Millennialism is no longer part of Christianity

[redleghunter]

But his answer mirrors his answer about earth's last day.

How so?

 

[Dave L]

How so?

Nobody knows the day or hour or the times and seasons the Father has put in his own power.

 

[redleghunter]

But his answer mirrors his answer about earth's last day.

Yes that’s right. Jesus told them not to concern themselves with timelines. He did not, however, dismiss the question as invalid.

 

[Dave L]

Yes that’s right. Jesus told them not to concern themselves with timelines. He did not, however, dismiss the question as invalid.

The new birth and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit began Israel's restoration. Israel = believers only. and it culminates on the last day in the resurrection (restoration) of our bodies into the New Heavens and Earth.

 

[redleghunter]

The new birth and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit began Israel's restoration. Israel = believers only. and it culminates on the last day in the resurrection (restoration) of our bodies into the New Heavens and Earth.

I don’t see how what you wrote and an end-times restoration of a remnant of Israel in Christ are mutually exclusive. In fact it is not. Even Augustine saw Jews coming to Christ before the Second Advent.

 

[Dave L]

I don’t see how what you wrote and an end-times restoration of a remnant of Israel in Christ are mutually exclusive. In fact it is not. Even Augustine saw Jews coming to Christ before the Second Advent.

The Church is biblical Israel. Ethnic Jews are the broken off unbelievers whom God will reattach upon any having faith in Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

The Church is biblical Israel. Ethnic Jews are the broken off unbelievers whom God will reattach upon any having faith in Christ.

Until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21:24

Romans 11:25

We cannot ignore this.

But you are right. Jesus is the Vine. There is no other.

I’m sure you have been exposed to hyper Dispensational theory which does violence to the Scriptures. However, if we read the Scriptures plainly, we come back with a futurist approach. Didn’t say Dispensational, but futurist.

I’m Reformed as well. How Reformed who literally and plainly draw the truth of
soteriology from the Scriptures end up applying imagery and allegory to Biblical prophecy is still a mystery to me. I’ll have to explore this more on why.

I mean no Reformed scholar would take Isaiah 53 and promote imagery or allegory. The Jewish scholars today do that and claim Isaiah 53 is an image of Israel.

Sure there are symbols and imagery in some OT and NT prophecy but it is usually explained.

What can we take away literally?

There will be a tribulation before the second coming of Christ. There will be a millennial Kingdom before the final Judgment. That’s what the Bible teaches.

 

[Dave L]

Until the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Luke 21:24

Romans 11:25

We cannot ignore this.

But you are right. Jesus is the Vine. There is no other.

I’m sure you have been exposed to hyper Dispensational theory which does violence to the Scriptures. However, if we read the Scriptures plainly, we come back with a futurist approach. Didn’t say Dispensational, but futurist.

I’m Reformed as well. How Reformed who literally and plainly draw the truth of
soteriology from the Scriptures end up applying imagery and allegory to Biblical prophecy is still a mystery to me. I’ll have to explore this more on why.

I mean no Reformed scholar would take Isaiah 53 and promote imagery or allegory. The Jewish scholars today do that and claim Isaiah 53 is an image of Israel.

Sure there are symbols and imagery in some OT and NT prophecy but it is usually explained.

What can we take away literally?

There will be a tribulation before the second coming of Christ. There will be a millennial Kingdom before the final Judgment. That’s what the Bible teaches.

The Jews in Israel are biblical gentiles trodding down Jerusalem. When Christ abolished circumcision, he removed all physical unbelievers from Israel.

 

[redleghunter]

The Jews in Israel are biblical gentiles trodding down Jerusalem. When Christ abolished circumcision, he removed all physical unbelievers from Israel.

No one mentioned circumcision. And I personally don’t think anyone takes seriously that the Zionist government currently in power is the remnant mentioned by Paul.

Any remnant will be IN CHRIST. I thought I made that previously clear.

The very testimony that the Hebrew people are a distinct people after everything they have been through over two millennia should be a hint God is not finished with His promises. All the promises are or will be fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

 

[Dave L]

No one mentioned circumcision. And I personally don’t think anyone takes seriously that the Zionist government currently in power is the remnant mentioned by Paul.

Any remnant will be IN CHRIST. I thought I made that previously clear.

The very testimony that the Hebrew people are a distinct people after everything they have been through over two millennia should be a hint God is not finished with His promises. All the promises are or will be fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

They are a false religion who intermarry within the system and accept converts.

