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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by WailingWall, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter


    There is no 7 year tribulation period anywhere in the Bible.
    And as you said above... "This is a fact."

    It can be created by adding together two of the references to the 3 1/2 year tribulation period in the Book of Revelation or by taking Daniel 9:27 out of context.

    There are elders and saints in heaven now, because they have already died...

  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    I have reported you for your rude and unacceptable comments.
    You have been proved wrong by me and other members here.
    Your attitude is undesirable, your beliefs are flat out wrong and you reject correction.
    Read James 3:13-18 ......the wisdom from above is pure and peace loving, considerate and open minded, it is straight forward and sincere, rich in compassion and in deeds of kindness, which is its fruit.
  3. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    There is a 7 year tribulation because the 6 seals start it off.
    The last 3.5 years is the time of Jacob's trouble. This a fact that goes along with Daniel's 70th week.
    I've already debunked your view on Daniel 9:24-27 long time ago.

    2. There are elders and saints in Heaven right now, Old and New Testament saints.
    Revelation 4:1; 5:9-10; shows saints of the church in Heaven before the beginning of the tribulation which starts with the 7 seals.
    Revelation 11:18; rewards of the saints in Heaven in the middle of the tribulation and no later than towards the end of the tribulation.
    Revelation 19:7-10 has all saints from Adam's time to the tribulation saints that wrap up the First Resurrection Revelation 6:9-11; 15:1-2; 20:4-6 and those raptured such as the 2 Witnesses and the 144,000.
    They are all in time for the Marriage of the Lamb and in time to come out of Heaven to go to the Battle of Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15.
    Jerry kelso
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  4. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

    United States
    Calvary Chapel
    I gave proof, so have others. That's why I say you are seemingly actively avoiding them. You won't be given any more from me.
  5. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. Why report me?
    You told me I promote inferences and assumptions and that what I believed and said were all lies and that I was locked into false doctrine.
    You said I wasn't bad as others and I explained that I show the word of God and that I have nothing against you because I don't know you.
    As far as tone you are the one that is upset to the extreme in my opinion.
    All I ask isn't that you be fair in exegesis and you won't because you don't rebut properly.

    2. You want make out there is no rapture to Heaven as in a plain statement but there are plenty of scriptures that says we will escape the tribulation just like Noah and his family did by the ark. Enoch is a type of the rapture and the pictures of the heavenly saints are in Heaven during the tribulation and why.
    You say there is no literal statement of the church going to Heaven.
    I can say there is no literal statement that says the church is in the tribulation.
    As far as attitude I would suggest you are upset because you haven't proved correct context. You are going by perception.
    There are more members who believe the view I gave than yours, so what? It is about what the word says and mean in proper exegesis. Give me some logical answers and I'll be glad to continue. Jerry kelso
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    All right Jerry, lets try again shall we? And if you are proved wrong, have the moral fortitude to admit it.
    The 'Church', or as is stated; 'the holy ones of God' ARE present during the Great Tribulation.
    Daniel 7:25 He, [the Anti-Christ] will wear down, [conquer, Zechariah 14:1-2] the saints, [the holy people] of the Most High....
    Revelation 13:7 It was given to him, [the Anti-Christ] to make war on the saints and to overcome them...
    Revelation 12:17 Furious with the 'woman', [faithful Christians] the dragon, [the Anti-Christ] went off the persecute the rest of her seed, [those Christians who violated the Covenant; Daniel 11:32].....those who have the testimony of Jesus.
    So your statement above is wrong.

