Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
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>>>1. First of all, no one is arguing that there wasn't 7000 Israelites who didn't bow to Baal. <<<
Friend, I wrote this to emphasize that there is a great difference between Israelite and "Israelite," however, the messages posted here and in many other forums generalize as if all Israelis were equal, which is a grave error, worse, contradicts the Scriptures, this is tares and needs to be ripped out.
The Apostle Paul explains better than you all. What is written in Scriptures? (Rom.9: 6-8CJB) 6 But the present condition of Isra’el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra’el is truly part of Isra’el; 7 indeed, not all the descendants are seed of Avraham; rather, “What is to be called your ‘seed’ will be in Yitz’chak.” 8 In other words, it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed.
There is no place to generalize and say that are all Israel, which are of Israel, this is tares, once "it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise" in the time of the prophet Elijah, there were only 7.000 sons of God, the rest of the people of Israel were sons of the Devil, yes, sons of the Devil. Rom.9:22CJB Now what if God, even though he was quite willing to demonstrate his anger and make known his power, patiently put up with people who deserved punishment and were ripe for destruction?
JESUS left clear in His preaching, saying: (John 8:31-32&38-42&44-47CJB)
31 “If you obey what I say, then you are really my talmidim,
32 you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
38 I say what my Father has shown me; you do what your father has told you!”
39 They answered him, “Our father is Avraham.” Yeshua replied, “If you are children of Avraham, then do the things Avraham did!
40 As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that!
41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!”
42 Yeshua replied to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me; because I came out from God; and now I have arrived here. I did not come on my own; he sent me.
44 You belong to your father, Satan, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. From the start he was a murderer, and he has never stood by the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is speaking in character; because he is a liar — indeed, the inventor of the lie!
45 But as for me, because I tell the truth you don’t believe me.
46 Which one of you can show me where I’m wrong? If I’m telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?
47 Whoever belongs to God listens to what God says; the reason you don’t listen is that you don’t belong to God.”
Many of Christians or believers preach about Israel as whether all the people of Israel are equal, be the sons of Devil, be the sons of God, this is tares. They which are not sons of God and belong not to God, they are sons of the Devil, they are all of the Devil, a fallen Cherub, that is the son of perdition, the man of sin, the own Satan incarnated which will manifest himself as a messiah in Israel (John 5:43)an impostor, an usurper, not so far of this present time.
(Rom.9:22-29&31-33
22 Now what if God, even though he was quite willing to demonstrate his anger and make known his power, patiently put up with people who deserved punishment and were ripe for destruction?
23 What if he did this in order to make known the riches of his glory to those who are the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory —
24 that is, to us, whom he called not only from among the Jews but also from among the Gentiles?
25 As indeed he says in Hoshea, “Those who were not my people I will call my people; her who was not loved I will call loved;
26 and in the very place where they were told,‘You are not my people,’there they will be called sons of the living God!”
27 But Yesha‘yahu, referring to Isra’el, cries out, “Even if the number of people in Isra’el is as large as the number of grains of sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved.
28 For Adonai will fulfill his word on the earth with certainty and without delay.”
29 Also, as Yesha‘yahu said earlier, “If Adonai-Tzva’ot had not left us a seed,
we would have become like S’dom, we would have resembled ‘Amora.”
31 However, Isra’el, even though they kept pursuing a Torah that offers righteousness, did not reach what the Torah offers.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue righteousness as being grounded in trusting but as if it were grounded in doing legalistic works. They stumbled over the stone that makes people stumble.
33 As the Tanakh puts it, “Look, I am laying in Tziyon a stone that will make people stumble, a rock that will trip them up. But he who rests his trust on it will not be humiliated.”
Take a care. Be careful. Whosoever falls on this stone will be broken: but on whomsoever it falls it will grind him to powder.
Remember. JESUS said to the Jews: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Israel has to be purged and come back to God Daniel 9:24-27 before they can receive the kingdom gifts and callings which are eternal Romans 11:25-29.
The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants are eternal upon the condition of the whole nation repenting.
Do you mean that anyone inside their borders is a Jew?
Based on Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled during the first century.
The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. In Romans 11:25-29 the Apostle Paul reveals that the branches broken off of the Olive Tree can be grafted back in through faith in Christ. The Greek word "houto" in verse 26 is the "manner" of their salvation. You have turned that word into "then" or "when" in order to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
The word "remnant" in Romans 9:27 cannot mean "the whole nation", as you claim above.
In Galatians 3:16 we find that the Abrahamic covenant applies to only the One Seed, who is Christ.
You have just replaced the One Seed, with the many seeds.
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I'm not the one who said "All of Israel and Judah are Jews."jgr,
No!
British Israelism claims their is a difference between a Hebrew and a Jew and there is not.
They do this to prove replacement theology. It was started years ago by Herbert W. Armstrong and Ted his son in their Church of God denomination.
Do you believe in British-Israelism? Jerry kelso
I'm not the one who said "All of Israel and Judah are Jews."
So what did you mean?
Was this for BABerean2 or me?baberean2,
1. Post #533; you seem to believe the whole world is ethnically Jewish and you are wrong.
You are trying to reinforce replacement theology which is not scriptural. All the house of Israel and Judah will become one stick and will be believers in the kingdom program with Israel not gentiles from the church. Jerry kelso
Was this for BABerean2 or me?
If for me, my question remains unanswered.
You said "All of Israel and Judah are Jews."
You then said that did not mean everyone within their borders.
