The Fig Tree Breaks into Leaf

[keras]

At His Return, Christ will fulfil the Autumn festivals, exactly as he did with the Spring festivals during His first advent.

Matthew 24:32-34 – Christ tells us to learn from the fig tree, when it breaks into leaf, we can know that the end is near and the present generation will [can] live to see it all.
Obviously, it was not that generation who heard His prophecy, but He means the last generation before these things take place. They ‘will live to see it all’, means within a persons lifetime. The prophecy in:

Ezekiel 12:25-28 ....it will be put off no longer, you rebellious people [the Jewish people, symbolised by the fig tree] in your lifetime, I will do what I have planned......these prophecies are for a time far off.....the Lord says: there will be no more delays, it will be done.
This tells us that within ‘your lifetime’, when the fig tree ‘breaks into leaf’, that is when Judah again has control of the Land, the Lord will act once more in His creation. Therefore within a lifetime of a person born on or after May 1948, even a little before; we can expect the commencement of the many prophecies about the end times.


Many of the Scriptures that I point out and explain, will conflict with some traditional doctrines and theology. Because of the seriousness of these issues and the probable direct consequences these events will have on you and your family, each reader must draw their own conclusions. Read the prophecies that describe future happenings, carefully comparing the different interpretations as given by various Bible scholars. But, the only real test of truth is God’s infallible Word, read literally (excepting the obvious allegories) From what I have read, most writers on end times subjects, simply ignore a lot of scripture, especially in the Old Testament, and my experience is; that when asked about this, they just do not reply.

Actually, disbelief and being ignored is what I expect when I point out the prophetic scriptures. After all, that was the general reaction to the prophets themselves. I will continue my task of trying to bring understanding to you and whoever cares to listen.

As Ezekiel was told in Ezekiel 33:7, it was his job to warn people, so if they refuse to listen, just can’t see it, don’t want to know, doesn’t suit their preconceived notions, or simply do not care – that is their concern, but I will not be responsible and will have saved myself. Ref: logostelos.info

Acts 13:40-41 Beware lest you bring down upon yourselves the doom prophesied. See this, you scoffers, marvel and begone, for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed that you will never believe when you are told of it.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

At His Return, Christ will fulfil the Autumn festivals, exactly as he did with the Spring festivals during His first advent.

Except Jesus said: Matthew 5:17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The end of the sacrificial system and therefore the law and the passing of heaven and earth happened with the destruction of the temple. Otherwise prove the law is still being kept 100% and they're still sacrificing in the temple.

Matthew 24:32-34

Christ tells us to learn from the fig tree, when it breaks into leaf, we can know that the end is near and the present generation will [can] live to see it all.
Obviously, it was not that generation who heard His prophecy, but He means the last generation before these things take place. They ‘will live to see it all’, means within a persons lifetime. The prophecy in:

Luke says it this way: Luke 21:29Then Jesus told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
What's the antecedent noun that the pronouns are referring to?

Ezekiel 12:25-28

.it will be put off no longer, you rebellious people [the Jewish people, symbolised by the fig tree] in your lifetime, I will do what I have planned......these prophecies are for a time far off.....the Lord says: there will be no more delays, it will be done.
This tells us that within ‘your lifetime’, when the fig tree ‘breaks into leaf’, that is when Judah again has control of the Land, the Lord will act once more in His creation. Therefore within a lifetime of a person born on or after May 1948, even a little before; we can expect the commencement of the many prophecies about the end times.

The context tells us just the opposite of what you took out of context.
Ezekiel 12:
21Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 22“Son of man, what is this proverb that you have in the land of Israel:
‘The days go by,
and every vision fails’?
23Therefore tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will put an end to this proverb, and in Israel they will no longer recite it.’

But say to them: ‘The days are at hand when every vision will be fulfilled. 24For there will be no more false visions or flattering divinations within the house of Israel, 25because I, the LORD, will speak whatever word I speak, and it will be fulfilled without delay. For in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak a message and bring it to pass, declares the Lord GOD.’”

26Furthermore, the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 27“Son of man, take note that the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now; he prophesies about the distant future.’

28Therefore tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘None of My words will be delayed any longer. The message I speak will be fulfilled, declares the Lord GOD.’”