    Do not think those people are ones who have become Christian after your supposed rapture, because prophecy does not support any conversions when the AC takes control of the world. Revelation 13:16, Revelation 11:10, Revelation 9:21

    There is as well, the many verses saying we must stand firm in our faith during all that is coming. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10, Hebrews 10:36, +

    Your contention that more people believe in a rapture to heaven that who reject that theory, is disputable. Actually, most that I know, just say: Whatever God wills, be done. Or the utterly ridiculous idea of a 'pan trib rapture'- it will all pan out in the end!
    Which shows a poor attitude toward the voluminous amount of prophetic information God has given us.
    Being in the dark, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, is not how we Christians should be about God's plans.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  7. Hal A Peno

    Hal A Peno Well-Known Member

    United States
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  8. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. Revelation shows there will be saints on earth and in Heaven.
    One can't prove that the church is in Heaven or earth during the tribulation just by the word saints.
    The picture is in both places so your assessment in that respect doesn't hold water and that includes Daniel 7:25 are the Jews Zechariah 14:1-2 is talking about Jerusalem and the Jews; Revelation 13:7 is tribulation saints of all kindred and tongues and nations but that doesn't prove it is the church age saints today.
    The elders represent the church for all the church shall rule and reign on the earth Revelation 5:9-10.
    They sing a new song about being priests and Kings etc. David had the priesthood in 24 divisions.
    The Elders place their crowns on the glassy sea.
    The church is in Heaven before the tribulation gets started.
    Who are all the saints at the end of the tribulation that is in Heaven?
    What purpose is the Marriage of the Lamb saints in Heaven if it is just half a wife?

    2. Revelation 12 is all about Israel the Jewish nation not the church. There is no earmarks of the church in the time of Jacob's trouble which has never been referenced to the church or Gentiles.
    You believe in Spiritual Israel theory and that is why you believe the church replaces the Nation of Israel? Is this not what you said earlier?

    3. Daniel 11:32; this is about the Jewish nation and the abomination of desolation in that context and verse 31.
    The AOD has never been referenced to the church age body of Christ for we have no physical temple on earth and we don't do sacrifices.

    4. No conversions after the Antichrist?
    How about the tribulation saints who won't take the mark Revelation 14:13; And I heard a voice from Heaven saying unto me, Write, BLESSED ARE THE DEAD WHICH DIE IN THE LORD FROM HENCEFORTH.....Revelation 15:1-2. These are Jewish martyrs that sing the song of Moses and the Lamb before the Wrath Of God on the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2.

    5. Matthew 24:13; the context is talking more specific to the Jewish nation Matthew 24:9-22 and even overall the rest of the chapter.

    6. Faith of the saints is not the church for the gates of hell shall never prevail but Israel has been trodden many times in all their oppressions, including 70 A.D. and in the future tribulation when they will almost be completely annihilated and Christ will make them a nation born in one day Isaiah 66:7-9.
    Hebrews 10:36; This is talking about running the race to receive the promise at the present.
    Hebrews 10:36-37; The historical slant is Habbakuk 2:3-4 which is talking to the Jews.

    7. Well, I will agree that the problem with today's eschatological position of Amillenialism by Augustine from the Catholic Church even though many early church fathers didn't agree with him. And many protestants are believing amillenialism.

    8. So what is your reasoning for having the church go through the tribulation and based on what specific scripture? The church is being trained right now for rulership training 2Timothy 2:12. Also, there is a difference between the true church and the professing church.
    On the other hand, Israel has to be purged by tribulation because of being backslidden Daniel 9:24; Romans 11:27 and has to receive their covenant promises of Abraham and David; Genesis 12-15; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:2-8; Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7;66:7-9; Jeremiah 30:7; 31:31-34; Romans 11:25-29; Hebrews 8:7-13.

