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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    Do you mean that anyone inside their borders is a Jew?
  2. Oseas

    Oseas Well-Known Member


    Jesus left very very clear to the Jewish people. “I am the vine and you are the branches. Those who stay united with me, and I with them, are the ones who bear much fruit; because apart from me you can’t do a thing.
    Unless a person remains united with me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up. Such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, where they are burned up. (Yes, they are burned up. These words will fulfil LITERALLY now in this beginning of this first century of the seventh and and last millennium or last Day, the Day of the Lord, and Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, and the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Millenium of Vengeance, the Last Millenium.)

  3. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. The Kingdom taken away from Israel was the propagating of the gospel. The church now propagates the gospel. This is the church age not Old Covenant or the Kingdom age.
    Israel stumbled over the rock of offense which was Jesus the cornerstone.

    2. Roman's 9:27 doesn't say only a remnant shall be saved. It says a remnant shall be saved. It takes more than a remnant to be United with the other stick so two sticks can be one Ezekiel 37:16-28.
    There will be the believing remnant of Israel's seed Revelation 12:17. The woman will be saved later at the end of the tribulation so Ezekiel 37:16-28 and Hebrews 8:7-13 can be fulfilled.

    3. I never said all Israelites were equal. Roman's 2 said the true Jews is the one who believes in spiritual circumcision.
    Zechariah 13:9 says 2/3 of Jewish rebels will be cut off.
    So I don't really know Christians you are talking about that believe all Jews are equal.

    4. Unbelieving Jews, especially the leaders thought they had the goods because fleshwise they were Abraham's seed but Jesus told them they didn't even do what Moses commanded. Many of the leaders were already apostates Matthew 12. Sons of the devil they were.
    They thought they belonged to God the Father but yet refused to believe the son who did the father's will.

    5. Israel has to be purged and come back to God Daniel 9:24-27 before they can receive the kingdom gifts and callings which are eternal Romans 11:25-29.
    The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants are eternal upon the condition of the whole nation repenting. This concerns the land Genesis 12-15 and the house and throne of David 2 Samuel 7:13-16 and 1 Chronicles 28:1-8.
    God declared and promised Israel these things eternally. But the stipulation is they have to Repent and that will not happen until the end of the tribulation and that generation will repent.

    6. Galatians talks about the Abrahamic promises which is salvation under the New Covenant.
    This correlates with Romans 9 and the children of promise for both Jew and Gentile can be saved and are now in one body Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.
    One has to keep the kingdom promises specific to Israel in the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants separate from the church's part.
    Salvation was to be for all men and at Calvary it happened.
    This was because of the part of Abraham's covenant concerning salvation which was righteousness by faith and not the Mosaic law and by grace not of works.
    The kingdom program with Israel and salvation for all men are two different subjects. Confuse them and you will always stay confused.
    Israel has a different calling than the church but we are all one in Christ and can only be saved by the New Covenant. Jerry kelso
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    Based on Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled during the first century.

    The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. In Romans 11:25-29 the Apostle Paul reveals that the branches broken off of the Olive Tree can be grafted back in through faith in Christ. The Greek word "houto" in verse 26 is the "manner" of their salvation. You have turned that word into "then" or "when" in order to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

    The word "remnant" in Romans 9:27 cannot mean "the whole nation", as you claim above.

    In Galatians 3:16 we find that the Abrahamic covenant applies to only the One Seed, who is Christ.
    You have just replaced the One Seed, with the many seeds.

  5. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    British Israelism claims their is a difference between a Hebrew and a Jew and there is not.
    They do this to prove replacement theology. It was started years ago by Herbert W. Armstrong and Ted his son in their Church of God denomination.
    Do you believe in British-Israelism? Jerry kelso
  6. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. You can't refute what I said, all you can do is disagree.

    2. Acts 10:38 Jesus did fulfill. That was even part of the KoH message in which he gave the same power Matthew 10:6-8. That was still under the Old Covenant period.

    3. Hebrews 10:16-18; This is talking about the law as a shadow of good things to come. The New replaced the Old.
    Jesus Christ became our High Priest intecessor at the right hand of the father.
    This will happen till his enemies are made his footstool which is after the 1000 years. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
    Hebrews 10:16; this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, smith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts and in their minds will I write them verse 17; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    Verse 18: Now where remission of these is, there is no more sin.
    Verse 19: having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Verse 20; by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say his flesh and having a high priest over the house of God.