About 5 years later, Jerusalem was desolated by Nebuchadnezzar.

Actually, disbelief and being ignored is what I expect when I point out the prophetic scriptures. After all, that was the general reaction to the prophets themselves. I will continue my task of trying to bring understanding to you and whoever cares to listen.

Because you take everything out of context.

Ezekiel 33:7As Ezekiel was told in Ezekiel 33:7, it was his job to warn people, so if they refuse to listen, just can’t see it, don’t want to know, doesn’t suit their preconceived notions, or simply do not care – that is their concern, but I will not be responsible and will have saved myself. Ref: logostelos.info

No, bro, you have no authority to reveal God's secrets. Everything has already been revealed.
Hebrews 1:1On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

Amos 3:7
7“For the Lord God does nothing
without revealing his secret
to his servants the prophets.
8The lion has roared;
who will not fear?
The Lord God has spoken;
who can but prophesy?”

Acts 13:40-41 Beware lest you bring down upon yourselves the doom prophesied. See this, you scoffers, marvel and begone, for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed that you will never believe when you are told of it.

Where on earth do you get the idea that Paul is speaking to the future. The scoffers show up in verse 45.

38Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40Watch out, then, that what was spoken by the prophets does not happen to you:

41‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish!For I am doing a work in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.’
A Light for the Gentiles

42As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people urged them to continue this message on the next Sabbath. 43After the synagogue was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.
44On the following Sabbath, nearly the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy, and they blasphemously contradicted what Paul was saying.
46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “It was necessary to speak the word of God to you first. But since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

 

[keras]

prove the law is still being kept 100% and they're still sacrificing in the temple.

Hosea 3:4-5 ...you will live for a long time without a king....sacrifice or Temple......

What's the antecedent noun that the pronouns are referring to?

The fig tree and all the trees.... the Jewish nation and all of the nations. None of them produce the proper fruit of the Spirit.

About 5 years later, Jerusalem was desolated by Nebuchadnezzar.

Ezekiel12:26....in the distant future. Haha

Because you take everything out of context.

Because it conflicts with your wrong beliefs.

The scoffers show up in verse 45.

Acts 13:45 is not a fulfilment of Habakkuk 1:5, or 2 Peter 3:3-4.

 

[keras]

It is natural and quite right that Christians should engage in debate over what the Bible says about the last days and the Return of Jesus. After all, the Bible has a lot to tell us about these important events. Regardless of one’s worldview or faith, the Bible is an ancient and vitally important book that has shaped the course of history and will continue to in the future.

But how can it be that there are so many differing opinions as to what will take place? We do, almost all agree on the most essential point – that is, Jesus will physically Return to earth. It is in the timing of His Return and who exactly is the nation, the people that He Returns into, that there is disagreement.

Jesus said; Do not assume that I have come to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34-36

Luke 12:49 I have come to set fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled.

Jesus makes statements that contradict today’s picture of Him as a gentle pacifist and seems to differ from what the angels announced at His birth, but it isn’t; they told of the beginning of this age of enmity between God and humanity and the eventual final reconciliation. Matthew 3:12, Psalms 110:5-6

Until that happens, we are still in that age of enmity and God must impose consequences on both our good and evil choices. We have free will, mostly so that we can freely love Him, because only freely chosen love is true love. Thus, if God only rewarded the good but left the evil unpunished, He would act arbitrarily, against His just nature and our free choices would be meaningless.

From Isaiah 63:1-6...I resolved on a Day of vengeance.... we have a graphic description of the Lord carrying out His just retribution against His enemies. The reason for their destruction is foretold in Romans 9:22-23. Many other passages describe this soon to happen, terrible Day of the Lords wrath. Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:7, +

This cannot be at the same time as the Return of Jesus, as the Day of the Lord is a worldwide event, whereas at His Return, Jesus disposes of the Beast, the False Prophet and the attacking armies at Armageddon.

The fact that the Lord’s garments become blood stained during His Day of vengeance, then - at His Return, it states that He “is robed in a garment dyed in blood”, this proves that the Day of the Lord is some time before His Return.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See; the Lord is coming in fire, His chariots like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His furious anger. The Lord will judge with fire – by His sword He will test all mankind. Many will be slain by Him.

Many people today, combine prophecies like Isaiah 63 & 66, the wrath of the Lord, with the Return of Jesus. To do this requires that you allegorize either these verses or the accurate descriptions of His Return in Revelation 19, Zechariah 14:3-5 and Matt 24:30

Psalm 50:1-6 The Lord God has spoken and summoned the world. He shines from Zion, in His glory. He will not remain silent, a consuming fire goes before Him and storms rage around Him. The heavens and the earth look on at the judging of His people. Gather to Me, My loyal servants, those, who by sacrifice have made a covenant with Me. The heavens will proclaim His justice, for God Himself is judge. Ezekiel 34:11-16

The Lord’s loyal servants are gathered into Zion, all the Promised Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38 Then, it isn’t until later, when the Great Tribulation is over, that Jesus Returns, destroys His attackers, gathers all His people and reigns for 1000 years.

Therefore, the next event on the prophetic calendar is the Lords Day of vengeance.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Hosea 3:4-5 ...you will live for a long time without a king....sacrifice or Temple......

The last king of Israel was Hoshea 2 Kings 17. It was a long time from 725 BC until Messiah came when all became united in Him.

The fig tree and all the trees.... the Jewish nation and all of the nations. None of them produce the proper fruit of the Spirit.

No, the antecedent noun to the pronoun "you" are the disciples
Matthew 24:32Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Ezekiel12:26....in the distant future. Haha

Your doctrine is the same as the wayward Jews who were claiming that what God said was near was far away. So, according to Jesus in Revelation 22, when did He say He would come. In Revelation 22, amidst Christ giving a dire warning not to change a word of the prophecy of the book, He said 3 times "I am coming quickly". And if you hold to your doctrine, you will try to make it mean "I am not coming quickly". Do you believe what He said?

Because it conflicts with your wrong beliefs.

Absolutely, if verses are taken out of context as you do, it definitely is in conflict with with my beliefs and the scripture.

Acts 13:45 is not a fulfilment of Habakkuk 1:5, or 2 Peter 3:3-4.

The resurrection "is" the astounding thing that would happen.
Habakkuk 1:5
“Look at the nations and observe—be utterly astounded! For I am doing a work in your days that you would never believe even if someone told you.
Luke 16:31
Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

2Peter3:2by recalling what was foretold by the holy prophets and commanded by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3Most importantly, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

Isaiah28:
11Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )
He will speak to this people 12to whom He has said:
“This is the place of rest, let the weary rest;
this is the place of repose.”
But they would not listen.
13Then the word of the LORD to them will become:
“Order on order, order on order,
line on line, line on line;
a little here, a little there,”
so that they will go stumbling backward
and will be injured, ensnared, and captured.
14Therefore hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.

 

[keras]

Jeremiah 21:11-12 To the Royal House of Judah – the Lord says: In the meantime, maintain justice and refrain from oppression; or because of your evil actions: the fire of My fury will blaze up and burn unquenched.

Jeremiah 9:25-26 The time is coming says the Lord, when I shall punish all the circumcised. Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the fringes of the desert. For all alike are uncircumcised in their hearts. Ezekiel 3:1-5, Amos 1

Jeremiah 7:16 & 28 Say to Judah: You are a nation who did not obey the Lord or accept correction. Truth has perished, it is heard no more from them. Do not make a plea or pray for these people, for I shall not listen to you. Jer. 11:14...or help them in their hour of disaster.

Jeremiah 8:12 They should be ashamed because of these abominations, yet they have no sense of shame, therefore they will fall with a great crash on the Lord’s Day of Reckoning. Amos 2:4-5

Jeremiah 23:13 & 19 Among the leaders and Rabbi’s of Jerusalem, I see horrible things: adultery and hypocrisy. To Me, all of her inhabitants are like Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jeremiah 9:9-11 Shall I fail to punish them for their transgressions? Shall I not exact vengeance on such a people? There will be weeping and wailing on the hills and I shall chant a dirge over the Land, for it will be scorched and untrodden. No beasts are left, even the birds and wild animals are gone. Jerusalem will be a heap of ruins and the towns of Judah, a waste, without inhabitants.

Jeremiah 10:18 The Lord says: This time I shall throw out the whole population of the Land, I shall press them and squeeze them dry.

Jeremiah 12:14 The Lord says: All those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land which I allotted to My people Israel for their holding – I shall uproot them. Also I shall uproot Judah from among them.

Jeremiah 25:30-32 The Lord will roar from His holy dwelling place against all the inhabitants of the Land. The great noise reaches around the earth, for He has an indictment against the nations, this is His judgement on all peoples and the wicked will die. Not a nuke war, but a C.M.E. sunstrike, instigated by the Lord – His one Day of vengeance and wrath against His enemies.

Jeremiah 12:4 & 11 How long must the Land mourn? All the grass and trees are dry and dead and the birds and beasts are all gone. The wickedness of the inhabitants has caused the whole Land to become desolate.

Usually all the verses above have been thought to have happened in ancient times, but close study shows that there will be a complete and final fulfilment in the near future. The Lord’s people, are now the born again Christians, from every race and nation:

Jeremiah 32:14 & 37-44 The Lord says: Take these copies of the deeds to the land that you have purchased and seal them in a clay jar, so they may be preserved for a long time to come. For I shall gather My people from all the lands from which I have banished them and I will bring them back to this Land, where they will dwell in peace and security. As I have brought upon this people all this great disaster, so shall I bring upon them prosperity, which I now promise them. They will be My people and I will be their God. I will enter into an everlasting Covenant with them and I will give them a clean heart so they will keep My commandments. All of the Land will be inhabited once more, for I shall restore the fortunes of all My Israelite [type] people.
Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged and paraphrased. www.logostelos.info

We know from many other Prophesies that this forthcoming punishment will affect all the world, commencing what will happen from Revelation 7

 

[keras]

Classic "replacement theology" as taught traditionally in the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestant denominations is not biblically accurate. But neither is the view of their main opponents who advocate Messianic Judaism. The good figs of Judah -namely, the Apostles and those Jewish Christians who followed Jesus; were the ‘branches’ of the "tree", that were not cut off. Romans 11:17a

This fig tree producing good fruits, following Jesus the King of Judah, retained the right to be called by the tribal name of Judah. They are the "true Jews," as it were. Those who rejected Jesus and still continue to reject Him today, are rejected by God, Matthew 21:32, Revelation 2:9



Jeremiah 24:1-10 shows that God sees the nation of Judah as a fig tree and the nation was actually divided into two groups of people-those whose fruits were very good, and those whose fruits were very bad. This is really no different from any other nation, for there is not a nation in the world that has all righteous people or all unrighteous people. But in the case of Judah it is a matter of divine separation into two distinct fig trees, because God intended to treat them differently. He intended to give Judah’s dominion mandate to those who produced good fruit, and at the same time He intended to disinherit those who produced bad fruit.

Jesus Himself produced good fruit. He was born of a Judahite mother, as proven in the genealogies of Matthew 1 and Luke 3. But as the King of Judah, He was more than just a fig branch that was producing good fruit. He was, is, the root of the tree, to which were attached various branches that bore good fruit. Jesus said as much when He used a slightly different motif of the vine and branches:

John 15:1-6 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit... I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.



It is clear from this that only those who abide in Christ will bear the type of fruit that God is seeking. If one claims to be in Christ, but does not produce these fruits of the Kingdom, he is cut off. And " if anyone does not abide in Me," Jesus says, " he is thrown away as a branch and dries up. " Surely He had in mind those Jews who had rejected Him as Messiah. Only a few days earlier, Jesus had cursed the fig tree, and the disciples had marvelled that it had dried up by the following morning. He was saying, then, that the people who produced no fruit: or, as Jeremiah put it, those who produced only inedible figs would be cut off and burned.

This is precisely what happened. Judah split into two factions, or two "trees." Those who accepted Jesus as Messiah became the branches of the good fig tree. These were the inheritors of the dominion mandate given to Judah. Of these, Jesus said He would prune them in order that they would bring forth even more fruit.

Those who refused to accept Jesus as Messiah were cut off and are no longer inheritors of the dominion mandate. Jesus clearly said that there is no way that anyone can bear the proper fruit apart from being attached to Him. As we Christians are: Matthew 21:43
Ref: Stephen Jones

 

[WilliamLhk]

The end of the sacrificial system and therefore the law and the passing of heaven and earth happened with the destruction of the temple.

Earth passed away in 70 AD? Wow! news to me. What then am I living on?

Everything has already been revealed.

Not so:

Dan.12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed UNTIL the time of the end.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Earth passed away in 70 AD? Wow! news to me. What then am I living on?

Do you not remember when "you" passed away and all things became new?
2 Corinthians 5:16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Ecclesiastes 1:3What does a man gain from all his labor,
at which he toils under the sun?
4Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

Genesis 8: 21When the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, He said in His heart, “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from his youth. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done.
22As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
shall never cease.”

Ephesians 3:20Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us, 21to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Not so:

Dan.12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed UNTIL the time of the end.

Jesus reveals the seals in Rev 5
Daniel 12:4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.”
Matthew 24:And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
The knowledge that would increase is the gospel, the greatest knowledge that man has or ever will receive this side of heaven, and the proclamation into all the world is the to and fro of Daniel.

The apostles were given the commission to go into all the world and preach the gospel and were already told that when that took place, the end would come.
Acts 1:7Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Did the gospel go into all the world--yes, according to Paul..

Romans 10:18
But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being proclaimed all over the world.

Colossians 1:5the faith and love proceeding from the hope stored up for you in heaven, of which you have already heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood the grace of God........10so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Rev 22:10Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of prophecy in this book, because the time is near.

 

[WilliamLhk]

Do you not remember when "you" passed away and all things became new?
2 Corinthians 5:16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

What does my becoming a new creature in Christ have to do with the whole earth passing away??

Absolutely nothing.

Your arguments are an example of forcing Scripture to conform to a doctrine. Instead of forming a doctrine to conform to Scripture.

Since Daniel prophesied that understanding of his prophecy would be "closed up and sealed till the time of the end," when then does Daniel say that time will be? >>

Daniel 11:40 40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

These events by no means occurred in the first century AD, nor at any time since. They are yet to be fulfilled; meaning that the time of the end has not yet commenced!

 

[Ed Parenteau]

What does my becoming a new creature in Christ have to do with the whole earth passing away??

Absolutely nothing.

Your arguments are an example of forcing Scripture to conform to a doctrine. Instead of forming a doctrine to conform to Scripture.

Since Daniel prophesied that understanding of his prophecy would be "closed up and sealed till the time of the end," when then does Daniel say that time will be? >>

Daniel 11:40 40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

These events by no means occurred in the first century AD, nor at any time since. They are yet to be fulfilled; meaning that the time of the end has not yet commenced!

You're falsely accusing me of "forcing Scripture to conform to a doctrine". If you believe that, then respond to what I said in total and correct it. And then you do exactly what you accuse me of doing. You claim that Daniel 11:40 hasn't happened yet, but Jesus told the apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit and He would : John 16:13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

Why didn't the Holy Spirit ever mention "but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon."?
Because they had already hit the dustbin of history. And guess what, no one fights wars with horsemen and chariots anymore. I would have thought most people would have known that, but I guess not. Are you re-imagining scripture with a modern twist to fit your doctrine?

A new heaven and earth are a who and become the new covenant world. God would create a new spiritual people Psalms 102, a new spiritual covenant Jeremiah 31, a new spiritual house with spiritual sacrifices 1 Peter 2, and a new spiritual city and kingdom Hebrews 12, Rev 21 and 22.

Deuteronomy 31:30Then Moses recited aloud to the whole assembly of Israel the words of this song from beginning to end:
32:1Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak;
hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
2Let my teaching fall like rain
and my speech settle like dew,

Isaiah 1:2
Listen, O heavens, and give ear, O earth, for the LORD has spoken: “I have raised children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against Me.

Genesis 37:
9Then Joseph had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
10He told his father and brothers, but his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream that you have had? Will your mother and brothers and I actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”

 

[RandyPNW]

At His Return, Christ will fulfil the Autumn festivals, exactly as he did with the Spring festivals during His first advent.

I don't think Matt 24 emphasizes the 2nd Coming, but rather, the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus was asked to explain the difference between the fall of Jerusalem and the coming of the Kingdom at the 2nd Coming. But the "Fig Tree" prophecy has to do with signs of the fall of Jerusalem, in my opinion.

The Fig Tree produced leaves because Messiah was in the midst of Israel and believers had begun to show up. But the Fig Tree failed to produce figs because the nation as a whole failed to produce a Christian nation.

So, the early signs of Christianity in Israel heralded the fall of Israel, which stood opposed to Christianity. The Temple would fall, along with the system that had favored Israel.

Matthew 24:32-34 – Christ tells us to learn from the fig tree, when it breaks into leaf, we can know that the end is near and the present generation will [can] live to see it all.
Obviously, it was not that generation who heard His prophecy, but He means the last generation before these things take place. They ‘will live to see it all’, means within a persons lifetime. The prophecy in:

Ezekiel 12:25-28 ....it will be put off no longer, you rebellious people [the Jewish people, symbolised by the fig tree] in your lifetime, I will do what I have planned......these prophecies are for a time far off.....the Lord says: there will be no more delays, it will be done.
This tells us that within ‘your lifetime’, when the fig tree ‘breaks into leaf’, that is when Judah again has control of the Land, the Lord will act once more in His creation. Therefore within a lifetime of a person born on or after May 1948, even a little before; we can expect the commencement of the many prophecies about the end times.

 

[keras]

I don't think Matt 24 emphasizes the 2nd Coming, but rather, the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Hi Randy, where've you been?

Jesus' Prophecy in Matthew 24:32-34, does not refer to the Glorious Return or the fall of Jerusalem.
He refers to the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel in 1948. They returned to the Holy Land in apostasy and never bore the fruit of the Spirit. Their fate is well prophesied and only a remnant of Judah will survive.

I wish that you and others would be more careful in identifying who is Judah and who is the true House of Israel. The ones Jesus came to save Matthew 15:24. Did He fail?

 

[RandyPNW]

Hi Randy, where've you been?

My wife and I recently moved from WA State to Maryland, where we'll probably spend the rest of our lives. It's a very Left-leaning state, but I like the people here, as well as the environment/climate. I forgot but aren't you in a different country than here in the US?

By the way, thanks--though we disagree regularly, I consider modest disagreements in theology secondary to Christian friendship/fellowship.

Jesus' Prophecy in Matthew 24:32-34, does not refer to the Glorious Return or the fall of Jerusalem.
He refers to the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel in 1948. They returned to the Holy Land in apostasy and never bore the fruit of the Spirit. Their fate is well prophesied and only a remnant of Judah will survive.

I do agree with you that the restoration of Israel was prophesied in the Prophets. And I understand that many Christians see the Fig Tree prophecy as applied to the restoration of the nation Israel. I don't, but we apparently agree on the important fact that Israel is being recovered?

I wish that you and others would be more careful in identifying who is Judah and who is the true House of Israel. The ones Jesus came to save Matthew 15:24. Did He fail?

I took a bit of a break from discussing these issues because I've made my view known. I know you think the northern tribes are now present in European Christians, and that Judah represents the return of the Jews? I hope I have that right?

Anyway, as I've said before I think the 10 tribes from the North turned to idolatry and abandoned their monotheistic religious heritage. Those tribes are indeed mixed in among the European nations. I just wouldn't call them "Israel," as you do.

I do believe that the tribe of Judah came to encompass all 12 tribes, since all of the faithful in all 12 tribes migrated to Judah in order to worship God there, instead of worshiping other gods set up in Samaria and Dan. The Jewish People, therefore, represent all 12 tribes and not just Judah.

Take care....

 

[Dan Perez]

At His Return, Christ will fulfil the Autumn festivals, exactly as he did with the Spring festivals during His first advent.

Matthew 24:32-34 – Christ tells us to learn from the fig tree, when it breaks into leaf, we can know that the end is near and the present generation will [can] live to see it all.
Obviously, it was not that generation who heard His prophecy, but He means the last generation before these things take place. They ‘will live to see it all’, means within a persons lifetime. The prophecy in:

Ezekiel 12:25-28 ....it will be put off no longer, you rebellious people [the Jewish people, symbolised by the fig tree] in your lifetime, I will do what I have planned......these prophecies are for a time far off.....the Lord says: there will be no more delays, it will be done.
This tells us that within ‘your lifetime’, when the fig tree ‘breaks into leaf’, that is when Judah again has control of the Land, the Lord will act once more in His creation. Therefore within a lifetime of a person born on or after May 1948, even a little before; we can expect the commencement of the many prophecies about the end times.


Many of the Scriptures that I point out and explain, will conflict with some traditional doctrines and theology. Because of the seriousness of these issues and the probable direct consequences these events will have on you and your family, each reader must draw their own conclusions. Read the prophecies that describe future happenings, carefully comparing the different interpretations as given by various Bible scholars. But, the only real test of truth is God’s infallible Word, read literally (excepting the obvious allegories) From what I have read, most writers on end times subjects, simply ignore a lot of scripture, especially in the Old Testament, and my experience is; that when asked about this, they just do not reply.

Actually, disbelief and being ignored is what I expect when I point out the prophetic scriptures. After all, that was the general reaction to the prophets themselves. I will continue my task of trying to bring understanding to you and whoever cares to listen.

As Ezekiel was told in Ezekiel 33:7, it was his job to warn people, so if they refuse to listen, just can’t see it, don’t want to know, doesn’t suit their preconceived notions, or simply do not care – that is their concern, but I will not be responsible and will have saved myself. Ref: logostelos.info

Acts 13:40-41 Beware lest you bring down upon yourselves the doom prophesied. See this, you scoffers, marvel and begone, for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed that you will never believe when you are told of it.

An d when. lookin. at ACTS 13:40-41 THAT the CONTEXT is all about the JEWISH people and nothing about PAUL

OR THE BODY of CHRIST !!

dan p

 

[keras]

I do believe that the tribe of Judah came to encompass all 12 tribes, since all of the faithful in all 12 tribes migrated to Judah in order to worship God there, instead of worshiping other gods set up in Samaria and Dan. The Jewish People, therefore, represent all 12 tribes and not just Judah.

But Jesus specifically stated that He came to save ony the House of Israel. He was nor confused, because Jesus Himself was of the tribe of Judah and knew; as the Apostles did, that Israel remained scattered among the nations and was as many as the sands of the seas.

Jesus gave the Gospel to His disciples and they fulfilled His mission. WE Christians are the successful result.
It simply contradicts the reality to deny the faithful Christian peoples, now from every tribe, race, nation and language, their place as the Israelites of God, grafted into the Tree of Life.
It also contradicts the many Bible Prophesies about the virtual demise of Jewish Israel and only a remnant will survive.

 

[Douggg]

I wish that you and others would be more careful in identifying who is Judah and who is the true House of Israel.

Ezekiel 39
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
-------------------------------------------------------------

keras, in those verses Is the true house of Israel referring to the church or the Jews ?

 

[keras]

keras, in those verses Is the true house of Israel referring to the church or the Jews ?

Basic Bible understanding: The House of Israel is the Northern ten tribes, now represented by the Christian peoples; from every tribe, race, nation and language.
The House of Judah is visibly represented by the Jewish people. Most of whom, have no ancestry connection with ancient Judah.

Ezekiel 39:22-25 & 34:11-16, Prophesies the gathering of all the faithful Christian peoples into all of the Holy Land, soon after the Lord will have cleared and cleansed it.
Any other scenario, is error and contradicts scripture.

 

[Douggg]

Basic Bible understanding: The House of Israel is the Northern ten tribes, now represented by the Christian peoples; from every tribe, race, nation and language.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

keras, those verses in Ezekiel 39 said the house of Israel went into captivity because they trespassed against Him (Jesus). Are you saying the church trespassed against Jesus, so that the church went into captivity ?

Also, are you saying Jesus hid His face from the church, verse 24 ?

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

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keras, the church is not the house of Israel. So just stop with that assertion.

 

[keras]

Also, are you saying Jesus hid His face from the church, verse 24 ?

Yes; He did and then 2000 years ago, God sent Jesus to save them.

keras, the church is not the house of Israel. So just stop with that assertion.

Who are you, to stop me presenting the Biblical truths?
Paul said the Christian people who follow the Way of Christ, are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

Thinking that Judah is also Israel, is obvious error. When Zephaniah 1:18 happens, then Judah,- wrongly calling themselves Israel, will be punished for their continued rejection of Jesus and only a remnant will survive to join their Christian brethren. Isaiah 6:11-13, Jeremiah 50:4-5