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Featured MORE RAPTURE QUESTIONS

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. WailingWall

    WailingWall Regular Member

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    On another thread i asked if you can find in scripture that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye that we go to heaven after meeting the Lord in the air. No such scripture was found. I would like to ask a few more questions


    1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

    MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

    ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

    The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

    So. What about it. Is the "last trumpet" really the last trumpet as the scriptures point out. How do the Rapturist get around these scriptures?
     
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  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  3. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  4. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    What makes you think the "great trumpet" in Isaiah 27 equates to the last trumpet of Revelation?
     
  5. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Here is what I would suggest, adopt the anytime rapture view - which avoids the whole - "7 year advanced countdown to the rapture" argument you are making all together - should you be wrong.

    In the anytime rapture view, the rapture takes place "anytime" between now and when it actually happens.
     
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  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    We should be trying to make connections between different passages in scripture which do not produce conflict and therefore confirm the whole.
    That is what you are doing now.


    The pretrib doctrine works by doing the opposite.
    It grabs a verse here and puts it together with a verse from another location while ignoring all of the text which shows the doctrine to be in error.


    It takes "the time of Jacob's trouble" out of its historical context during the Babylonian captivity and casts it over 2,000 years into the future.

    It denies that Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled during the first century, even though Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18 prove otherwise.

    It cannot come to grips with the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. Why? Because it destroys the distinctions between Israel and the Church. Even though Paul addressed the crowd as Israelites on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:36, they must ignore the verse or lose their "Gentile Church".

    It screams "Replacement Theology", while it replaces the One Seed with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16, and replaces the children of the promise with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8. It replaces the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, with the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26, to produce a future time of salvation for the modern State of Israel.

    They also have to ignore "the time of the judgment of the dead", which is explained by Christ in John 5:27-30, and is found right after the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11:18. This proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. It is made up of a series of overlapping visions. Christ returns "as a thief" at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16 and He also returns in Revelation chapter 19.


    Keep asking the difficult questions, if you want to find the truth.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  8. Waggles

    Waggles Acts 2:38 Supporter

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    People believe what they want to believe.
    The very same scriptures that announce the truth spoken of by Jesus and the Apostles are misunderstood and misquoted by those who prefer a different teaching (usually by "famous" pastors and TV ministries).

    I have never found that quoting scriptures alone convinces the other side that they have got it wrong.
    Far too many people think they know what the symbology of Revelation is and apply Revelation to
    interpreting the Gospels and the epistles.

    Jesus himself speaks relatively straightforwardly on the end times; and Jesus knows more about all
    of this than any of us do. Jesus tells us that if we endure to the end then by our longsuffering and faith
    we shall inherit eternal life. There will be a winnowing of the wheat and the chaff.

    Many Christians love the rapture to heaven before the great tribulation theory because it avoids a number
    of awkward issues: for example, THE CHURCH shall be raptured up. When pressed on this definition the
    replies invariably include everyone, or all true believers. Most of everybody rather than fewer true
    worshippers.

    Why would Jesus want to rapture up Western Christians before any tribulation when today's churches
    are so worldly, so liberal, so unbelieving, so uncaring for their brothers and sisters suffering in the
    Middle-East.? What makes Christians of these times think that they are worthy of being rescued from what is coming upon the whole Earth?

    We have Christians professing their unbelief in the Word of God; extolling evolution over Creation;
    permitting homosexual marriages before the altar of God; trashing Pentecost; allowing unmarried
    couple to attend worship services; [add as you can ...]
    And yet such claim that they will not suffer any displeasure from God and will beamed up by Scotty
    to avoid any unpleasantness down here on Earth.

    No wonder there is going to be a great falling away as prophecied.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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  9. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    We do not feel a need to "get around" any scriptures. We leave that to those that deny a literal interpretation of end time prophecy.