    9. I agree we shouldn't be in the dark and that is why proper context and full exegesis is of utmost importance.
    One cannot be consistent in rightly dividing the word of the proper context is not understood and proper historical context is not defined and how to properly reconcile the scriptures together correctly. Jerry Kelso
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    Where does Revelation say living people are in heaven? The souls of the martyrs, yes; but that's all.
    I should have said: Don't think they are the Jews either, as only a remnant of them remain after the Lord's Day of wrath. Isaiah 22:14, Luke 19:27, Romans 9:27, + Plus there is only one holy people of God. The Two People, Two Promises idea is just another false teaching to support the rapture. Ephesians 4:4-6, John 17:20-23, Romans 2:11, +
    The ones that are alive now, are the ones Revelation is talking about.
    Here you are probably right. However guessing is not good exegesis.
    Unscriptural speculation. This fanciful idea totally conflicts with every Bible prophecy about God's plans for the end times.
    Too confused to answer.
    Too foolish to answer.
    I have made it plain many times, that it is a continuation of God's people; from Abraham, thru the congregation in the desert, to the 3000 at Pentecost, to the Pilgrim Fathers, until the born again believer of today, who are the holy ones of God, His overcomers; literally the Israelites of God.
    This truth destroys the rapture theory, which is why you dislike it.
    You constantly demonstrate you lack of Bible knowledge. Try reading Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 34:11-16, + many other prophesies saying how it will be the Lord's faithful Christian people who will go to live in all of the holy Land and build a new Temple, Ezekiel 40 -43, soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed by the Lord' Day of wrath. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:24-26, +
    Maybe a few, but the quotes I gave seem to preclude that.
    You always must hark back to the Jews. Get this: they have had nearly 2000 years of opportunity to get right with God and accept His Son. They refuse. What do you think God should do with people like that?
    All part of your wrong interpretation of scripture. The whole NT is for Christians, from every race and nation, There is no longer Jew and Gentile, all are one in Christ. Ephesians 2:14
    That prophecy refers to the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, when every faithful Christian will be a citizen there. Revelation 7:9
    Actually, those Christians who refuse to violate the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, will be taken to a place of safety on earth. Revelation 12:14 But, yes we will all have to pass through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal event. Revelation 7:14
    We Christians are the inheritors of the Promises; Romans 8:16-17, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 3:6
    It is inconsistent to think that there is any future for anyone who has rejected Jesus, or who just live their lives without any thought for their Creator. That was how the Antediluvian people were and now Jesus warns: As it was in the days of Noah....so it will be when the Son of Man comes.... in judgement. Matthew 24:37-33
    Obviously your version of reconciling the scriptures correctly, is opposed to mine. But when thought is given to what God does want from us, why we are here? what is our purpose in life? where is our destiny? These questions require serious consideration and thinking there is any easy way out of our responsibilities as Christians, is not right and contradicts Bible teaching.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  10. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. Our responsibility as Christians is to learn rulership training under the law of love. 2 Timothy 2:12.
    We are also to occupy till he comes whether there is a rapture or not.

    2. The antediluvians were destroyed but Noah and his family were saved to repopulate the earth and keep the plan of God continuing in the process of the redemptive plan of God which is salvation of man's soul and the physical creation itself and this is why Paul says creation groans and yearns to be free.

    3. Christ will destroy those at Armageddon and will judge the nations and will rule with a rod of Iron.
    The Kingdom will be of peace but there will be sinners in heart and will be allowed to live in the kingdom if they abide by the civil law Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:2-4; 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20; Psalm 2:6-9; Micah4:3; Zechariah 14:16-21; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Revelation 20:7-10. Dake's God's Plan for man point 11 will there be laws for the subjects in the Kingdom? Pg 964 paragraph2.
    Those who commit sins worthy of death will be executed Isaiah 11:3-5; 16:5; 65:20. Dake's God's Plan For Man point 11 will there be laws for the subjects of the Kingdom? Pg. 964 paragraph 3.

    4. The purpose of the First 1000 years of the millennial kingdom is basically to rid earth of sin and rebellion and to get rid of death and his enemies 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Christ has to do all these things before he gives the kingdom back to the father so God can be all in all and then he will create the New Heaven and New Earth which will be the perfect state for eternity.

    5. Roman's 8:16-17; Galatians 3:26-29; Ephesians 3:6 are all about the promise of salvation.
    The church is made up of Jews and Gentiles that are equal in the body of Christ.
    The Jewish nation is backslidden and it has not received the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13 otherwise David would be King Jeremiah 30:7 and the two sticks of Judah and Israel would be one Ezekiel 37:16-28 and that hasn't happened and will not till the kingdom comes Matthew 23:39.

