Modesty for men and women

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Most things are clear when they match your views.

and clear things get muddled when they don't match yours..

Scripture also makes it clear that in Christ there is neither male nor female.

when we look at ephesians 5:21 through 6:29 as well as colossians 3:18-25 we realize the LORD was not doing away with gender/class distinctions or authority but was simply saying that all who are in Christ have equal value as human beings.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Ok I get your point. Its why so many christian men despair at todays women. You have a set of ideals you believe are god given, while despairing that you have lost connection to women in todays society who view your concept of women in christianity as ridiculous. We dont agree with your view of the bible. We see it and your views of women as being tragically outdated and totally irrelevant to us. Your views alienate us. What's more is you dont seem to have looked around... if you had youd suddenly realise... women dont need you to survive, and they commonly lead you.

I've definitely looked around and seen how women's "liberation" has lead to the degradation of marriage and family, the mass murder of unborn children, and forms of prostitution being seen as "empowering". women following their great grandmother Eve in taking what is forbidden to grasp power only to embrace death.

if it's any consolation, I don't blame women for this. this is what happens to society when men don't do their job of protecting, loving, and leading.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

He's doing more than that. He's interpreting, applying and embellishing significantly.

if you want to challenge his exegesis of scripture you're welcomed to do so.

saying "you're wrong and you're a man!" isn't gonna get it done however.

 

[Zoii]

I've definitely looked around and seen how women's "liberation" has lead to the degradation of marriage and family, the mass murder of unborn children, and forms of prostitution being seen as "empowering". women following great grandmother Eve in taking what is forbidden to grasp power only to embrace death.

if it's any consolation, I don't blame women for this. this is what happens to society when men don't do their job of protecting, loving, and leading.

Its something you have to find a path to reconcile. Your views in my age group are (and i promise im not trying to hurt you) just so superfluous and irrelevant. You see its not that we dont read the bible, its just you take a first century view and try to fit your interpretation to todays women. You fail to see that girls perform better at school the boys. We have bright futures. We are leading change. We chair companies and we are the doctors that treat you when your physically and mentally unwell. We hadnt needed men to arrive at that point. So if you want to be part of our spiritual education then it works better for you and your peers when you review your paradighm .. your current one will result in most women thinking your ridiculous.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Its something you have to find a path to reconcile. Your views in my age group are (and i promise im not trying to hurt you) just so superfluous and irrelevant. You see its not that we dont read the bible, its just you take a first century view and try to fit your interpretation to todays women. You fail to see that girls perform better at school the boys. We have bright futures. We are leading change. We chair companies and we are the doctors that treat you when your physically and mentally unwell. We hadnt needed men to arrive at that point. So if you want to be part of our spiritual education then it works better for you and your peers when you review your paradighm .. your current one will result in most women thinking your ridiculous.

i'd expect no less from rebels.

 

[Paidiske]

Careful, The W. It's one thing to voice your own opinion, it's quite another to flame others for theirs.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Careful, The W. It's one thing to voice your own opinion, it's quite another to flame others for theirs.

no fire whatsoever. i'm honestly making a point of fact.

social and moral decay of society doesn't matter because......POWER!

 

[Paidiske]

Calling someone else a "rebel" goes beyond fact to a character assessment.

As to the rest, I'd say that society is no less decayed now than it was a hundred years ago. We just express it differently.

It's true that many people idolise power, but I think that can be found as much in the men demanding women's submission, as in the women seeking to control others.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I want to address something the OP noted throughout his presentation.

there's a good reason Scripture does not make a point of addressing modesty for men. men are visual creatures and the LORD gave all the nice curves to women because this is how He wanted it. men don't have curvaceous bodies and even when we talk about muscular men, women tend to look at this as an indicator of ambition and disciple rather than eyecandy. they see what's beyond the muscular physique(though there are exceptions).

the parts of a woman's body are beautiful and comely to behold and the LORD understands this which is why He makes a point to tell women to cover these things and a point to men that they should not be so enticed by a woman's physical beauty.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Calling someone else a "rebel" goes beyond fact to a character assessment

it becomes fact when the assessment is accurate

As to the rest, I'd say that society is no less decayed now than it was a hundred years ago. We just express it differently.

which basically means that two wrongs actually don't make a right.