 

[redleghunter]

They are a false religion who intermarry within the system and accept converts.

Yes as Paul said they are enemies to the faith. Now. We too were hostile to God before His Grace saved us.

 

[Biblewriter]

The indisputable fact that the formal church turned away from the doctrine of Millennialism, which was formerly called chilism, is totally immaterial. For as time passed, they gave up many of the essential doctrines of Christianity, most importantly, that of salvation by grace through faith, substituting a false doctrine of salvation by works.

While Revelation 20 is the only place where we are told how long the future earthly kingdom will last, anyone who denies that there will be a physical kingdom of God established on this earth at the return of Christ, is denying a literal host of explicitly stated scriptures.

 

[Dave L]

The indisputable fact that the formal church turned away from the doctrine of Millennialism, which was formerly called chilism, is totally immaterial. For as time passed, they gave up many of the essential doctrines of Christianity, most importantly, that of salvation by grace through faith, substituting a false doctrine of salvation by works.

While Revelation 20 is the only place where we are told how long the future earthly kingdom will last, anyone who denies that there will be a physical kingdom of God established on this earth at the return of Christ, is denying a literal host of explicitly stated scriptures.

Revelation 20 is not to be understood literally. But symbolically. Millennialism is Phariseeism that Jesus proved wrong in the gospels.

 

[dqhall]

The indisputable fact that the formal church turned away from the doctrine of Millennialism, which was formerly called chilism, is totally immaterial. For as time passed, they gave up many of the essential doctrines of Christianity, most importantly, that of salvation by grace through faith, substituting a false doctrine of salvation by works.

While Revelation 20 is the only place where we are told how long the future earthly kingdom will last, anyone who denies that there will be a physical kingdom of God established on this earth at the return of Christ, is denying a literal host of explicitly stated scriptures.

Should you look beyond the worldly, towards the spiritual?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

 

[Biblewriter]

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I find it laughable when people who worship on Sunday (saying the 10 commandments were done away with in a new covenant) start talking about spiritual Israel and the saved.
Do you not consider the implications of this? If the spirit is given to us and talks to our hearts, and his laws are written on our hearts (which is actually what the new covenant really is), how can you continue to debate from this angle and yet ignore the Seventh Day Sabbath. It is the ONLY day that God sanctified and made Holy.
You have to start joining the dots in these things.

Also, to say the disciples and apostles did not believe in such things is a porky.
How can church doctrines derived from many dozens of writers over the first few decades allow for all said writers to have identical philosophies when these writers wrote largely from different focal points? (That is a stupid argument and absurd).
The overriding theme of course is consistent...but not finer points of doctrine.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I find it laughable when people who worship on Sunday (saying the 10 commandments were done away with in a new covenant) start talking about spiritual Israel and the saved.
Do you not consider the implications of this? If the spirit is given to us and talks to our hearts, and his laws are written on our hearts (which is actually what the new covenant really is), how can you continue to debate from this angle and yet ignore the Seventh Day Sabbath. It is the ONLY day that God sanctified and made Holy.
You have to start joining the dots in these things.

How can one argue that the Church and Israel share identity as God's People, under two entirely different covenants, one made exclusively with the Jewish people as part of the covenant made with them on Mt. Horeb; and the other made inclusively with the whole world by the crucified flesh and shed blood of the Incarnate God-Man in which the former covenant and all its ritual, rites, and rules abrogated by the new and better covenant?

Well, very easily. A simple reading of the New Testament should suffice on this matter.

Also, to say the disciples and apostles did not believe in such things is a porky.

If they had believed it necessary of Christ's Faithful to observe the Shabbat they would have said so. Except not only did they not say that we must observe the Shabbat, they taught the exact opposite.

How can church doctrines derived from many dozens of writers over the first few decades allow for all said writers to have identical philosophies when these writers wrote largely from different focal points?(That is a stupid argument and absurd).
The overriding theme of course is consistent...but not finer points of doctrine.

Could you clarify what exactly you're saying here?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[d taylor]

There are a lot of jeffersonian christians, just do not like or believe part of the Bible then just make a theology that will reduce what you do not believe. And move it to metaphorical or spiritual files/meanings.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There are a lot of jeffersonian christians, just do not like or believe part of the Bible then just make a theology that will reduce what you do not believe. And move it to metaphorical or spiritual files/meanings.

Hoc est corpus meum.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Don't forget that ὃ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα 1 Pet 3:21