    4. Hebrews 10 context is not in the KoH program.
    Verse 16 did not address the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It left out about all Israel knowing God and not being taught. The whole book was a teaching so Israel could understand why the law was abolished and what was abolished etc. Even with all this Paul they wouldn't listen and he went to the Gentiles Acts 28.
    The covenant was made in Jeremiah with Israel and came true for whatever Jews believed but even at that it was not under the kingdom program and it wasn't all Israel and Judah.
    This is what I mean that you see buzz words and seem to be saying the same thing and you automatically make it the whole context when it is not.
    See you take part of the context and make it the whole and it don't work.
    Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 are the same. They were to the house of Israel and Judah which has not been made for all of Israel for God didn't put his law into the whole nation's hearts and mind and they didn't have God and were not his people as a whole. They didn't all know the Lord from the least to the greatest.
    If this would have happened the KoH reign would have begun and the curse would have been lifted from the land Joel 2.
    If the covenant would have happened at Calvary the kingdom would have begun and the Gentiles would have been saved by Israel as the salt of the earth and light of the world and there would have been no church age.

    I have to go but I'll be back to address your olive tree confusion. Jerry kelso
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    I'm not the one who said "All of Israel and Judah are Jews."

    So what did you mean?
  8. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

    1. Post #533; you seem to believe the whole world is ethnically Jewish and you are wrong.
    You are trying to reinforce replacement theology which is not scriptural. All the house of Israel and Judah will become one stick and will be believers in the kingdom program with Israel not gentiles from the church. Jerry kelso
  9. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    Was this for BABerean2 or me?

    If for me, my question remains unanswered.

    You said "All of Israel and Judah are Jews."

    You then said that did not mean everyone within their borders.

    So who does it mean?
  10. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. Your name is on it.
    All of the house of Israel and the house of Judah in the kingdom will all be ethnic Jews that are believers being saved by the New Covenant.
    Jerry kelso
  11. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. The olive tree is about Israel the root rejecting Christ and how the Gentiles were grafted in to make them jealous.
    Israel has a remnant of grace.
    Paul is sad and concerned about the whole nation and he is glad there is a remnant and tells the Gentiles to not get prideful because they could meet judgement just like the unbelieving Jews.
    Israel can be grafted in their own vine by God. If the Gentiles were grafted in so much more can Israel be.
    Paul lets the Gentiles know that despite Israel having a remnant there is a mystery concerning Israel he wants them to know.
    Lest the Gentiles be wise in their own conceits that blindness is part in Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
    Paul is talking about the nation of Israel's unbelievers not the remnant.
    It will be when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
    This proves that the remnant of Israel will not be the only Jews that will be saved in the future.
    The fullness of the Gentiles has to be at the second coming Revelation 11:15.
    It wasn't in Paul's day, can't be at the rapture of the church because Gentiles will be saved in the tribulation.

    2. Verse 26 is in the same context as verse 25.
    the manner of being saved is both physical and spiritual.
    Physical because the nations of the world will try to annihilate Israel and Christ will come out of Heaven with his saints and destroy the enemy at Armageddon and turn away the ungodliness from Jacob and their sin which is part of the covenant with Israel.
    The remnant will be saved in the tribulation and the rest of the nation will be saved when Christ comes back on the Day of the Lord.
    Once again you forget about the whole context and that is why you stay blinded to the truth. Jerry kelso
  12. Oseas

