Millennialism is no longer part of Christianity

[HTacianas]

I keep seeing people posting their ideas on the future "millennium", but millennialism was abolished by the first Council of Constantinople, and the Nicene Creed was changed to read, regarding Christ's kingdom, "whose kingdom shall have no end".

Millennialism is contrary to the Nicene Creed.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus and the disciples were all Amillennial = no millennium.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Dave L]

Zechariah 14 shows that Israel will again return to her land and rebuild. There will later be a war, and then comes the time of year to year coming to Jerusalem to worship the King and keep the feast of tabernacles.

The dead of the just will take their seats to reign with Jesus Christ more than one thousand years before the dead of the wicked will even rise from their graves to be sent to the lake of fire.

The day of victory (vv. 1–5, 12–15)

The chapter opens with Zechariah portraying Jerusalem being surrounded by enemies. It is his way of depicting one of the primary features of the gospel age, namely, the people of God being hated and opposed! Jerusalem is his way of representing the saints of the gospel age, and the details offered here (‘houses rifled’, ‘women ravished’, ‘captivity’—v. 2) are particularly graphic ways of depicting the calamities that would befall the people of God during the whole of that era. Although serious and heart-wrenching, however, the calamities would never be sufficient to deprive God of his people. The remnant would never be ‘cut off’ (v. 2).
The opposers of God’s people will find themselves opposed! The Lord Jesus, who ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9–12), will return from heaven to that same mount—an event of such overwhelming significance that the prophet could only convey it in terms of the mount itself splitting in two (v. 4)! The Lord’s coming will put an end to the enemies of the saints because ‘the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem’ (v. 12). In horrific terms the prophet describes what awaits God’s foes—flesh, eyes and tongues will all ‘dissolve’ (v. 12). And these foes will be seized with ‘a great panic from the LORD’ (v. 13).


Ellsworth, R. (2010). Opening Up Zechariah (pp. 132–133). Leominster: Day One Publications.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I keep seeing people posting their ideas on the future "millennium", but millennialism was abolished by the first Council of Constantinople, and the Nicene Creed was changed to read, regarding Christ's kingdom, "whose kingdom shall have no end".

Millennialism is contrary to the Nicene Creed.

While I agree with much that you write here on CF, I think the jury is still out on most of the Eschatological front ...

 

[Dave L]

While I agree with much that you write here on CF, I think the jury is still out on most of the Eschatological front ...

There is no mention of a millennium in the NT. Revelation 20 symbolizes the binding of Satan with the 1000 years symbol.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I keep seeing people posting their ideas on the future "millennium", but millennialism was abolished by the first Council of Constantinople, and the Nicene Creed was changed to read, regarding Christ's kingdom, "whose kingdom shall have no end".

Millennialism is contrary to the Nicene Creed.

I think there are little phrases within the Creed that often folks don't realize what they mean.

We all tend to understand something to mean what we already believe to be true. It makes it hard to really objectively look at Scripture, theology, etc. Studying historical Christianity and where certain ideas actually were introduced, etc. is very eye-opening. But it can be very challenging, especially to people who tie faith/salvation particularly to the idea of holding certain doctrines. Anything that challenges their beliefs challenges their salvation (so they may fear). If a person is not ready, it can be counterproductive to insist. Thankfully, it is not like a factual final exam is going to be our salvation.

 

[Erik Nelson]

still think it's possible, and possibly necessary, to interpret OT prophesies "spiritually"

true spiritual Israel --> Christians (Messianic Jews + Christian gentiles)
true spiritual Temple --> Christians
true spiritual Jerusalem (in Israel encompassing the Temple) --> Christians

If so, OT Prophesies do not apply to physical Jerusalem, a physical temple or national Israel.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

There is no mention of a millennium in the NT. Revelation 20 symbolizes the binding of Satan with the 1000 years symbol.

You're entitled to your view, Dave ... However, I'm not one who takes any particular viewpoint on Eschatology/Apocalypticism. Rather, I survey, review, and study all of the viewpoints so as to be aware of as much humanly invigorated insight as I can: AND in saying this, I tend to think that the Lord hasn't really intended for us to 'know' His Eschatological plans in a way that enables us to play some kind of exacting 'matching game.'

But oh how some of us Christians seem to be so sure of what it all means and how it's all going to work out ............................. I do have to chuckle at that.

 

[Dave L]

You're entitled to your view, Dave ... However, I'm not one who takes any particular viewpoint on Eschatology/Apocalypticism. Rather, I survey, review, and study all of the viewpoints so as to be aware of as much humanly invigorated insight as I can: AND in saying this, I tend to think that the Lord hasn't really intended for us to 'know' His Eschatological plans in a way that enables us to play some kind of exacting 'matching game.'

But oh how some of us Christians seem to be so sure of what it all means and how it's all going to work out ............................. I do have to chuckle at that.

Some of us know because faith comes from hearing the word. You cannot have faith based on theory or conjecture.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Some of us know because faith comes from hearing the word. You cannot have faith based on theory or conjecture.

