Justification and Sanctification ?

[Chaleb]

2 Corinthians 5:19 is before NOT after one's born again

Maybe you dont understand that PAUL wrote 2 Corinthians .????????????????

Listen,
Paul was called by Jesus, from Heaven, after JESUS died, rose again, and ascended back into Heaven.


Wake up, Abbaove.

 

[Chaleb]

True, Lord Jesus died for all sinners, and whoever repents toward God, and believes in Lord Jesus, is justified and saved before one work is ever done.

Amen.

You just gave Jesus all the credit due Him, for our Salvation.

Isn't it wonderful to give Jesus credit for the CROSS where God met us with Redemption ?

So many try to deny HIM ....... with their water, works, law, and commandment keeping : Galatians 1:8

 

[setst777]

Amen.

You just gave Jesus all the credit due Him, for our Salvation.

Isn't it wonderful to give Jesus credit for the CROSS ?

So many try to deny HIM ....... with their water, works, law, and commandment keeping : Galatians 1:8

All credit goes to Lord Jesus for our salvation. We receive that salvation by faith.

 

[setst777]

I said because of... Jesus (not us)

Lord Jesus said that it was us who believe who pass out of death onto life. Lord Jesus does not believe for us; rather, he specifically teaches, multiple times, that we must repent, and we are to believe in the Son to have life. Lord Jesus makes this plain to understand.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

 

[zoidar]

Can you show me where in Scripture it teaches that those who believe in Jesus do not have a saving faith until they receive the Spirit?

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [The rebirth of the indwelling Spirit is eternal life]

In the Old Covenant, except for kings, judges, and prophets, and those whom God gifted to do a special work, the {{{New Covenant of the Spirit}}} poured out on believers had not yet occurred in the Old Testament, not until Lord Jesus was glorified, and began at Pentecost. Did the OT saints have saving faith before receiving the Spirit, or did they believe in vain?

Before Lord Jesus was glorified, all those believing in him, including the disciples of Lord Jesus, and the 70 disciples whom Lord Jesus sent out to preach the Gospel and do miracles, and those in the Upper Room who believed in Lord Jesus, had not yet received the indwelling Spirit by faith, because Lord Jesus had not yet been glorified. Are you saying none of them had saving faith?

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him {{{were}}} to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

So, those who believed before the New Covenant in the Spirit, and died before the Spirit was given, did they all believe in vain - all being condemned because they did not have a saving faith, since the Spirit had not yet been poured out?

Do we pass out of death (regeneration of the indwelling Spirit) onto life before having a saving faith in Lord Jesus or after?

God says that all are dead in sin until God makes us alive (regeneration). We pass from Death to Life {{by Faith}} – not before.

John 5:24 (WEB) Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word {{{and believes}}} him who sent me {{{has eternal life,}}} and doesn’t come into judgment, but has {{{passed out of DEATH into LIFE}}}.

It seems to me believers had the Spirit before Pentecost, but at Pentecost the Spirit was given in a new way.

I believe you receive the Holy Spirit through repentance and faith (belief in the fact that Christ died for our sins and rose), and then the Spirit gives you saving faith (you get to know Christ personally. It becomes a relationship)..

I'm not interested in convincing you, just sharing my view. What is it you find so problematic? That people can believe in Christ without having saving faith?

 

[timothyu]

. Lord Jesus does not believe for us;

I never said that. You keep bringing people into the mix.

 

[fhansen]

The enlarged bold type may be a reference to: Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-30. Which way one believes seems to hinge on whether one is a traditional continualist of cessationist. That discussion/debate is for a Controversial Theology thread ... so PLEASE lets not derail this thread by debating "the one unforegiveable sin". We'll just have to agree that a "born again" (Titus 3:5) would never be guilty, but a lukewarm Christian (heaven forbid) may be guilty of the above verses in bold.

There are plenty of sins listed in Scripture, amounting to a return to the flesh, that will keep one from ever seeing God. But personally I don't believe that any sin is unforgivable, unless it's persisted in without repentance. And I would never agree that a "born again" could never commit sin that constitutes a turning back away from God, thereby losing his vital relationship with Him, forfeiting his justified state by living unjustly. And the difference between a born again and a lukewarm Christian is highly subjective anyway.

The following "Never" reply by Chaleb is in response to above enlarged sentence in previous post by fhansen on p7. In the following posgt by Chaleb is referring to before one's born again (Titus 3:5) conversion; whereas fhansen is referring to after one's born again (Titus 3:5) conversion.

True, I was speaking of our after conversion/justification state.

 

[AbbaLove]

True, Lord Jesus died for all sinners, and whoever repents toward God, and believes in Lord Jesus, is justified and saved before one work is ever done.

So you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved. Then if the believer backslides the typical reply is "He wasn't really Saved."

Proof that Jesus was justified was only after He arose NOT before. However, your seeker-sensitive theology is very popular with churches. Your post is an example of prevalent seeker-sensitive theology. It's as if you ignore scrpture that says otherwise going against the grain of easy-peasy theology that's appealing to the ear of nominal Christianity. Maybe you don't really believe what you posted. It's a dangerous theology, but it fills the pews when you tell them what they like/want to hear..

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.
29 For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

Some of you were such, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthains 6:11)​

James 2:18 (WEB)
James is talking about works inspired and under the anointed by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:1-11)

Yes, a man will say, You have faith, and I have works.​

Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.​

​

The inspiration and anointing of the Holy Spirit will instruct born again disciples​

to good works inspired (2 Corinthians 11:1-12) that will further advance​

the Kingdom of Heaven and thereby Glorify GOD.​

 

[AbbaLove]

Maybe you don't understand that PAUL wrote 2 Corinthians 5:19 .????????????????​

​

Listen,​

Paul was called by Jesus, from Heaven, after JESUS died, rose again, and ascended back into Heaven.​

​

Wake up, Abbaove.​

Paul is referring to the unsaved before they come to the realization their sins are forgiven and accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Has been proceeding for nearly 2000 years by those ministering the Good News to lost souls (John 3:16). Hopefully as they are discipled and baptized by the Holy Spirit (as a born again new creation in Christ) they stop sinning being sanctified and justified.

namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having comitted to us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)​

Would like to go back to posts by Chaleb and fhansen to see if there is still disagreement or misunderstanding.

• 1. From Chaleb's posts it sounds like he believes sins of a born again Christian (even murder, adultery) can be foregiven by GOD with deep sorrow confessing repentance with tears and remorseful sobbing.
• 2. From fhansen's posts it sounds like he believes sins by a born again Christian (even murder, adultery) can't be foregiven by GOD even with deep sorrow confessing repentance with tears and remorseful sobbing.

fhansen said:
The church has struggled with these matters many centuries ago. The problem involves whether there is any consequence for sin. Can no amount or gravity of sin separate us from God again? The early church actually taught that there can be no repentance for serious sin after conversion, such as for murder or adultery. Conversion to the living God involved the turning away from sin and the ways of the world. Various passages support this no-more-repentance-available idea and in any case Gal 5 and elsewhere affirm that such sins lead to death.

fhansen said:
This was modified fairly soon, meaning that it was recognized that, due to God's love and mercy and desire that none should perish, one can repent of any sin, with a true change of heart. But sin was taken very seriously back then; the early believers had given up much to become Christians, including their lives and those who had returned to the flesh were not easily, or quickly, considered to be under God's grace again.

fhansen said:
So the historic teachings maintain that a believer has embarked on a journey, away from sin and nearer and nearer to God, to the holiness without which he will not see God (Heb 12:14). He must be on that road, walking by the Spirit, remaining in Christ, or else he'll inevitably stray. While it's taught that absolute sinless perfection is not possible in this life, persistence in grave sin as mentioned above would be to mock God and the work of His Son as that kind of sin is directly opposed to and destructive of love of God and neighbor.

My own understanding is that a 'born again' (Titus 3:5) Christian is obedient to Christ as was Paul. It would be helpful if Chaleb would explain why he believes a born again Christian (Titus 3:5) is unable to stop sinning or live a holy life (James 4:7)

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.​

29 For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.​

30 And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8)​

 

[AbbaLove]

There are plenty of sins listed in Scripture, amounting to a return to the flesh, that will keep one from ever seeing God.

Take it you are referring to the Mosaic Law (e.g. 10 Commandmenets) as well as NT Scripture?

But personally I don't believe that any sin is unforgivable, unless it's persisted in without repentance.

Your referring to previous post when "sin used to be taken more seriously". Is 21st century Christian church too lax (abortion, divorce remariage within the so-called Body of Christ)?

And I would never agree that a "born again" could never commit sin that constitutes a turning back away from God, thereby losing his vital relationship with Him, forfeiting his justified state by living unjustly. And the difference between a born again and a lukewarm Christian is highly subjective anyway.

One Way (only way) to distinquish a born again new creation (Titus 3:5) from a lukewarm Christian may not even take Holy Spirit Discernment. With others that look and sound like wheat, but could be a tare one needs the Spiritual Gift of Discernment.

 

[setst777]

It seems to me believers had the Spirit before Pentecost, but at Pentecost the Spirit was given in a new way.

I believe you receive the Holy Spirit through repentance and faith (belief in the fact that Christ died for our sins and rose), and then the Spirit gives you saving faith (you get to know Christ personally. It becomes a relationship)..

I'm not interested in convincing you, just sharing my view. What is it you find so problematic? That people can believe in Christ without having saving faith?

That is your own opinion and belief, but not what the Scriptures actually teach. Everyone has an opinion, and that is why we have thousands of Christian denominations. But what does God say, and whom will you believe?

We are children of God by faith, before ever receiving the Spirit.

Galatians 3:26 (WEB) 26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.

And because we are children of God, which is by faith, the Spirit indwells us.

Galatians 4:6 (WEB) 6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba,[a] Father!”

When did the New Covenant of the Spirit poured out on believers begin? Did the New Covenant in the Spirit begin in the Old Covenant?

Acts 2:32 (WEB) 32 This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.

The Spirit of God has always been at active, working with the Word of God, but the indwelling of the Spirit is a promise only in the New Covenant. That is what makes the New Covenant so special, in that God will now dwell in us by faith, all of which Lord Jesus purchased with His own blood.

John 14:15-17 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him and doesn’t know him. You know him, for he lives {{{with}}} you, and will be {{{in}}} you.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (WEB) 13 In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.

 

[setst777]

So you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved. Then if the believer backslides the typical reply is "He wasn't really Saved."

Proof that Jesus was justified was only after He arose NOT before. However, your seeker-sensitive theology is very popular with churches. Your post is an example of prevalent seeker-sensitive theology. It's as if you ignore scrpture that says otherwise going against the grain of easy-peasy theology that's appealing to the ear of nominal Christianity. Maybe you don't really believe what you posted. It's a dangerous theology, but it fills the pews when you tell them what they like/want to hear..

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.​

29 For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.​

30 And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.​

​

Some of you were such, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthains 6:11)​

View attachment 329430

James 2:18 (WEB)
James is talking about works inspired and under the anointed by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:1-11)
​

Yes, a man will say, You have faith, and I have works.​

Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.​

​

The inspiration and anointing of the Holy Spirit will instruct born again disciples​

to good works inspired (2 Corinthians 11:1-12) that will further advance​

the Kingdom of Heaven and thereby Glorify GOD.​

AbbaLove, you have read my messages, and the Scriptures I quoted, on this board; and so, you know I do not believe in OSAS.

We are not saved by works, but by faith. However, if that faith is a true Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus, then we have renounced to old master of sin, and now commit to, and confess that, "Jesus is Lord of me." Therefore, the faith confessed results in, or is evidenced by, a new life onto righteousness as a servant of the Lord whom we now believe in and confess as Lord.

Romans 10:8-10 (WEB) “The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;” [Deuteronomy 30:14] that is, the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart, one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed." [Isaiah 28:16]

This all occurs in the heart, and is confessed by the mouth, before one work is ever done.

Once we believe in Lord Jesus like this, then begins the new life as a servant of Lord Jesus, following him into a sanctified life of righteousness and love.

To put one's faith in Lord Jesus is an activity of the mind, and represents a change of heart, after hearing the Gospel before one work is ever done.

Romans 4:9-11 (WEB) 9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised.

Therefore, a faith that does not result in a new life of following Lord Jesus is a dead faith and does not result in salvation.

Lord Jesus identifies his sheep as those who believe in him, and those believing sheep evidence their faith by listening to and following Lord Jesus.

John 10:26-29 (WEB) 26 But you don’t believe because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. 27 My sheep [the sheep who believe] hear [listen] my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

The "them" and "they" are the believing sheep who evidence their faith, in that, they listen to and follow Lord Jesus.

The Sheep are not saved by {{{faith plus works}}}, but because they believe in the Shepherd, they listen to His voice and they follow Him. These are the sheep granted eternal life.

 

[zoidar]

That is your own opinion and belief, but not what the Scriptures actually teach. Everyone has an opinion, and that is why we have thousands of Christian denominations. But what does God say, and whom will you believe?

We are children of God by faith, before ever receiving the Spirit.

Galatians 3:26 (WEB) 26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.

And because we are children of God, which is by faith, the Spirit indwells us.

Galatians 4:6 (WEB) 6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba,[a] Father!”

When did the New Covenant of the Spirit poured out on believers begin? Did the New Covenant in the Spirit begin in the Old Covenant?

Acts 2:32 (WEB) 32 This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.

The Spirit of God has always been at active, working with the Word of God, but the indwelling of the Spirit is a promise only in the New Covenant. That is what makes the New Covenant so special, in that God will now dwell in us by faith, all of which Lord Jesus purchased with His own blood.

John 14:15-17 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him and doesn’t know him. You know him, for he lives {{{with}}} you, and will be {{{in}}} you.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (WEB) 13 In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.

You are of the belief then that OT believers didn't have God's Spirit and no one was born again? Or do you think they were born again without the Holy Spirit?

I have my own experience. I came to believe the gospel, but was not yet saved. Then I gave my life to God in prayer and God saved me.

 

[setst777]

You are of the belief then that OT believers didn't have God's Spirit and no one was born again? Or do you think they were born again without the Holy Spirit?

I have my own experience. I came to believe the gospel, but was not yet saved. Then I gave my life to God in prayer and God saved me.

I do not deny your salvation, or your faith by which God saved you. God alone saves, and he saves those who put their faith in His Son.

• No Scriptures states that God saves us by giving us the faith to be saved.
• ALL the Scriptures plainly state and teach that we are saved by faith in Lord Jesus (John 3:14-18).
• If God gave you the faith to be saved, then wouldn't that mean that God guarantees your faith and your salvation?
• If that were true that God gives you your faith to be saved, guaranteeing your faith and salvation, then why do the Scriptures warn us to remain faithful to the end to be saved, and gives examples of those who fell away from the faith?

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Remember you were a child of God (saved) by faith, before ever receiving the Spirit. [Galatians 3:26; Galatians 4:6] ... Do you believe these Scriptures or do you reject them?

Before I answer your question, remember, that I gave you the Scriptures that teach:

• Whosoever believes God saves. We are saved by believing in Lord Jesus according to all the Scriptures (John 3:16).
• We receive the Promised Spirit by faith in Lord Jesus (Ephesians 1:13-14)
• The Spirit is a PROMISE for the New Covenant in Christ Jesus (John 7:38-39; Acts 2:32-33)
• The Promise of the Spirit is by faith in Lord Jesus, a faith by which we love Lord Jesus and obey His commands (John 15:15-16).
• There is no Scripture that states or teaches that God gives us faith to be saved after receiving the Spirit (???).
• All the OT saints believed in God before the Promise of the Spirit was ever given (Hebrews 8:8-10).
• The Promised Spirit only occurred after the glorification of Lord Jesus, and began at Pentecost (John 7:37-39; Luke 24:49).
• There is only One Promise of the Spirit being referred to - one Spirit.

Luke 24:49 (WEB) 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 2:32-33 (WEB) 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Ephesians 1:13 (WEB) 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

Now to answer your question, whether believers were born again:

Believers in the OT, before Lord Jesus was glorified, were not born again by the indwelling Spirit; rather, the OT saints could only be saved AFTER Lord Jesus paid for their sins on the cross. Nevertheless, it was because they believed in God is the reason that God would graciously save them after the New Covenant was established.

Hebrews 9:13-15 (WEB) 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without defect to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant, since a death has occurred for the redemption of the transgressions {{{that were under the first covenant}}}, that those who have been called {{{may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance}}}.

Romans 3:25-26 (NIV) 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

The indwelling Spirit is a promise only for the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8:8-10 (WEB)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, he said,

“Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they didn’t continue in my covenant, and I disregarded them,” says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord;
“I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart.
I will be their God, and they will be my people."

 

[timothyu]

OT folks will be resurrected just like anybody else.

 

[fhansen]

Take it you are referring to the Mosaic Law (e.g. 10 Commandmenets) as well as NT Scripture?

Well, those are the other side of the equation. But Gal 5:19-21 gives examples, as well as Rev 22:15.

Your referring to previous post when "sin used to be taken more seriously". Is 21st century Christian church too lax (abortion, divorce remariage within the so-called Body of Christ)?

There are instances where we may fail to identify an act as sinful and other instances where our theology simply downplays the danger of sin with a belief in a sort of carte blanc forgiveness -as long as I believe-no overcoming of sin necessary.

One Way (only way) to distinquish a born again new creation (Titus 3:5) from a lukewarm Christian may not even take Holy Spirit Discernment. With others that look and sound like wheat, but could be a tare one needs the Spiritual Gift of Discernment.

Fruit is the most important evidence although that can be tricky too, of course: phony, motivated by the flesh, not the Spirit. Either way a reborn person is not immune from falling again.

 

[Chaleb]

Paul is referring to the unsaved

Yes., exactly.

The verse says that God was in Christ, reconciling the World .... not counting their SINS against them.

1.) the WORLD is not the born again, its the lost

And people like me tell the lost that the Cross is their reconciliation back to God. John 14:6

 

[fhansen]

2. From fhansen's posts it sounds like he believes sins by a born again Christian (even murder, adultery) can't be foregiven by GOD even with deep sorrow confessing repentance with tears and remorseful sobbing.

I said nothing of the sort-just the opposite, in fact.

And the message of reconciliation in 2 Cor 5 is the good news that forgiveness by and restored fellowship with God is available to all humankind, that divine union being the very essence and source of justice/righteousness for man. This reconciliation becomes effective in our lives as we turn to Him in faith. Then our faith, and our hope, and our love will be surely still be challenged as the world and the enemy. continue to present us with temptations. To the extent that we wallow in sin, we're still no better than an unbeliever. To the extent that we're overcoming sin, we're walking with God, in His ways, as His children.

 

[Chaleb]

Well, those are the other side of the equation. But Gal 5:19-21 gives examples

Did you notice that Paul didnt refer to those as "sin".?
He called them "works of the flesh".

That is because he is talking to believers, and "God made Jesus to be sin for us", and "our old man of sin is crucified with Christ", and "God does not charge SIN to the born again"... Romans 4:8

Now if Paul was talking to water baptized religious, or to atheists.......as in both cases they are not born again, he would have said.... """Now the SINS of the unbelievers are"""" :>...... and posted that same list.

 

[fhansen]

Did you notice that Paul didnt refer to those as "sin".?
He called them "works of the flesh".

I see-that's a new one on me. But we cannot allow our preferred theology to undermine truth.

"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Gal 5:16-18

What does the law stand and inform us against? Sin.

"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." Gal 5:19-24

Unless we're now to believe that sexual immorality, idolatry, jealousy, covetousness, are not sins, along with other similar deeds of the flesh mentioned in Rev 22 such as: murder and loving and practicing immorality and falsehood.

"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

The flesh and the Spirit are at odds with each other. That's what's wrong with man, that's why he sins, because he's alienated from the life of God within himself.