    Oseas Well-Known Member

    You wrote: >>>1. The Kingdom taken away from Israel was the propagating of the gospel. The church now propagates the gospel....<<<
    Yes, remembering what JESUS said: "I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes"Mat.10:23. JESUS did know that the nation of Israel would go to be devasted and destroyed from the year 70 to 1.948, there would be no cities to go through it for 1,878 years of punishment in exile, in fulfillment of the plagues written in Deut. 28: 15-68. Furthermore, there would not be any chance of the manifestation of the messiah which the Jews are waiting until the present time, which in truth is a false messiah, an imposter, an usurper, even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and alying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    >>>... This is the church age not Old Covenant or the Kingdom age....<<<
    It seems that your argument has nothing to do with the present time, about the Old Covenant, JESUS left very clear saying: "All the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the KINGDOM OF GOD suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." There will be ONLY ONE Universal KINGDOM of God, not two, as being one exclusively of Israel. The Apostle Paul clarify us saying: (Eph.2:13-16CJB) 13 But now, you who were once far off have been brought near through the shedding of the Messiah’s blood. 14 For he himself is our shalomhe has MADE US BOTH ONE and has broken down the m’chitzah which divided us 15 by — DESTROYING in his own body the enmity occasioned by the Torah, with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom, 16 and in order to reconcile to God both in a single body by being executed on a stake as a criminal and thus in himself killing that enmity.

    And the author of Hebrews reveals, speaking of JESUS: (Heb.10:4-10) 4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.
    5 This is why, on coming into the world, he says, “It has not been your will
    to have an animal sacrifice and a meal offering; rather, you have prepared for me a body.
    6 No, you have not been pleased with burnt offerings and sin offerings.
    7 Then I said, ‘Look! In the scroll of the book it is written about me. I have come to do your will.’”
    8 In saying first, “You neither willed nor were pleased with animal sacrifices, meal offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings,” things which are offered in accordance with the Torah;
    9 and then, “Look, I have come to do your will”
    ; he takes away the first system in order to set up the second. (The NEW TESTAMENT)
    10 It is in connection with this will that we have been separated for God and made holy, once and for all, through the offering of Yeshua the Messiah’s body.

    Well, By using the term, “new,” he has made the first covenant “old”; and something being made old, something in the process of aging, is on its way to vanishing altogether. Heb.8:13CJB Yes, it is ready to vanish away very very soon.

    >>>Israel stumbled over the rock of offense which was Jesus the cornerstone. <<<
    JESUS came to his own and they received him not, they preferred Barabbas, a robber, a demon, a son of Devil, instead the son of God, JESUS Christ.
    Barabbas is a prototype of the false messiah which will manifest himself in the days ahead. The Jews are waiting the manifestion of their messiah, they are not waiting JESUS. JESUS prophesied about this satanic event: (John 5:v.43KJV) I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER(a false messiah, an imposter, an usurper) shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. Oh yes, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders (2The.2:9-12&Revelation 13:11-18) 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish (Jewish or Gentile); because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Not so far fron these days, there will be two BEASTS reigning in the Earth, the Beast which rose up out of the sea(Gentile peoples), place in the Vatican City, and the BEAST which will yet rise out of the earth (Israel) in the days ahead, the false messiah, which will be enthroned in the temple of God, in the earthly and great city of Jerusalem, whose city, spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Take a care. Be careful. He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
  13. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    According to your interpretation of Romans 11:26, will all ethnic Jews eventually be believers and be saved?
  14. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    New Zealand
    This statement is one of your many errors. The Prophets always carefully distinguished between the House of Israel and the House of Judah. They are mentioned separately over 160 times in the Bible.
    They separated in King Rehaboam's time and remain apart today. The Jewish people consist of only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, a few people of the other tribes did assimilate with them, as well as foreigners; as is still happening today.
    The ten Northern tribes remain scattered round the world, Deuteronomy 28:63-67 and who exactly they all are, only God knows. Amos 9:9 But it does seem that the majority of them have become Christian, as that was what Jesus said He had come to do. Matthew 15:24, John 10:16 His mission did not fail, as all the disciples went out to the world and we Christians are the result.
    Your scathing remarks about British Israelism, just shows your bias against anything that doesn't fit your 'rapture to heaven' belief. They did have the leadership role of Britain wrong, but their research does prove that the Western nations do have an Israelite foundation. The waymarks [dolmens] across Europe are proof. Jeremiah 31:21
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  15. Oseas

    Oseas Well-Known Member

    The Spirit of Christ JESUS was and is the Spirit of prophecy, JESUS never spoke under hypothetical condition, absolutely, He is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. JESUS did know the total destruction of the nation of Israel in the year 70, and the Jewish people would go to be spread around the world until 1.948, so 1.878 years of exile, without their land and without any possibility of manifestation of another messiah, in fulfilment all kind of plagues and punishments written by Moses in Deut. 28:15-68.