    6. The Old Testament scriptures you give are basically to the Jews not the church. They didn't even know what the church was back then and even after the early church at least 7-10 years from the Day of Pentecost. Ephesians 2:14-15; 3:3-6 the church was a mystery to the Old Testament saints and the beginnings of the early church.

    7. I believe in Ezekiel's temple and I believe the church will be on earth as Kings, priests and rulers in the Kingdom.
    Ezekiel 34:16 is talking strictly about Israel Ezekiel 33:2; Ezekiel was told to speak to the children of his people which were the Jews.

    8. You have no scripture for spiritual Israel to replace their gifts and calling.
    Romans 2 is talking to Jews and that the true Jew is saved for salvation is the only way to get into Heaven today and entrance into the millennial kingdom reign for the Jews.
    Israel had a problem before with thing they were a shoo-in for Heaven because they were God's people and Ezekiel 18 shows that wasn't true and that he would save the wicked from their sin if they repented because God is no respect of persons.

    9. I gave you the scriptures that Israel's covenants of Abraham and David are eternal and you completely ignored them.
    These covenants are eternal but conditioned by obedience for entrance into the Kingdom.
    The tribulation is the time when Israel will obey and will become a nation born in one day Isaiah 66:7-9.
    The church age saints and the Old Testament saints 1 Corinthians 15:23 and tribulation martyrs Revelation 15:1-2 will come from Heaven as well as the 144,000 Revelation 14:1-5 and the Two Witnesses Revelation 11:11-12 to go to the Battle of Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15. All of these will be a part of the marriage of the Lamb.

    10. You have the wrong idea about two peoples theory. Jews and Gentiles will still be different from each other physically but one people in the Lord spiritually.
    All saints will have different positions of authority in the kingdom according to their faithfulness in their former life.
    The Jews will be different in authority because the land and the Kingdom were promised to them unconditionally for eternity but based on the whole nation's obedience and this will happen when the time of the Gentiles are up Roman's 11:25-29 which will be when the kingdoms of this world, the earth become his Revelation 11:15.

    11. Ephesians 4:4-6 is talking to the church.
    John 17:20-23; Jesus is praying for his disciples to be one like him and the Father so people would believe that Jesus sent them. This is historical to the lives of the disciples who were all martyred except John even though he was boiled real good.
    Romans man's 2:11; there is no respect of persons with God.
    God saves Jews and gentiles alike and are all on the same level.
    Just because God has promised Israel to be at the head of the nation Isaiah 2:2-4 and Jerusalem will be the capitol of the world doesn't mean that we aren't all one.
    So the two people extreme-theory is misconstrued and builds up an inferiority complex like the church is being slighted because Israel has a different position of authority.
    I am sure that all kings, priests, and rulers will have access to Israel but Israel will have a nation with David as King Ezekiel 37:24 and the Law going forth out of Israel Isaiah 2:2-4 and the people of the nations will come up to Jerusalem for the feasts which are synonymous with Israel.
    There is only one Covenant for salvation and that is the cross of Calvary which makes us all one. Jerry kelso
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter


    You do have a great imagination...

    You have added together two of the references to the 3.5 year tribulation in the Book of Revelation to get a 7 year tribulation.

    Then you have ripped the "time of Jacob's trouble" out of its historical context during the Babylonian captivity.

    And you have converted the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, which is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28, into a treaty broken by an antichrist not found in Daniel 9, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

    And you must think that Daniel 9:24 was not fulfilled during the first century, even though Acts 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18 says otherwise.

  12. Oseas

    Oseas Member

    You wrote: >>>1. Some think one should go off the Jewish calendar. <<<
    If I understood well you, you are telling me that Adam should go off the Jewish calendar. In truth Adam is off the Jewish Calendar which begins from the son of Adam, ie from Seth. But wait. The Jewish Calendar marks now 5.777 years, but as I have posted in my timeline, we are living around 6.017 years from Adam until this present time, so there is a difference of 240 years.