It's true that many people idolise power, but I think that can be found as much in the men demanding women's submission, as in the women seeking to control others.

one is based on the created the order while the other is part of the curse. though, men abusing their God given authority if part of the curse too.

 

[Paidiske]

it becomes fact when the assessment is accurate

That doesn't make it okay to say it on CF.

which basically means that two wrongs actually don't make a right.

No, they don't, but it also means that social changes for women haven't degraded society, they've just changed it.

one is based on the created the order while the other is part of the curse. though, men abusing their God given authority if part of the curse too.

Any abuse of power, or seeking of power for its own sake, is part of human fallenness; the hierarchical relationships you call the "created order" is a result of the fall, not either our original state or how things should be for the redeemed.

 

[Zoii]

i'd expect no less from rebels.

I can only educate... try not to react and think on what ive said

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

but it also means that social changes for women haven't degraded society, they've just changed it.

is you find the destruction of marriage and family, abortion, and "prostitutional empowerment" as merely "changes" then yeah sure.

the hierarchical relationships you call the "created order" is a result of the fall, not either our original state or how things should be for the redeemed.

I didn't write ephesians 5:22-24, colossians 3:18, or 1 Corinthians 11:8-10. those are God's Word's. take it up with Him..

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Me a rebel... haha i like that ty

I know you do hun...

 

[PollyJetix]

The logic and type of Scripture interpretation used in the OP of this thread is precisely how the old Kings of England maintained their "divine right" to rule as they wished, enforcing their will on those they believed it was their "divine right" to dominate.

And they used Scripture to do it.
The same way this OP used Scripture.

If males have the "divine right" to dominate females,
then America lives in continual rebellion against the "divine right" of England's monarchy.

 

[Paidiske]

is you find the destruction of marriage and family, abortion, and "prostitutional empowerment" as merely "changes" then yeah sure.

Balance them against other things. I'm no expert in American history, but as I understand it, we've traded one set of problems for another over time.

I know given a choice, there's no previous period of history I'd have preferred to live in, for sheer life expectancy if nothing else.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

If males have the "divine right" to dominate females

this is a common canard used by feminists to demonize the opposition while never actually dealing with their actual position.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Education today, and for the last hunderd yeers, is ungodly worldwide.
Probably for many hunderds of yeers.

Women's lib, immodesty, the truth of it, is buried so deep only God's Grace is able to allow anyone, anywhere to see the truth.
But that's not new - it's many centuries old,
just new and terrible and
visible consequences -
as society accepts immorality blatantly,
and as society accepts outrageous sinful behavior and calls it "good" ! !
and so condmns itself.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know given a choice, there's no previous period of history I'd have preferred to live in, for sheer life expectancy if nothing else.

Tangent, since it's mentioned- "life expectancy" as been "spun" as our great great grandfathers and grandmothers would point out if they were here.
So many babies died young or at birth, when averaged in with the longer lives of adults ,
and those statistics are (always) spun for the unrighteous reasons the insurance and the sickness industries have.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Well, we've opened a can of worms with this one haven't we. Unless any of us feel qualified to rewrite the bible and Christianity, and everything it teaches about purity and godliness (as well as authority), then both men and women ought to dress modestly, that shouldn't be hard or complicated to agree on in principle at least, if we have been converted to Christ in truth.

Neither men or women can change the nature of our general shape, nor should we try to, since men should not dress as women and women should not dress as men......men are masculine and women are feminine and there is a point where the onus is on each one to get over that, up to a point. Because otherwise we would all have to walk around in burqas, both men and women..........and all that has served to do for those folks.....is to give power to sin. However, out of consideration for one another, is it too much to ask that we all try and dress in a way that doesn't particularly advertise any part, because it is distracting for the opposite sex, plain and simple. It's not that anybody needs to feel ashamed for having male and female attributes, since we were all created in a way that was good to God.

And I just want to make the point that what is distracting does change with the culture to a certain extent, for example there was a time when the sight of a woman's ankle was a distraction to men, but that isn't the case today. And being considerate also considers the nature of the occasion, eg, a wedding, a job interview, or the beach, etc......we don't want to offend or attract undue attention for example, showing up for a job interview in around-the-house clothes, or show up for somebody's wedding in beach attire, or taking your kids on a picnic wearing a suit or a gown. It's not that as Christians we judge others by what they are wearing, but we ourselves need to take into account the world to some extent, not to give others an occasion to stumble unnecessarily.