    The return of Israel unto their land in 1.948 was permitted to fulfil other prophec
    ies written about Israel, among which the birth of the false messiah, a Jewish and not a Gentile man, of course, in truth he is the son of perdition (he is called a son because he is a Jew and not a Gentile man), inclusive his manifestation in the days ahead is not so far from these days, in truth he must be revealed in his own time as was prophesied by Jeremiah 8: 3-7CJB : 3 All the survivors of this evil family who REMAIN wherever I have driven them will prefer death to life,” says Adonai-Tzva’ot.
    4 “You are to tell them that Adonai says: ‘If a person falls, doesn’t he get up again? If someone goes astray, doesn’t he turn back?
    5 Why do these people keep backsliding? Why is their backsliding so persistent?
    They cling to deceit and refuse to return!
    6 I listened attentively but they spoke nothing right. No one repents of his wickedness, saying, “What have I done!” Each runs off in his own direction, like a horse plunging headlong into battle.

    7 Storks in the sky know their seasons; doves, swallows and cranes their migration times; but my people do not know the rulings of Adonai!

    and the Apostle Paul said: (2Th.2:v.6and9to12CJB) 9 When this man who avoids Torah comes, the Adversary (the Devil) will give him the power to work all kinds of false miracles, signs and wonders. (Yes, this powerful false messiah comes possessed by the spirit of the DEVIL, the own Satan, a former Cherub) 10 He will enable him to deceive, in all kinds of wicked ways, those who are headed for destruction because they would not receive the love of the truth (they received not JESUS as their true Messiah) that could have saved them. 11 This is why God is causing them to go astray, so that they will believe the Lie. 12 The result will be that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken their pleasure in wickedness, will be condemned.

    This will be the last punishment of the nation of the carnal Israel in the present time, in truth the FINAL and eternal punishiment of Israel.

    JESUS came to his own and they received him not, they preferred Barabbas, a robber, a demon, a son of Devil, a prototype of the false messiah, instead the son of God, JESUS Christ. Jeremiah prophesied about the people of Israel saying: All the survivors of this evil family who REMAIN wherever I have driven them will prefer death to life,” says Adonai-Tzva’ot. Jer.8:3
  16. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. There is nothing wrong with my statement.
    The promise was made with Israel and is unconditionally eternal conditioned by obedience.
    This means they have to repent and receive their gifts and callings which is in conjunction with them receiving the kingdom.
    God promised David's house and throne would be forever and mercy would not depart from him like Saul.

    2. No matter how much God has said he would make them desolate he would not make an end of them.

    3. I have already said the house of Israel would still be separated from Judah and God till the end of the tribulation Roman's 11:25-29.

    4. This is the church age and Jews are a part of the church. They are supposed to be Christians.

    5. You don't read very well, I said even if there were no rapture Israel would still receive their gifts and callings.
    There are Americans and others that have Jewish ancestry etc. and that makes no difference.
    There won't be no confusion about what Jew belongs to what tribe and be a real saved Jew and not a Gentile. Revelation 7 proves that. You are just building up straw men to boost your theory and it don't agree with scripture. Jerry kelso
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    New Zealand
    This shows where you go wrong.
    Belief that race and ethnicity still has anything to do with salvation and who will receive the Promises and Blessings of God, contradicts the entire message of Jesus. ...ALL who believe in Him, shall have eternal life. John 3:16
    Read and understand Ephesians 2:11-18. Then know that the nonsense of a Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the rapture lie.
    Who will inherit the holy Land? The Lord's faithful Christian people, from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 37:28-29, Ephesians 3:6, +
  18. Oseas

    Oseas Well-Known Member

    QUOTE="jerry kelso, post: 71771832, member: 326861"]. I have already said the house of Israel would still be separated from Judah and God till the end of the tribulation Roman's 11:25-29.[/QUOTE]