    Once the Jews take off Adam of their Calendar, then we have met 130 years of difference.
    But why do the Jews excluded Adam of their Calendar ? The Jews do not accept the existence of Adam, and for to deny their link with the Garden of Eden, they created a special Calendar excluding 130 years of Adam, and starting their Calendar from Seth ahead.

    And where are the other 110 years of diference? Ahhh! they despised the 40 years they walked in the desert and 70 years of captivity in Babilon, total of 240 years. The timeline from Adam until Jesus, more the time of Christian Calendar, mark 6,017 years, but Jewish Calendar points 5.777 years. The Jews are ashamed to speak of the 40 years they walked in the wilderness toward the Promised Land, and also of the 70 years of captivity in Babylon. By the way, the Jews try to hide their connection with their fall in the Garden of God. They are originally descendant of the former Cherub, the Devil (John 8:44), from whom was born Cain. JESUS said: (Mat.23:33to35)
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
    That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    Therefore, we can interpret that the Jews are inextricably linked with the murder of Abel.

    You wrote: >>>2. If we are in the first century of the 7th millennium themselves where is God's rest and why hasn't the tribulation started and ended?<<<
    Yes, we are in the beginning of the first century of the 7th millennium, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, the Millennium of Judgment, and Millennium of Vengeance. The Most High and Almighty God entered in His rest and JESUS is already sat on His throne of Judgment to judge all nations, the Judgment Seat of Christ. Because of this the son of perdition (the former Cherub and own Satan incarnated, the abomination of desolation) will manifest himself very soon(Rev.13:11to18) in Israel with a great wrath. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Rev.12:v.12)

    Who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches.Rev. 2:v.17)
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    Glad you agree on our responsibilities here. We will occupy the holy Land until He comes and forever after. Psalms 37:29
    Never heard if it. I prefer God's Plan for His Creation; the Bible.
    There is only one 1000 year time when Jesus will reign and it is for His reward and is the Sabbath period for the earth and mankind.
    Those scriptures and many more prove that we Christians are the inheritors of God's promises.
    I thought I made it clear, that the 'church', the ekkelasia, the congregation, etc; is comprised of every individual faithful to God. From Abraham until todays born again Christians. The Jews become members in the same way. God has no favorites!
    Good, but what you fail to understand, is that this will happen before Jesus Returns. The Shekinah glory will go into the new Temple, Ezekiel 43:1-6, and the citizens of the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, will elect their own leaders. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21
    You like to make out that your opinion is factual.
    But it's far from that, as all of Ezekiel 34:11-31 is about how the Lord will gather His sheep, now every born again Christian, and bless them in all of the Holy Land.
    The New Testament is full of it; how it is only the faithful believers who are the people of God. Trying to say Jewish ethnic Israel will still receive all the Promises, is rather silly, because even just the numbers- a vast multitude, don't fit the Jews. Read Galatians 3:14
    Sure, the Covenants are eternal, I didn't dispute that. Where you err, is thinking ethnic Israel, those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, Revelation 2:9, are still the inheritors of them.
    You seen to be unable to read the very many prophesies that plainly say that only a small remnant of the Jews will survive the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 22:14, Isaiah 6:11-13, Luke 19:27
    The nation to be born in one day is Beulah and its citizens are people from every tribe, race, nation and language, all Faithful Christians. Isaiah 66:18b
    Actually, the only souls Jesus will bring with Him at His Return, are those of the Tribulation martyrs, which includes the 2 witnesses. They will be brought back to life then. Revelation 20:4 All the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgement, after the Millennium. The 144,000 are those who proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19
    Sure; we don't change our skin color! I know some great black Christians and look forward to meeting them in the holy Land.
    The few Messianic Jews who join their brethren, will be so ashamed of their race, they will keep very quiet. Ezekiel 16:63
    Yes, the church that consists of every believer in Christ. Jew, Gentile or Eskimo.
    It is not for these alone [the disciples] that I Pray, but for all who.....put their faith in Me.....
    Your opinion about this, made to support the false theory of a rapture, is plainly wrong.
    Isaiah 2:2-4 is about the Millennium period. But what you do not yet seem to see, is how there will be a new nation in all of the holy Land, before Jesus Returns. The posts I have put up in the 'The Lord comes to reveal His glory among His own', thread help to explain this.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  14. Oseas