So who does it mean?
Based on Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled during the first century.
The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. In Romans 11:25-29 the Apostle Paul reveals that the branches broken off of the Olive Tree can be grafted back in through faith in Christ. The Greek word "houto" in verse 26 is the "manner" of their salvation. You have turned that word into "then" or "when" in order to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
The word "remnant" in Romans 9:27 cannot mean "the whole nation", as you claim above.
In Galatians 3:16 we find that the Abrahamic covenant applies to only the One Seed, who is Christ.
You have just replaced the One Seed, with the many seeds.
.
oseas,
1. The Kingdom taken away from Israel was the propagating of the gospel. The church now propagates the gospel. This is the church age not Old Covenant or the Kingdom age.
Israel stumbled over the rock of offense which was Jesus the cornerstone.
2. Roman's 9:27 doesn't say only a remnant shall be saved. It says a remnant shall be saved. It takes more than a remnant to be United with the other stick so two sticks can be one Ezekiel 37:16-28.
There will be the believing remnant of Israel's seed Revelation 12:17. The woman will be saved later at the end of the tribulation so Ezekiel 37:16-28 and Hebrews 8:7-13 can be fulfilled.
3. I never said all Israelites were equal. Roman's 2 said the true Jews is the one who believes in spiritual circumcision.
Zechariah 13:9 says 2/3 of Jewish rebels will be cut off.
So I don't really know Christians you are talking about that believe all Jews are equal.
4. Unbelieving Jews, especially the leaders thought they had the goods because fleshwise they were Abraham's seed but Jesus told them they didn't even do what Moses commanded. Many of the leaders were already apostates Matthew 12. Sons of the devil they were.
They thought they belonged to God the Father but yet refused to believe the son who did the father's will.
5. Israel has to be purged and come back to God Daniel 9:24-27 before they can receive the kingdom gifts and callings which are eternal Romans 11:25-29.
The Abrahamic and Davidic covenants are eternal upon the condition of the whole nation repenting. This concerns the land Genesis 12-15 and the house and throne of David 2 Samuel 7:13-16 and 1 Chronicles 28:1-8.
God declared and promised Israel these things eternally. But the stipulation is they have to Repent and that will not happen until the end of the tribulation and that generation will repent.
6. Galatians talks about the Abrahamic promises which is salvation under the New Covenant.
This correlates with Romans 9 and the children of promise for both Jew and Gentile can be saved and are now in one body Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.
One has to keep the kingdom promises specific to Israel in the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants separate from the church's part.
Salvation was to be for all men and at Calvary it happened.
This was because of the part of Abraham's covenant concerning salvation which was righteousness by faith and not the Mosaic law and by grace not of works.
The kingdom program with Israel and salvation for all men are two different subjects. Confuse them and you will always stay confused.
Israel has a different calling than the church but we are all one in Christ and can only be saved by the New Covenant. Jerry kelso
According to your interpretation of Romans 11:26, will all ethnic Jews eventually be believers and be saved?jgr,
1. Your name is on it.
All of the house of Israel and the house of Judah in the kingdom will all be ethnic Jews that are believers being saved by the New Covenant.
Jerry kelso
This statement is one of your many errors. The Prophets always carefully distinguished between the House of Israel and the House of Judah. They are mentioned separately over 160 times in the Bible.All of the house of Israel and the house of Judah in the kingdom will all be ethnic Jews that are believers being saved by the New Covenant.
Jerry kelso
The kingdom program with Israel and salvation for all men are two different subjects. Confuse them and you will always stay confused.
Israel has a different calling than the church but we are all one in Christ and can only be saved by the New Covenant. Jerry kelso
This statement is one of your many errors. The Prophets always carefully distinguished between the House of Israel and the House of Judah. They are mentioned separately over 160 times in the Bible.
They separated in King Rehaboam's time and remain apart today. The Jewish people consist of only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, some of the other tribes did assimilate, as well as foreigners as is still happening today.
The ten Northern tribes remain scattered round the world, Deuteronomy 28:63-67 and who exactly they all are, only God knows. Amos 9:9 But it does seem that the majority of them have become Christian, as that was what Jesus said He had come to do. Matthew 15:24, John 10:16 His mission did not fail, as all the disciples went out to the world and we Christians are the result.
Your scathing remarks about British Israelism, just shows your bias against anything that doesn't fit your 'rapture to heaven' belief. They did have the leadership role of Britain wrong, but their research does prove that the Western nations do have an Israelite foundation. The waymarks [dolmens] across Europe are proof. Jeremiah 31:21
This shows where you go wrong.5. You don't read very well, I said even if there were no rapture Israel would still receive their gifts and callings.
There are Americans and others that have Jewish ancestry etc. and that makes no difference.
This shows where you go wrong.
Belief that race and ethnicity still has anything to do with salvation and who will receive the Promises and Blessings of God, contradicts the entire message of Jesus. ...ALL who believe in Him, shall have eternal life. John 3:16
Read and understand Ephesians 2:11-18. Then know that the nonsense of a Jewish redemption is just another lie upon the rapture lie.
Who will inherit the holy Land? The Lord's faithful Christian people, from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 37:28-29, Ephesians 3:6, +
So are the Jewish Israelis meek? You display great ignorance and extreme bias in your worthless opinions.Psalm 37:28-29; these verses have to with Israel being preserved forever and the wicked being cut off.
The righteous shall inherit the land was talking about Israel. This is why Jesus said Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.