    The question is that the period of tribulation will begin through Israel, with the manifestation of the false messiah of the Jews not so far from these days. The Jews are waiting the manifestation of their messiah, not JESUS, then there will be two BEASTS reigning in the Earth, one in the Vatican city and another in the great city of Jerusalem, whose city is "spirituallly called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified" Rev.11:v.8. Both BEASTS will make a treat to build a religious and Universal Empire (Judaism and Catholicism), as was revealed to Daniel (Dan.2:41-43), whose Empire is figured in the feet and 10 toes of the great image (symbol of the 10 tribes of Israel). Who will reign the first 42 months will be the BEAST of Vatican city (Rev.13:4-5), which received power of the false messiah, who has two horns like a lamb and speaks as a dragon (Rev.13:11-12). These things will fulfil itself LITERALLY in this beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or last Day, that is the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, and the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Millennium of Vengeance, the Last millennium.
    On the other hand, about the house of Israel and Judah, what the Word of God reveals of those two houses is the follow:

    1Kings 12:16-19CJB
    16 When all Isra’el saw that the king wasn’t listening to them, the people answered the king,

    “Do we have any share in David?
    We have no heritage in the son of Yishai!

    Go to your tents, Isra’el!
    Care for your own house, David!”
    So Isra’el left for their tents.
    17 But as for the people of Isra’el living in the cities of Y’hudah, Rechav‘am ruled over them.
    18 King Rechav‘am then sent Adoram, who was in charge of forced labor; but all Isra’el stoned him to death. King Rechav‘am managed to mount his chariot and flee to Yerushalayim.
    Isra’el has been in rebellion against the dynasty of David to this day. (This explains why they refused JESUS. The lineage of JESUS is of the house of David or dynasty of David.)

    2Kings 14: 26-27CJB

    26 For Adonai saw how bitterly Isra’el had suffered, with no one left, either slave or free, and no one coming to Isra’el’s aid. 27 Adonai did not threaten to blot out the name of Isra’el from under heaven, but saved them through Yarov‘am the son of Yo’ash.

    2Kings 17:18-23CJB
    13 Adonai had warned Isra’el and Y’hudah in advance through every prophet and seer, “
    Turn from your evil ways; and obey my mitzvot and regulations, in accordance with the entire Torah which I ordered your ancestors to keep and which I sent to you through my servants the prophets.” 14 Nevertheless, they refused to listen but made themselves as stubborn as their ancestors, who did not put their trust in Adonai their God. 15 Thus they rejected his laws; his covenant, which he had made with their ancestors; and the solemn warnings he had given them. Instead they pursued worthless things and became worthless themselves, imitating the nations around them, whom Adonai had ordered them not to emulate. 16 They abandoned all the mitzvot of Adonai their God. They made cast metal images for themselves, two calves. They made an asherah. They worshipped the whole army of heaven. They served Ba‘al. 17 They had their sons and daughters pass through fire [as a sacrifice]. They used divination and magic spells. And they gave themselves over to do what was evil from Adonai’s perspective, thereby provoking him; 18 so that Adonai, by now very angry with Isra’el, removed them from his sight. None was left except the tribe of Y’hudah alone. 19 (However, neither did Y’hudah obey the mitzvot of Adonai their God; rather they lived according to the customs of Isra’el.)
    20 Yes, Adonai came to despise all the descendants of Isra’el. He caused them trouble and handed them over to plunderers, until finally he threw them out of his sight. 21 He tore Isra’el away from the house of David. They made Yarov‘am the son of N’vat king; and Yarov‘am drew Isra’el away from following Adonai and made them commit a great sin. 22 The people of Isra’el followed the example of all the sins that Yarov‘am had committed and did not turn away from them, 23 until Adonai removed Isra’el out of his sight, as he had said he would through all his servants the prophets. Thus Isra’el was carried away captive from their own land and it remains so to this day.
  19. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. Quit accusing me of saying things I didn't say.
    I never said salvation hinged on race and ethnicity. You are dreaming.
    Salvation was for all men at all times.
    The Gentiles didn't have a covenant like Israel but they always had opportunity to be saved.
    Please don't lie about that again.

    2. The promises of the gifts and callings concerning Israel and the land in the Holy land in the KoH reign and the house of David and the throne of David and Jerusalem being the capital of the earth and being at the head of the nations and Israel administering the feasts and the families of the earth being blessed from Israel is because God made the promise eternal unconditionally for Israel, not the Church.
    Don't lie about that again.
    Salvation of the soul has nothing to do with race or ethnicity ever.
    It is only by the grace of God, his unmerited favor that any man including you and me.
    So don't lie again about that.

    3. Ephesians 2:11-18; This is talking about the Gentiles being included in the New Covenant because the wall of partition being torn down between Jews and Gentiles.
    I told you the kingdom program with the nation of Israel was put off temporarily because they rejected Christ in his ministry which was under the Old Covenant.
    Jeremiah 31 prophesied that Judah and Israel would receive the New Covenant and this didn't happen.
    Verse 27; behold the days come saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and withthe seed of the beast.
    This never happened when Christ died and rose again or in the church age yet and will not until the end of the tribulation.
    Also Ezekiel 36 is all about Israel being taken from the heathen and gathered out of all countries and brought into their own land. God will sprinkle them with clean water and give them a mew heart and a new spirit etc.
    There was no regathering from other countries in the early church.
    This is why you have to keep the kingdom program with Israel and the church age separate.
    The ones of the house of Israel in the early church that got saved was not the whole house, had nothing to with the millennial kingdom.
    Ephesians 2:11-18 and 3:3-6
    was the mystery of the church which was birthed at the cross but didn't come to understanding and fruition till Peter got the vision of the clean and unclean; Jews and Gentiles on the same level.
    Jews and Gentiles are one in the body of Christ.
    The body of Christ is raptured and Israel is left on the earth because they are still a backslidden nation and will be in the tribulation.

    4. Jewish redemption has to with the whole nation believing in Messiah so they can receive their gifts and callings for the Kingdom.
    Ezekiel 36:22 says God will do this not for Israel's sake because they profaned his name among the heathen. He said he will do it for his holy name's sake.
    This means God's name is on the dotted line. God has to sanctify his great name which Israel profaned among the heathens. Why? So they will know that he is the Lord when God sanctifies Israel before the heathens eyes.
    So don't lie about no redemption for Israel again.
    Even though I believe in the law rapture of the church, Israel's end time redemption and kingdom promises and gifts and callings will still be fulfilled if there is no rapture.
    Now don't lie about this again!

    5. Revelation 5:9-10 is being stated in Heaven not the earth and is prophetic to what will happen on earth.
    Isaiah 66:18 b-21 that is on earth after the Day of the Lord. This has nothing to do with the church not being in Heaven before the tribulation.
    Psalm 37:28-29; these verses have to with Israel being preserved forever and the wicked being cut off.
    The righteous shall inherit the land was talking about Israel. This is why Jesus said Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
    The church will have rule around the universe Colossians 1:16 not just the earth.
    Ephesians 3:6;
    We are fellow heirs and partakers of the gospel which is salvation.
    The church is forever, but has nothing to do with God giving the gifts and callings to Israel and not the same ones to the church.
    God said he was going to sanctify Israel before the heathen's eye for his name's sake not for Israel.
    It couldn't be the church for the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. The true church is not backslidden and doesn't have to be purged from sin.
    So please lying about this.
    Show me a scripture in context that the church has to go through the time of Jacob's trouble and be purged from sin! And show me where the church has to be regathered anywhere! I'll stop here and I'll be waiting to see you answer these questions truthfully and scripturally in proper context. Jerry kelso
  20. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    New Zealand
    To accuse others of lying, when it is only that people question your beliefs , is a seriously bad and unchristian thing to do. All can see your lowdown and overly critical attitude and it counts against you.

    The church DOES have to face the Great Tribulation, at least that part of the Church that must: Revelation 12:17
    The Christians who have proved their faith, will be taken to a place of safety: Revelation 12:14
    They all must be in the holy Land already before this. Proved by Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7

    What you constantly do is make the Jewish people to be all of Israel. This is not correct, as they are just two of the twelve tribes. Don't say they have all rejoined now, as the great prophecy of Ezekiel 37 has NOT been fulfilled yet. Just read that chapter; the Jews surely do not fulfil Ezekiel 37:23-24.
    So are the Jewish Israelis meek? You display great ignorance and extreme bias in your worthless opinions.