    Oseas Member

    Hi Jerry kelso
    Let me do more some comments and questions.
    In what moment there will be a tribulation of seven years, divided in two periods because it will happen under the power of two satanic rulers. First period of 42 months ruled by the Beast of the sea (Rev.13:v.5)

    and the remaining 42 months will be ruled by the Beast that will come up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Rev.13:11). This Beast that speak as dragon will be very very worse than the first Beast of the sea, and he is the abomination of desolation and will rule the ssecond period of 42 months. As is written (Rev.13:12to18) 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a Sword, and did live.

    Daniel 12 explains the why there will be a ghreat tribulation in time ahead, not so far from these days.( Daniel 12:1to4)
    1 - And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
    and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (Mat.24:v.15&21-22): and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake
    (there will be resurrection-1The.4:15to18), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
    4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:(this time has already arrived) many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    As you, and all, can see, the presence of the Archangel Michel here will cause an great impact in the world of Devil, so there will a battle against three unclean spirits like frogs (Rev. 16:13to16). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev. 12:12
    v.13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child (Read Rev.12:1-2&5).

    So the first Beast will rule the first period of 42 months or 1.260 days.
    The second Beast (the abomination of desolation) will rule the remaining 42 months or 1.260 days

    Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up(John 5:43), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    (Therefore, 30 days after ending the determinated period of tribulation)
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (75 days after ending the determinated period of tribulation)
    Yes, blessed is he that waits... JESUS VOLTOU. Hallelujahhhh!

    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
  15. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. No imagination, just the Word of God in correct context.

    2. There is one week that is the 7 years left of Daniel's 70th week.

    3. Jeremiah 30:7 is prophetic and as they were in the Babylonian captivity which ended it is a double reference. As Solomon said, history repeats itself.
    Daniel 12:1 and Matthew 24:21 show the time of Jacob's trouble. So you have no leg to stand on.

    4. Daniel 9:27 he will make a covenant for 7 years and break it in the middle of the week.
    Nobody in Daniel's day made a 7 year covenant.
    Christ kept his covenant not broke it. He didn't confirm for just one week. That is why the ceasing of the sacrifices are not Christ at the cross but the AOD in the temple in the tribulation Revelation 11:1-2. It is also the reason Daniel 9:24 is about the Jews being purified from sin to enter the KoH gifts and callings Romans 9:25-29.

    5. Acts 10:38; Hebrews 10:16-18 has nothing to do with the AOD.
    Your scenario doesn't fit the context. Jerry kelso
  16. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. The Jewish nation will inhabit Israel, the capital of the earth not the other saints Ezekiel 37:16-28; Matthew 19:28.
    I said that I'm sure other saints
    will go to Israel such as on business or visits etc. and the nations will have to come to celebrate feasts.

    2. Dake could quote the whole Bible by memory and he always believed in context and proper hermeneutics and backed it up by many scriptures.

    3. Psalm 37:29 is talking to the Jews not gentiles who had no covenant.
    This is shown in Jesus teachings of the Sermon on the Mount when he was offering the KoH Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.
    Genesis 12:1-3 they would be a nation that the families of the earth will be blessed.
    All these verses and context about Israel's earthly calling which is eternal.
    It doesn't mean that the righteous won't inherit the earth but not in the same land of Israel, not in the same position at the head of the nations of the earth and not in the context of Psalm 37:29. This is why you will always come to the wrong conclusion.

    4. There is one 1000 year millennial reign to rid Sin of Rebellion, Christ enemies, and Death so God can be all in all 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. You can't debunk these scriptures and you didn't even try and gave no scriptural proof and that is why it's just your opinion.

