My Genesis 1 Bottleneck Event Challenge

[Kylie]

Now you know why I called it a "modified founder effect," don't you?

There was no reduction in population -- just the opposite.

The population started out as one person, then it doubled, then it took off from there.

Given that the founder effect describes a lack of genetic variation which was not the case (otherwise Adam and Eve's descendants would have been hideously inbred), I fail to see how the term "modified founder effect" can be applied. It lacks the defining feature! By this logic, I can claim a shopping trolley is a modified aeroplane.

 

[AV1611VET]

I fail to see how the term "modified founder effect" can be applied.

It has the population of a bottleneck event (without the event), but with the robustness of a bottleneck recovery.

In better terms, God created Adam & Eve with perfect genes then, on top of that, blessed them with fruitfulness (robustness).

 

[Colter]

The earth was already populated when Adam and Eve appear in the creation story. Cain knew there were people out in the world, God agreed, he put a mark on Cain lest anyone who found him would kill him. These facts left in the scripture by subsequent editors validate Old earth, preadamic man.

 

[AV1611VET]

The earth was already populated when Adam and Eve appear in the creation story.

The only person mentioned by name on the earth before Adam & Eve was Lucifer.

Ezekiel 28:13a Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

Cain ...

... came after Genesis 1.

 

[Colter]

The only person mentioned by name on the earth before Adam & Eve was Lucifer.

Ezekiel 28:13a Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

... came after Genesis 1.

You are wrong again. The Latin name “Lucifer” didn’t appear until the 4th century in Jeromes Vulgate translation.


The fact that Cain feared people out away from his parents was left in the record:

13Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”


God agrees with Cain’s concern:

15But the Lord said to him, “Not soe ; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,f east of Eden.

But young creationist and bible worshipers must deliberately ignore what is in plain site.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are wrong again. The Latin name “Lucifer” didn’t appear until the 4th century in Jeromes Vulgate translation.

How do you know?

No one on earth was named Lucifer until the 4th century?

Not even a dog, or a bird, or anything?

And Jerome just happened to stumble upon a writing that had the first-ever name of Lucifer in it?

I don't think so, chief.

The fact that Cain feared people out away from his parents was left in the record:

That's right.

What's your point?

Adam & Eve had Cain and Abel and a host of others.

Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

And all this host of others had hosts of others who had hosts of others.

So by the time Cain kills Abel, there's a host of others x a host of others on the earth.

It's basic math.

Notice that, just before the killing, we read this:

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Are you telling me that, in that process of time, Adam & Eve, who were blessed with fertility and told to replenish the earth, had no children?

I mean ... seriously?

If you were told to fill a sack up with potatoes, and you put two potatoes in the sack and then stopped, what would your employer think?

You think like a scientist, don't you?

Can't do math, move the decimal point as needed, move time back by four years to make it look like Jesus was born before His time, etc. and so on.

Yup ... I smell a Ph.D. here.

 

[Colter]

How do you know?

No one on earth was named Lucifer until the 4th century?

Not even a dog, or a bird, or anything?

And Jerome just happened to stumble upon a writing that had the first-ever name of Lucifer in it?

I don't think so, chief.

That's right.

What's your point?

Adam & Eve had Cain and Abel and a host of others.

Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

And all this host of others had hosts of others who had hosts of others.

So by the time Cain kills Abel, there's a host of others x a host of others on the earth.

It's basic math.

Notice that, just before the killing, we read this:

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Are you telling me that, in that process of time, Adam & Eve, who were blessed with fertility and told to replenish the earth, had no children?

I mean ... seriously?

If you were told to fill a sack up with potatoes, and you put two potatoes in the sack and then stopped, what would your employer think?

You think like a scientist, don't you?

Can't do math, move the decimal point as needed, move time back by four years to make it look like Jesus was born before His time, etc. and so on.

Yup ... I smell a Ph.D. here.

You said Lucifer was the first name in the Bible, it was added in the fourth century.

In the chronology of Genesis Cain is implied to be Eves first born. If Cain had siblings prior to his birth that rushed out to the world and would harm him as a restless wonderer of the earth if he came along, that contorted assumption isn’t in the scripture for the simple fact that it’s tortured apologetics.

 

[Kylie]

It has the population of a bottleneck event (without the event), but with the robustness of a bottleneck recovery.

So you are saying that there was NO event?

Why was the population that low?

In better terms, God created Adam & Eve with perfect genes then, on top of that, blessed them with fruitfulness (robustness).

Perfect genes? Why did they disobey God then? Why didn't God give them perfect genes for obedience?

 

[AV1611VET]

So you are saying that there was NO event?

My vote is public.

All you had to do is click on the results and see that I voted NO.

 

[Kylie]

My vote is public.

All you had to do is click on the results and see that I voted NO.

Which criteria for bottleneck event that you provided do you feel is lacking from Gen 1?

 

[AV1611VET]

Which criteria for bottleneck event that you provided do you feel is lacking from Gen 1?

I'm asking if you see a bottleneck event in Genesis 1.

 

[Kylie]

I'm asking if you see a bottleneck event in Genesis 1.

Stop trying to change the subject.

You provided a list of criteria for a bottleneck event. Namely, a population at an all time low and a population robust enough to survive extinction.

Both of these criteria were met, and yet you still claim that it was not a bottleneck event. Is there some other criteria which was not met? If so, what was it? But if ALL the criteria for a bottleneck event are met, then it's a bottleneck event whether you like it or not.

 

[AV1611VET]

Stop trying to change the subject.

Don't worry.

I'm finished with your third-degree inquisition.

If you don't want to vote, don't.

You can wake your husband up and tell him I'm finished with your gestapo tactics.

 

[Kylie]

Don't worry.

I'm finished with your third-degree inquisition.

If you don't want to vote, don't.

You can wake your husband up and tell him I'm finished with your gestapo tactics.

So, I'll take it that the question was too difficult for you to answer? Face it, AV, the event of Genesis 1 fits your criteria of a bottleneck event. You can either admit it, or provide a different set of criteria.