

I don't use science to validate the Bible, or the Bible to validate science. Theology and science are engaged upon completely different projects.

It is true that God does not change his mind, and it is true that scientific theories are always subject to revision in the light of new information. So what?