That's debatable, Dave. And while the denomination I most frequently associate with also tends to affirm Amillennialism, I don't think we have enough hermeneutical insight as a Whole Church to know for certain how God intends to work out His Will in history and into the future ...

Also, be careful with your language. One could almost interpret it to mean that you think someone like myself is somehow "outside" the faith.

 

[Dave L]

That's debatable, Dave. And while the denomination I most frequently associate with also tends to flout Amillennialism, I don't think we have enough hermeneutical insight as a Whole Church to know for certain how God intends to work out His Will in history and into the future ...

Also, be careful with your language. One could almost interpret it to mean that you think someone like myself is somehow "outside" the faith.

If the millennium is not mentioned in scripture, how can you have faith in it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If the millennium is not mentioned in scripture, how can you have faith in it?

First, I need to make a correction. Where I said my church 'flouts' Amillennialism, I should have written 'affirms' Amillennialism. [Sorry for the confusion.]

Secondly, faith comes by hearing, as Paul said in his letter to the Romans, but as Paul also said in his 1st letter to the Corinithians, the ideas and language we use are spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and it is God who also enables us to accept His Word. Moreover, Paul also said that we see "through a glass darkly," so it's not as if we have faith BECAUSE we come to understand all things that God tells us. No, it's because we hear about Christ specifically, and we understand how His life, death and resurrection provide us reconciliation to the Father through the Holy Spirit. However, being enabled to become a Christian doesn't also mean we have understood ALL that God has revealed about ... the future.

 

[Dave L]

First, I need to make a correction. Where I said my church 'flouts' Amillennialism, I should have written 'affirms' Amillennialism. [Sorry for the confusion.]

Secondly, faith comes by hearing, as Paul said in his letter to the Romans, but as Paul also said in his 1st letter to the Corinithians, the ideas and language we use are spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and it is God who also enables us to accept His Word. Moreover, Paul also said that we see "through a glass darkly," so it's not as if we have faith BECAUSE we come to understand all things that God tells us. No, it's because we hear about Christ specifically, and we understand how His life, death and resurrection provide us reconciliation to the Father through the Holy Spirit. However, being enabled to become a Christian doesn't also mean we have understood ALL that God has revealed about ... the future.

If you hear from scripture, you have faith. And I have faith that Jesus and all the NT believers were Amillennial. It is solidly presented in scripture.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If you hear from scripture, you have faith. And I have faith that Jesus and all the NT believers were Amillennial. It is solidly presented in scripture.

No, it's actually very debatable, Dave. Tell me this--what other viewpoints have you read from top-notch theologians who advocate for any of the other positions in Eschatology? I mean, there's nearly a dozen various mainstream interpretive frameworks by which Biblical Apocalypticism is handled. I think it's safe to say that no one denomination or tradition within Chrisitianity has the 'final interpretive linchpin' when it comes to deciphering what the Prophets, Jesus, and His Apostles have delivered to us for our consideration of eschatology ...

 

[Dave L]

No, it's actually very debatable, Dave. Tell me this--what other viewpoints have you read from top-notch theologians who advocate for any of the other positions in Eschatology? I mean, there's nearly a dozen various mainstream interpretive frameworks by which Biblical Apocalypticism is handled. I think it's safe to say that no one denomination or tradition within Chrisitianity has the 'final interpretive linchpin' when it comes to deciphering what the Prophets, Jesus, and His Apostles have delivered to us for our consideration of eschatology ...

It is only debatable to those unfamiliar with the NT passages concerning it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is only debatable to those unfamiliar with the NT passages concerning it.

Bro, I'm confident that I'm about as familiar with the respective NT passages as you are.

 

[Dave L]

Bro, I'm confident that I'm about as familiar with the respective NT passages as you are.

I know what I believe, do you?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I know what I believe, do you?

In general, yes I 'know' what I believe. I also have an understanding of Hermeneutics and Epistemology, both secular and biblical. But, does it matter all that much to the OP? My point here isn't to do to others what seems to be implied to me by others here: I'm not disparaging your faith, or your view on Amillennialism. As far as I'm concerned you're a firm brother in Christ. You might not see me as your brother in Christ if I don't think Amillennialism is the only eschatological game in town, but I still value your faith all the same. It might even turn out that if we were to do the real hermeneutical work of sifting through every verse in the Bible together, we might even have some common understandings on what we think they mean or ways in which we think they spiritually apply.

So, let's not go off on each other here and turn this into a baseball throwing contest to see who is the 'better' pitcher. My intention is to simply, but gently, contest the main point of the OP.

 

[dqhall]

There is no mention of a millennium in the NT. Revelation 20 symbolizes the binding of Satan with the 1000 years symbol.

Jesus will return for his "second coming" to judge the quick and the dead. There are not enough verses to support a theory Jesus will return to bind Satan for a thousand years, return to loose Satan to wreck havoc on mankind and then later return to judge the quick and the dead ending the prevalence of evil in the universe.

I am not a millenialist, but look for Jesus' second coming at the end of this world.