    The great trumpet mentioned in Isaiah 27:13 is blown a significant time after the Lord has returned in power and glory to judge the world for its wickedness. This is the absolute and final proof that "the last trump" in 1 Corinthians 15:50 cannot mean the last trumpet that will ever be blown. For this trumpet is blown is long after even the latest interpretation of the timing of the rapture. So the asttrump" in 1 Corinthians 15:50 obviously means the last trumpet that will be blown at that time. In the Roman military f the day in which this was written, three trumpets were blown to signal the beginning of a march, the first one meant, "get ready," and the last one meant, "start moving."
     
  10. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Yes .
    I believe what the scriptures state.

    Rapture theories have to grab prices of scriptures and force fit then into the pretrib rapture box they keep in the shelf.

    Get there in scripture..so plain a child can understand it we see it very simply.

    But those who have no desire to ever lay down their lives for Jesus..not now or ever..prefer pretrib doctrine.
    It's nicer to the ears.
     
  11. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Yep!^_^
     
  12. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Or .as I have said so often
    I'm not looking for the rapture..

    Im looking for my Lord Jesus to return.
    And I want to be ready
    I want to be found Doing his will when he comes.
    Not discussing it.
    Because hearers that are not doers..WONT be with him him when he comes.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Not to take away from your point of being doers, not hearers...

    Have you considered this... ?

    Amons 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

    Differently, it seems that Luke 21:34-36 is to be watching for the rapture to escape ...

    34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

    35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    Even though I pursue understanding the end times, the Antichrist, etc..... it is not something I desire, certainly not, to take place during the time called the day of the Lord; mostly for me that we are close, it is an indication that the rapture is nearer today, than yesterday,

    The saints come with the Lord at the end of the Day of the Lord. Therefore, we being in Christ, should not be looking for the Day of Lord, but him coming quickly for the rapture and resurrection, and His reward is with Him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  14. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    The last trump is in reference to the 100th trumpet on the Feast of Trumpets. That blast has always been known as the last trump.

    As for no scripture indicating we will go to heaven at the rapture, Jesus told us He was going away to prepare a place for us at His Fathers house, and that He will return and receive us to take us where He is. We are also told He is in heaven at the right hand of the Father. That's where both He and the Father's house is, in heaven.
     
  15. Waggles

    Waggles Acts 2:38 Supporter

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    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to
    us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away
    with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    * 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall
    be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.
    14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him
    in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    2 Peter 3:9-14

    * these verses tell us clearly that we need to have "what it takes" to go through and survive the terror
    of nuclear war and planet shaking that is coming upon us all; including Christians.
    These verses are about Christians looking unto the coming Day of the Lord with fear and hope.
     
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    This is the classic example of the confusion and the continuous argument over pre, mid and post tribulation rapture. The 'anytime rapture' idea is just an attempt to reconcile the un-reconcilable. And why is that: NOWHERE DOES SCRIPTURE SAY THAT GOD WILL TAKE ALL HIS PEOPLE TO HEAVEN.
    Who is the author of confusion and who is laughing that he has fooled so many Christians?
     
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  17. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Hmmm in simplicity those who are alive are caught up to join him as he comes ..and so they come with him.
    But it remains ..it not the catching away we seek ..but Jesus.

    The greatest issue is..most who are waiting and looking for the rapture are doing so from an inactive state.
    Like the servant who was afraid and buried his talent instead of multiplying it.
    They should greatly fear the masters coming for they will not be caught up to be with him
     
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    We start with a statement above about "literal interpretation" and then shortly after we are told that the last trumpet in the Bible is really not the last trumpet.

    There is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation.


    Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 

    Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 

    Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 

    Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 

    .


    .
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Of those three that you named, the post trib view agrees with your position of no-one, when the rapture takes place, goes to heaven. The issue of their being a rapture is clearly in the text of 1thessalonians4:15-18. The prime argument is over when, not whether it will take place.

    Which leaves a question to you - when does the event of 1thessalonians4:15-18, them who are alive translated takes place?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  20. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    But there is a scripture that explicitly states that there will be yet another trumpet after the Lord has come to judge the wicked. This is indeed a literal interpretation of scripture, whether it fits your interpretation or not.

    You continually accuse us of wresting the scriptures to fit our "interpretations." But that is what you do, and do continually.
     
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