    5. Christians do inherit promises of God for we are Blesses and set in Heavenly places already Ephesians 1:3 and we will be kings and priests in the kingdom Revelation 5:9-10.
    There is nowhere that says the church will live in Israel or be at the head of the nations in Jerusalem.

    6. Abraham will be one of the dead who will be resurrected in the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 with the Church who are alive and remain.
    He will also come out of Heaven with all the heavenly saints to go to the Battle of Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15.
    We inherit the Abrahamic covenant that concerns salvation Galatians 3:19 among other things but living in the specific land of Israel.
    God has no favorites concerning salvation and I made that clear!!!!
    Just because Israel has a different position of authority doesn't mean God is a respect of persons.
    We will have different positions of authority in the kingdom according to ones faithfulness for to whom much is given much is required and that is fair and righteous.

    7. The temple will be built in the tribulation the first half and will be desecrated and sacrifices cease Revelation 11:1-2.
    It will be cleansed at the end of the tribulation Daniel 12:12.

    8. Revelation 2:9 are the Jews historically in the days of Rome and Domitian the emperor. It is true now in the church age but the context is not in the tribulation concerning the church.
    You don't believe this because you believe the church will not be raptured and will have to go through the tribulation. Your position is faulty because you don't understand the church age and the separate earthly calling of the nation of Israel.
    Ethnic Israel who are believers will inherit the gifts and callings Romans 11:29.
    Ethnic Israel who are rebels will be cut off Zechariah 13:9.

    9. Revelation 11:12 and 12:17 shows the Jewish remnant that are scattered.
    Revelation 12:14 Israel as the sun Clothed woman I will be protected in the wilderness. These will make up the whole nation with the Jewish remnant of her seed that is scattered v 17.
    Revelation 1:7 says Behold he cometh wth Clouds and every eye shall see him and they which also pierced him.... these are the Jews and God will forgive Israel's sins Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13 and the New Covenant will be made with Israel at this time.

    10. Isaiah 66:18 says nothing about the nations being citizens of Israel. They will come to see the glory of the Lord. I don't know why you make these things up.

    11. The tribulation martyrs and the Two witnesses aren't the only ones to come out of Heaven for their are saints that died in time past. Of course I already proved the church will be in Heaven but you won't believe that and you haven't proved the scriptures wrong.
    The 144,000 do proclaim the gospel for they are witnesses but you must have forgotten Revelation 14:1-5 which says they are in MT. Sion which is in Heaven not on earth. They are redeemed from among men and from the earth and are before God's throne as the firstfruits of God and the Lamb who are in Heaven during the tribulation and this is why they are before God's throne which is in Heaven. They will be at the Marriage of the Lamb and come out of Heaven with the rest of the Ten thousands of saints Jude 1:14.
    The nation being born in one day is the nation of Israel. The church is not a Physical nation in the respect of Israel.

    12. Ezekiel 16:63 says nothing about being ashamed of their race but the shame of their sin.
    Even in the tribulation the Jews will Heralds the gospel of the kingdom message Matthew 24:14 which is the king is coming, the kingdom is coming and God will defeat their enemies Matthew 24:14. This is a witness for all nations that Christ will take over the kingdoms of this world which the angels whisper in Heaven Revelation 11:15.
    It doesn't mean that salvation will not be preached but it is only part of the gospel of the kingdom.

    13. I gave the proper context of Jesus praying for his disciples who he knew would all die for the sake of the call. You stretch the context to others with no proof and don't reconcile with it.

