Marilyn C

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Pretty darn close.

OT Church:

Ex 19:5-6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine:

6 And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

KJV

NT Church:


1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:


10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV.


Hi Davy,

Great scriptures there bro. So let`s take a real close look.

Israel the nation were promised by God that they would be - `a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.` (Ex. 19: 6)

Then the Body of Christ is promised by God that they are - `a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...`(1 Peter 2: 9)


Do you see the difference?

Israel - kingdom/rulership of priests.
Body of Christ - royal priesthood, royal=king, thus kingpriests.


This is confirmed in Rev. 1: 6 `...and has made us kings and priests....`
Also note the Lord`s priesthood is of the Melchizedek order a king and a priest. (Heb.6: 20 & 7: 1 & 2)
This is a higher order than just priests. That is the Body of Christ`s high calling to be kings and priests in the third heaven whereas the nation of Israel will consist of one king and many priests.

regards, Marilyn.






 
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Marilyn C

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Well, it's true that we, as followers of Christ, and children of God (the Israel of God), are a royal priesthood tasked with spreading the gospel, but I thought you were asking about the original physical nation of Israel, not the Israel of God.

On the other hand, if we dissect the meaning of the term "Israel", that nation really was the same thing as the nation of which I am a citizen today. Even the Israel of old, was so called because they were the "people of God". The only difference being that even those who rejected God were graciously allowed to remain citizens of Israel, whereas today (since Christ) anyone who does not believe is not a citizen of Israel for that reason.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the point of your question was.

Hi LastSeven,

You may like to read what I wrote to Davy as it explains what I mean regarding the nation of Israel and the Body of Christ and their eternal inheritances in Christ.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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Davy

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Hi Davy,

Great scriptures there bro. So let`s take a real close look.

Israel the nation were promised by God that they would be - `a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.` (Ex. 19: 6)

Then the Body of Christ is promised by God that they are - `a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...`(1 Peter 2: 9)


Do you see the difference?

Israel - kingdom/rulership of priests.
Body of Christ - royal priesthood, royal=king, thus kingpriests.


This is confirmed in Rev. 1: 6 `...and has made us kings and priests....`
Also note the Lord`s priesthood is of the Melchizedek order a king and a priest. (Heb.6: 20 & 7: 1 & 2)
This is a higher order than just priests. That is the Body of Christ`s high calling to be kings and priests in the third heaven whereas the nation of Israel will consist of one king and many priests.

regards, Marilyn.

They're both the same except the NT royal priesthood idea is equally applied to the believing Gentiles in Christ Jesus. The ethnos will still exist in Christ's future Kingdom, even when Israel is made a nation again like in king David's time. The ethnos will also be priests and kings over the Gentile nations that are saved.
 
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Stephen Mendes

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Hi Marilyn,

I am saying both.... let us read together shall we ?

Isaiah 42:4 "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law."

Habakkuk 2:14 "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

Isaiah 2:3 "and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

Zechariah 8:23 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

Zechariah 14:16 "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

Let us continue where Jesus left off.... when reading Isaiah in the synagogue at Capernaum ..... Jesus said, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me........ to preach the acceptable year of the Lord" (Isaiah 61:1 - 2)....... but you know it goes on.... let us see what it says.....

"And foreigners shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien, shall be your plowmen and vinedressers. But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord, men shall call you the Ministers of our God, ye shall eat the riches of the nations, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves." Isaiah 61:5 - 6

Some of you hate the present day nation of Israel for various reasons..... maybe their treatment of the Palestinians ...... or their present animosity towards Jesus Christ.... or perhaps their wealth and worldly success.... there are lots of reasons people dislike Jews.

But what you fail to realize is that GOD is able to purge 'national Israel' ....... "
When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning." (Isaiah 4:4)

If you have read all of Isaiah you will realize that God punishes all of the nations that he used to punish Israel... because of their own iniquity..... and because their hearts were lifted up with PRIDE..... and because they refused to recognize that GOD was sovereign but praised their own wisdom and abilities (or else gave the credit to their false 'gods').

As Paul said Israel is beloved for their righteous forefathers sake ..... and because of the promises that God made to them.

God is well able to remove iniquity from national Israel and turn them to Jesus Christ...... for the Bible says...

Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

The purpose that God has for national Israel on the earth ..... is different from that of the church (the bride of Christ)...... the real problem is that the church wants what is promised to national Israel..... wealth and earthly power...... greed and envy are at the core of hatred of Jews.

It is not that God loves Jews more than all the people on the face of the earth just because they were born Jewish ..... because that is nonsense...... remember Rahab the harlot ? ..... Ruth the Moabitess ?

The Canaanite nations could have made peace with Israel and worshiped the LORD..... but instead they chose to make war and try to destroy Israel.

The Palestinians of 2017 refuse to abandon their hostility towards Israel and accept their station in life ..... even if it is subservient to Israel.

Everybody wants to be the head..... nobody wants to be the tail..... all hearts lifted up with PRIDE..... everyone wanting to be rich and powerful.

Again the Word of the Lord says in Isaiah 66:2 "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word"

1 Corinthians 1:29 warns us that "That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Unfortunately as I look around the world today even in many so-called 'Christian' circles is 'flesh glorying'...... this is not to say that there are not humble and teachable souls whom the Lord can use for His glory all over the place...... it's just there has been a global escalation in Pride and Arrogance so that even the church has been tainted with it...... let US all judge ourselves ..... lest we become wise in our own conceits

Have a blessed day !
 
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Davy

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The purpose that God has for national Israel on the earth ..... is different from that of the church (the bride of Christ)...... the real problem is that the church wants what is promised to national Israel..... wealth and earthly power...... greed and envy are at the core of hatred of Jews.

Sorry, but you simply have been deceived.

The majority of God's Birthright Promises went to believing Israel in Christ Jesus, but not to unbelieving Jews. Ever heard of the Western Christian Nations?

In the parable of the husbandmen and vineyard of Matt.21, Jesus said the Kingdom would be taken from those unbelieving Jews and given to another nation that would bear its fruit.

Matt 21:42-43
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

KJV

At that time the priesthood was a mess, even had foreigners in it (per Josephus). King Herod was an Idumean of the seed of Esau, and appointed by the Romans. The foreigner Nethinims of the Book of Ezra and Nehemiah dwelt in the city of David. And the scribes in charge of keeping God's Word were the Kenite foreigners from the nations of Canaan (1 Chron.2:55). No wonder many of the scribes and Pharisees were so corrupt and wanted to kill Jesus. God warned Israel early on about allowing the foreigner Canaanites in to live with them. He told Israel He would thus let them dwell with Israel to test His people with (Judges 2 & 3).

Since Zedekiah king of Judah, Jerusalem has had no valid king of the seed of David. That ended in Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day.

God's promises to Abraham of great number of seed, as many as the sands of the sea and stars of the sky, great material wealth, great number of resources, controlling the gates of their enemies, ended upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chron.5). That's about God's Birthright.

Per Genesis 48, Ephraim's seed was to become "a multitude of nations". And his brother Manasseh was also to become "great".

That was fulfilled when the Jews in Jerusalem rejected The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and then The Gospel was preached to the nations of Asia Minor and Europe, creating the western Christian nations, the "multitude of nations" of Ephraim. THAT... is where God's Kingdom was moved to and given to those who would bear its fruit!

And Christian ambassadors have been sent all over the world to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ to the nations! Who did it? Those of Christ's Church that began mainly in the west after the Jews rejected Jesus. Many Jews in the western nations then converted to Christ Jesus also and became... Christians.

So consternation against Christ's Church which now represents where God moved His Kingdom to, just does not fly. It shows instead how unbelieving Jews think to steal... God's Kingdom back. No wonder He is bringing the unbelieving Jews a false messiah to worship in our near future!
 
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LastSeven

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Hi LastSeven,

You may like to read what I wrote to Davy as it explains what I mean regarding the nation of Israel and the Body of Christ and their eternal inheritances in Christ.

regards, Marilyn.
I think what you still fail to understand is that "Israel" is the kingdom of God, and only those who believe are members. Those promises were all made to Christ, and all those who are in Christ. That country in the middle east is literally irrelevant.
 
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Marilyn C

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They're both the same except the NT royal priesthood idea is equally applied to the believing Gentiles in Christ Jesus. The ethnos will still exist in Christ's future Kingdom, even when Israel is made a nation again like in king David's time. The ethnos will also be priests and kings over the Gentile nations that are saved.

Hi Davy,

Can you please explain how just priests (Israel) and royal priests/kingpriests (Body of Christ) are the same?

Marilyn.

 
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Marilyn C

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I think what you still fail to understand is that "Israel" is the kingdom of God, and only those who believe are members. Those promises were all made to Christ, and all those who are in Christ. That country in the middle east is literally irrelevant.

Hi LastSeven,

The kingdom/rule of God is over all. God never gave the realms over, He always owned heaven & earth, however it is the rebellious rulership that is being dealt with. So as to the promises, they are specific to the Body of Christ and also to Israel.

As you see them the same, can you please tell me what are the promises to us, our inheritance?

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Stephen,

So can you please clarify that statement for me please; ie are you saying Jesus will rule physically on the earth in the millennium or OVER and through Israel in the millennium?

regards, Marilyn.

Hi Stephen,

I agree that Israel is in God`s purposes. However that (above)is the question I asked. can you explain please?

Marilyn.
 
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LastSeven

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Hi LastSeven,

The kingdom/rule of God is over all. God never gave the realms over, He always owned heaven & earth, however it is the rebellious rulership that is being dealt with. So as to the promises, they are specific to the Body of Christ and also to Israel.

As you see them the same, can you please tell me what are the promises to us, our inheritance?

Marilyn.
Do you want me to list the promises? How about just a few examples: Abraham was promised that his seed (Christ) would become a multitude of nations, and that he would bless those who bless Him (Christ) and curse those who curse Him (Christ), and that his (Christ's) throne would be established forever.

Our inheritance is eternal life, and the new heaven and new earth. Matthew 19:29, Revelation 21:7. God's inheritance is his people. Deuteronomy 32:9.
 
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Davy

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Hi Davy,

Can you please explain how just priests (Israel) and royal priests/kingpriests (Body of Christ) are the same?

Marilyn.

Ezekiel 44 calls them the Zadok (the Just). Christ Jesus is King of Righteousness.

It sounds like you don't believe Christ's promise to His Church to make them priests and kings includes Gentiles in His Church. Is that true?

Why else would you be trying to create a difference between Christ's priests?
 
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Davy

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Hi LastSeven,

The kingdom/rule of God is over all. God never gave the realms over, He always owned heaven & earth, however it is the rebellious rulership that is being dealt with. So as to the promises, they are specific to the Body of Christ and also to Israel.

As you see them the same, can you please tell me what are the promises to us, our inheritance?

Marilyn.

There's different promises God gave to different groups in His Word. The promises He gave to the seed of Israel is about His birthright promises which were first given through Abraham, then transferred to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, and finally to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5).

God's Birthright includes:
1. as many seed as the stars of the sky and sands of the sea; as the dust of the earth (Gen.22:17; Gen.28:14)
2. in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. (this about The Gospel which was first preached to Abraham, 430 years before the law of Moses being given.)
3. the dew of heaven, fatness of the earth, plenty of corn and wine (Gen.27:28)
4. thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies (Gen.22:17)
5. a king of the house of David sitting upon the throne

The number of Israelites of the ten northern tribes of Israel far outnumbered the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin before God split Solomon's kingdom in two. Even thought the ten tribes were scattered and history has lost them, they still exist and will return and they are actually ones who fulfill this Genesis promise of being as many as the dust of the earth, literally. Thing is, they have a heritage from old Israel, but they are not Jews.

The Title Jew:

Per the Jewish historian Josephus, the title of Jew was the title the small remnant of the "house of Judah" called themselves when they returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He said all those living in the lands of Judea took that title, and said it was derived from the name Judah. This is why Apostle Paul would claim the title of Jew even though he was born of the tribe of Benjamin. It was because the tribe of Benjamin was joined with the tribe of Judah when the kingdom was split (1 Kings 11 - 12).

For those who have read their OT history, you should know the ten tribes of the northern kingdom were removed from the land prior... to Judah going captive to Babylon for 70 years (2 Kings 17). So it's impossible to apply that title of Jew to the ten northern tribes of Israel. Yet the ten tribes are Israelites too.

So looking at the birthright promises again from God:

1. they fell upon Joseph's two sons in final, and primarily

1 Chron 5:1-2
5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)
KJV


Jer 31:6
6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.

KJV

Jer 31:9
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn.

KJV

That "Ephraim is My firstborn" is because that is where God's birthright fell in final among the children of Israel.

Thus the majority of the promises would fall upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, not Judah and Benjamin. Is there proof of this through history after Jesus died on the cross and was rejected by the majority of Jews? Yes!

What nations through history have been blessed with the best areas of the earth for natural resources, and produce much more food than they could ever consume? Truly, the western Christian nations. Does the nation state of Israel today have that? No, even though they do well by God's blessings. But clearly, the main producers have been in the west.

What nations control the seas, and the gates of their enemies going and coming? The western Christian nations. Though Bill Clinton allowed China to run the Panama Canal, the U.S. built it and still has quite a bit of say of who all goes through it. Same goes for the Suez and the British. The western Christian nations still have the greatest navies to control the seas. Does the nation state of Israel have that? No.

I don't think we need to argue the point about great number of seed, because if the identity of the ten tribes of Israel were known today, they would way outnumber the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

The western Christian nations have kings upon thrones. They used to have even more kings and queens prior to the Communist revolution, and French revolution. And with all the bad media programs drummed up by Leftists who hate the idea of monarchs, Christ's enemies want you to hate them too, when Christ's Kingdom to come will be the ultimate Monarchy on earth. Does the nation state of Israel have a monarch today in Jerusalem? No.

Per 1 Kings 11, God promised He would leave one tribe in Jerusalem for His servant David's sake and for Jerusalem. Even during the Babylon captivity there was a small poor remnant of Judah still left there. The majority of the Jews captive to Babylon did not return to Jerusalem after the 70 years, but were further scattered through the nations like the ten tribes were. This is still... where things are today, i.e., the majority of the house of Judah is still scattered in the nations along with the ten tribes. The Jews never lost their heritage as part of Israel, but most of the ten tribes did.
 
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Marilyn C

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Do you want me to list the promises? How about just a few examples: Abraham was promised that his seed (Christ) would become a multitude of nations, and that he would bless those who bless Him (Christ) and curse those who curse Him (Christ), and that his (Christ's) throne would be established forever.

Our inheritance is eternal life, and the new heaven and new earth. Matthew 19:29, Revelation 21:7. God's inheritance is his people. Deuteronomy 32:9.

Hi LastSeven,

Thank you for your reply. Now where do you see Christ`s throne will be?

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Ezekiel 44 calls them the Zadok (the Just). Christ Jesus is King of Righteousness.

It sounds like you don't believe Christ's promise to His Church to make them priests and kings includes Gentiles in His Church. Is that true?

Why else would you be trying to create a difference between Christ's priests?

Hi Davy,

Yes I do believe God`s word that we will be kingpriests, (as I wrote earlier) however I don`t believe that Israel was promised that.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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There's different promises God gave to different groups in His Word.

Hi Davy,

You have been doing your homework! Did appreciate and believe a lot of what you say but not when you moved on to the Gentile nations. As to the blessings, yes Reuben was to have the 3 blessings but he sinned, so they passed on to -

1. Birthright - Joseph.
2. Priesthood - Levi.
3. Kingdom (rule) - Judah.

And we know that the Lord is the heir to all three.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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You ask a lot of questions. Why don't you contribute to the conversation a little.

Hi LastSeven.

Oh I thought I was being thoughtful as to finding out more details and not assuming. So what would you like to know from my view?

Marilyn.
 
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Hi Marilyn,

Before I show you the promises to Israel and the promises to the Church.

I really need to take a look at what 'Western Nations Christians' who God supposedly delights in and who have completely 'replaced' the 'irrelevant' Satan-serving Israel..... let's see what 'fruit' they are currently bearing ?

1. Acceptance of HOMOSEXUALITY..... like most of the heathen in the 'Western Nations' .... many churches have either embraced this perversion.... or taken some wishy-washy middle-of-road approach.... instead of outright condemnation of this SIN.

2. Prosperity Gospel..... Charlatan con-men masquerading as 'mega-church televangelists' raking in billions of dollars by twisting the Word of God..... deceiving and fleecing the masses in the name of 'Christ' .... living unchristian 'celebrity lifestyles' and playing to the greed and fleshly desires of their 'congregations'...... but do you denounce them or partake of their sins ?.... what position do you take ?

3. Human centered 'gospel' ..... that puts man and the needs of man above the commandments of GOD.

4. Celebrity entertainment agenda..... that freely mixes so-called 'worship music' with secular music to the point where they are indistinguishable ...... the controversial cases of the 'Cross-over Artistes' who riding high on both Christian and Non-Christian 'charts' and raking in millions.... and the sheer idolatry to both the artist and their music that can be witnessed at any of their 'concerts'.

I would have to conclude that western 'commercial christianity' gets a failing grade according to my Bible...... just like the Jews and the nation of Israel (that so many in here seem to hate).

Is God pleased with all this ? ..... I think not.....

Go read Isaiah 19:13 and Matthew 15:8 ...... and it applies equally to Western Nations as it did to the Jews.

So WHO are the 'true church' ? the bride of Christ ?...... that's easy ..... they are the ones (scattered throughout the earth.... in every country.... and in every church) who are not comfortable with these 'goings-on'...... who worship God with fear and trembling.... who are the despised of the earth..... despised by both the unrighteous heathen as well as the worldly apostate 'christianity'.

Who is willing to take shame and suffering for the name of Christ..... like the early Church endured..... Jesus warned if they have persecuted me they WILL persecute you.... that is Scripture..... but many 'modern christians' fit right in with the world ...... why do the majority do this ? because they don't want no trouble ..... they quick to cosy-up to the LGBT and join the world in pandering to that iniquity..... and any other popular thing that comes along.

There now.... I gone way off-topic.... certain people incited me to it with their postings..... but it just goes to show that once you start messing with the Word ..... it opens the door to every evil work.

See the ripples of error spread..... you wouldn't think that just a Millennial consideration could cause a complete breakdown ...... but once you go wrong on prophecy and start to creatively interpret other passages..... it's not long before the whole thing has changed completely.

Where is the righteous indignation against sin ?
Where is the thirst for righteousness and holiness without which no man shall see God ?

I am not seeing it in some of these postings..... only a haughty attitude against and concerning Israel

let everyone examine themselves and humbly ask God to search their heart and life and route out all that is not pleasing to Him.

Sanctify the Lord of hosts (Isaiah 8:13) ...... and remember that all flesh is as grass that withers and falls and the wind takes it away (Isaiah 40:7)

Let him that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19)

I have been accused of hammering Christians..... making them feel uncomfortable ..... but why should anyone be offended if their relationship and life measure up with God ?...... and if it doesn't, repentance and confession and the cleansing blood of Jesus ensures that one can start with a clean slate again ?

Nobody should take offence in a Christian forum...... it should be all love, joy, peace..... forgiveness.....

We should be magnifying the Lord of Hosts and seeking His Glory ..... and TRUTH ....... we are not important.... only God matters...... does not the Bible say this plainly ?
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

Before I show you the promises to Israel and the promises to the Church.

Hi Stephen,

Good comments there bro, however probably better on its own thread. So now I await your view of the `promises` to Israel and also to the Body of Christ. (I like to use that phrase as the word `Church` has been highjacked, I believe.)

regards, Marilyn.
 
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LastSeven

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Hi LastSeven.

Oh I thought I was being thoughtful as to finding out more details and not assuming. So what would you like to know from my view?

Marilyn.
Well, for starters, how about you tell me why you're asking about Christ's throne? It seems way off topic, but I'm guessing you have a point to make. Let's hear it.
 
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