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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Stephen Mendes, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    I agree as well but are you sure you know what you've stepped into? If you take the most natural and literal meanings of the text the Holy Spirit still operates as he does in the book of Acts complete with healings, prophecies and tongues. Not all are willing to accept this and cite highly cryptic verses to sweep these manifestations of the Holy Spirit under the first century rug.
     
  2. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Could you please elaborate more on why Rev 11:18 causes problems for premill. Thanks
     
  3. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

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    Yes. Of course I mean to precede every statement with this kind of disclaimer.
     
  4. jesus316

    jesus316 All Truth is in Jesus Supporter

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    Yes. That is my point exactly. Even the experts can't agree at all. This must be explained.
     
  5. Myychael

    Myychael Newbie Supporter

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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  6. Kevin T.

    Kevin T. New Member

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    When Jesus used the word "Scripture", did He refer to the Old Testament only or the modern Bible that we're using now which consist of Old and New Testament (which wasn't existed yet)?

    When Apostle Paul used the word "Scripture", did he refer to the Old Testament only or the modern Bible which included his own words?

    Respectfully,
    Kevin T.
     
  7. Kevin T.

    Kevin T. New Member

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    "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
    John 16:12‭-‬15 ESV
     
  8. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    ?? I'm not sure how that pertains to what I said.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  9. Kevin T.

    Kevin T. New Member

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    "... When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth... "
     
  10. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Stephen,

    Pleased to meet you and I had a look at your blog. Interested to read more of what you say, bro.

    Now my thoughts as to why there are so many different interpretations is that we are coming from the `whole counsel of God` through the Apostle Paul, (Acts 20: 27) through the `savage wolves` era (v. 29) and on now in the `tossed to and fro stage`(Eph. 4: 14).

    However as Kevin has said, it is the Holy Spirit who has led us thus far and He will continue to lead us into all the truth concerning Christ`s character and His Purposes.

    We in this day and age are so blessed to have the main doctrines of truth come across the whole Body of Christ. Yes there is error, and that means we need to study and have discernment.

    So, personally I see the main stumbling block for people reading God`s word is that they put themselves front and centre. Christ is the centre of God`s word and it behoves us to humble ourselves and see what His purposes are for whom He speaks to -

    1. The Nations.
    2. Israel.
    3. The Body of Christ.

    If we have Christ as our focus and what he is doing with those groups, then God`s word becomes very clear.

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  11. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Nations represent the unsaved world.

    Israel represents in Romans 9:6-8 The Church.

    The body of Christ represents the Church.
     
  12. Stephen Mendes

    Stephen Mendes New Member Supporter

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    Hi Marilyn,

    Thanks for your personal note to me and your interest in what I have to say.

    In response to 'many others on this thread'

    The idea that the Church replaces Israel .... and that all the promises made to Israel may now be 'appropriated' by Christians.... is a fundamental error or great proportions.... and will lead to many distortions of other passages.

    I can assure you that persons who read the entire Bible without such 'preconceived ideas already implanted in their minds' come to no such conclusion.

    God has..... present tense... a purpose for Israel..... and will YET be GLORIFIED in them (future events)..... why ?

    Men (man).... the human race.... have free will and can do what they wish..... but when God makes unconditional statements about 'how it is going to go down'.... you can be sure.... it will go down that way (no matter how impossible or improbable that may appear)

    The failure of men does not nullify the purposes of God... God will ultimately be glorified by men (mortal men) and on this Earth.... the remnant Jews will eventually fulfill the function that God has for them to do.

    Really to argue otherwise ..... makes the purposes of God subject to the 'whims of man'.... sorry folks.... the Sovereign God and His eternal purposes..... who has stated that He will not share His Glory..... and that every knee will bow and every tongue confess to Him... who sent Jonah back to Nineveh (in spite of his 'free will' and rebellion)..... this awesome God is fully able to do what He said.... no matter what people say or how they get on.

    At the end of the day.... dear readers.... all human rebellion does is spoil the blessed peace and quality of life that would have come about had spontaneous obedience ensued.

    People just don't get it.... that their pride and arrogance and self-will and rebellion only hurts THEM and maybe the rest of humanity (depending on how much influence they have on human affairs)

    The Great God "who of the stones can raise up children unto Abraham" is neither surprised or alarmed by what 'men... man... anybody' may do.

    I would even venture to suggest that much of these attempts to transfer Jewish promises to 'the Church' are simply manifested antisemitism.

    Many Christians just cannot see how God could elevate a 'group of people' who reject and nationally hate Jesus Christ ..... when they themselves, believe they are ever so righteous and beloved of God..... so naturally they are eager to transfer all Jewish 'benefits' to themselves.

    Sadly lots of Christians have a very inadequate view of GOD..... they have molded the transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and eternal GOD into a 'more manageable image' which accords with their beliefs, desires and capacity to understand Him and His actions.

    Please don't let this be you.... dear reader..... because God reveals Himself to the contrite and the humble....
    cry to Him to bring about these qualities in you through the Holy Spirit and He will do it.

    Believe me humans cannot make themselves humble and contrite..... in fact these divine qualities are rejected by almost everybody on the planet.... they are not even desired among Christians.... yet in God's eyes they are important and if you are serious about knowing God..... well I have said enough..... Goodbye and God Bless
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    What did John the Baptist tell his own people?

    Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


    The most antisemitic thing we can do is to not share the Gospel with a race of people, because we think their time of salvation comes in the future.
    Meanwhile thousands die each year without Christ.




    .
     
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nor should Jews, whether orthodox or believing, think that they only are the receivers of God's promises He made long ago involving The Gospel. The Biblical fact is that God's Birthright promises in final fell upon Ephraim (1 Chron.5), and Ephraim was prophesied to become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). Clearly that "multitude of nations" is not referring to the lands of Israel with that single nation.

    The actual preconceived notion is with what I find in this post that kind of suggests that God's promises didn't fall upon the Christian Church once the Jews in Jerusalem rejected Christ Jesus. Just because it did... happen doesn't mean Judah lost all the promises God gave them. But truly, they did lose many of those promises by rebelling against The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Yet God promised He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem for the sake of His servant David, and for Jerusalem (1 Kings 11). That is what today's nation of Israel in the middleast is about, and it will not include the returning ten tribes of Israel being joined with Judah until Jesus returns (Ezek.37).

    Amen to that.

    But let's not leave out the scattered ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel that never returned to the holy land as a people, and are still scattered today, yet do not call theirselves by the title of Jew. (The title of Jew the Jewish historian Josephus said is the title the small remnant returning from the 70 years Babylon captivity took, and all in the land of Judah took that title also. It never applied to all... the tribes of Israel, but only to the kingdom of Judah in the south which were made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes which left the north and sided with Judah. These things are confirmed by Bible history and Bible prophecy involving the eventual return of the ten tribes when Jesus comes.

    Apostle Paul in Romans 9, when speaking to Gentile Romans, even quoted from the Book of Hosea involving the return of Ephraim and the ten tribes...

    Hos 1:10-11
    10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people', there it shall be said unto them, 'Ye are the sons of the living God.'


    11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

    KJV


    Paul quoted that passage from Hosea about the children of Israel to Gentile Roman Christians...


    Rom 9:25-26
    25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

    26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
    KJV



    When Apostle Paul quoted that Hosea passage to Christian Romans, that made the return of Ephraim (ten tribes) a link to The Gospel and Christian Church involving God's promises. It's because like Paul also taught, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ's future Kingdom (Romans 10:12).
     
  15. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Again, you're being vague. Rather than just quoting scripture, can you explain in your own words what you're trying to say in regards to my point above? I can't even tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing.
     
  16. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You "Claim/Suggest" bible believing Christians are "Antisemitic" if they don't see things your way?

    The Church is the Israel of God, Children Of The Promised Seed, Romans 9:6-8

    The remnant Jew will be "Added To This Church" through faith in Jesus Christ and become the Israel of God also. Romans 11

    Nothing "Antisemitic" about God's truth.

    The Church received a Messiah who walked in Jewish Flesh, Apostles Who Were All Jews, How Could You "Claim/Suggest" These Bible Believers Are "Antisemitic"?

    "The Church" has inherited the covenants, promises, and blessings through faith in Jesus Christ, and is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed.

    Jesus Christ Is The Lord

    Truth7t7
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  17. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi bro,

    Sounds like you think God had to go to plan B because His first plan didn`t work?????

    Marilyn.
     
  18. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Stephen,

    Great truths there bro. Well said, and look forward to more of your writings in your blogs.

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  19. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    That is such a load of bull and an insult too. I'm so sick and tired of people claiming "anti-semitism" just because some of us see a different message in scripture than you do. Your stance is anti-Christ to begin with since you seem to believe the Jews don't need Christ, that they're saved on the basis of their lineage alone, which is anti-scriptural and then on top of that you accuse us of anti-semitism? You have some nerve.
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is what one particularly notable Individual in Scripture had to say about some Semites:

    John 8
    39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.



    He is also the Heir of all of the promises, Jewish and otherwise; is the Head of His Church, Abraham's seed; and shares His promises with it:

    2 Corinthians 1
    20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    Hebrews 1
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Galatians 3
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
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