    14. The Lord comes to reveal his glory among his own doesn't mean that all the saints will live in Israel for we will be King and Priests and Rulers throughout the rest of the Kingdom.
    I really don't know why you want to keep distorting the context of scriptures and it is not right when you just loosely put it in other context it don't belong just because you want to be all inclusive of the church in every way and rob Israel of its covenant blessings.
    The type of hermeneutics you display are incorrect and doesn't make logical sense according to biblical hermeneutics.
    Why does your crowd find it so offensive that Israel has a different gifts and callings concerning rulership in the kingdom reign on earth? I'd really like to know.
    I can assure you that the apostles and all other saints will have different positions of authority than you or I both and some in greater dimensions. It doesn't mean they are any better than we are personally but that they were more faithful.
    Israel's calling is not even that, but it is because they are the apple of God's eye and he has not forgotten them and they are divorced from him and have been and they will be restored as his wife.
    The church is seen as a virgin and Paul said he would present his flock as a virgin to Christ for he was responsible to and for them.
    The church will not be married to Christ the Lamb till the end of the tribulation Revelation 19:7-10.
    They will inhabit the Holy City after the 1000 years, the casting of Satan into the Lake of Fire and the GWTJ and death and hell are destroyed and the New Heaven and Earth are created. Jerry kelso
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    Just as well that I'm a retired person and have the time to refute your biased and unbiblical notions about what God will do in the end times.
    I repeat: only a Messianic remnant of the apostate, atheistic, LBGT, members of the synagogue of Satan, will survive their forthcoming, well prophesied and deserved judgement and punishment.
    Just like all the commentators and prophecy experts up until now, it was impossible for them to know the truth. Daniel 12:9-10...only in the last days, will a few understand.
    We Christians have the New Covenant. It is the one Jeremiah 31:31-34 prophesies about.
    Psalm 37:29 says it will be the righteous who inherit the holy Land, you are seriously changing the truth of scripture to suit your beliefs. Shame on you.
    I agree with this, but before you said there would be more than one Millennium. Please try to be consistent. And I have plenty of scripture proving what I say, I don't want to quote every one and flood the the=read, like some do.
    What is your address? Why must you twist this plain statement to make it seem we go to heaven? Ephesians 1:3 says we receive the heavenly blessings thru our belief in Christ.
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    New Zealand
    What rubbish. The dead including Adam, Abraham, David and Daniel; Daniel 12:13, wait until the GWT Judgement and the opening of the Book of Life. Revelation 20:11-15
    The Temple will be built before the last seven years and yes it will be cleansed and rededicated after Jesus Returns.
    How and when did the Jews cease being of the synagogue of Satan?
    The faithful Christians do not have to go thru the GT. They will be taken to safety on earth. Rev 12:14
    Romans 11:29 refer to the whole of righteous Israel, that now means every Christian. Galatians 6:16
    Zech 13:9 reiterates that only a remnant of Judah will survive, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Romans 9:27
    Those scriptures have nothing to do with the Jews. You are getting desperate now!
    Isaiah 66:18b shows that it is people from every nation and language, all true Christians, who go to inhabit all of the holy Land. I don't know why you are so blinded to plain Words.
    Only the Trib martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus Return. That would include the two witnesses. Revelation 20:4 is indisputable.
    There is no scripture that says the Church goes to heaven, that's why I don't believe that false idea.
    Mount Zion is in Jerusalem. You add to the Book of Revelation! Bad idea, a curse will be on you.
    We Christians are the nation Jesus referred to in Matthew 21:43. Isaiah 66 read in all its context, rules out that it could be about the Jewish people. Read Isaiah 66:5 especially.
    Actually it is both and they will be just a small minority in the new nation of Beulah.
    It is the 144,000 Christians who will proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19 is proof.
    The five + quotes of Jesus plainly state that heaven is not an option for the Church. This truth doesn't reconcile with the false rapture idea. Why must you believe it?

    Your reply 14/, is basically a whine of frustration, because your beliefs are challenged and you have no solid Biblical support for you fanciful ideas. Poor you!
  19. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought


    1. I don't know where you got the notion I believed in more than one 1000 year millennial reign?
    Show where I said this!

    2. Ephesians 1:3 is not about going to Heaven physically.
    We are set in Heaven as partakers of God's blessings because we are one in Christ and because we can go boldly into the throne of God in time of need. Jerry kelso
  20. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought