Jesus's resurrection

[DavidPT]

Well, You can't have a "First resurrection" that isn't actually "First".

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

That bears repeating:

The First Resurrection is not something Jesus does, it's something Jesus IS.

"I am the resurrection and the Life"

Jesus Christ IS the First Resurrection, and on those that take part in it, the 2nd death has no power.

Jesus Christ was the first to rise out of the dead. Jesus was, literally, the "first resurrection." This fact, well attested by the writings of the New Testament, MUST form the basis for understanding Revelation 20:5-6:

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6)

The first resurrection was Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:5

Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead Acts 26:23
Christ should suffer and...be the first that should rise from the dead

Colossians 1:18
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

1 Corinthians 15:20
Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became


Jesus Christ was, plainly, the first resurrection. This fact forms the basis of St. John's depiction of the tribulation martyr saints becoming full partakers of the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20--everything Christ received by his death and resurrection is granted to them. Revelation 20:4-6, therefore, depicts the reality of Pauline theology concerning the identity Christ's followers had "in Him." Paul had taught that the saints were to become partakers of Christ's own reign and victory over death. Paul, with his detailed theology of our baptism into the very death and resurrection of Jesus (Rom 6:3-14), taught that the saints had co-resurrection and co-enthronement in the realized resurrection and enthronement of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20:4-6 is a narrative depiction of the saints' realization of the glorious promise Paul held out for them in his teachings--the saints are depicted as having attained the goal for which they all strove. As Paul taught, their resurrection and reign was "in Christ," and their sufferings and martyrdoms were honored by God with the reward of partaking in Christ's own resurrection, enthronement, and reign. They realized the promise of Paul's teaching that the saints were truly to take part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Truly, on these the second death has no power (Rev 20:6).

In other posts, probably in different threads, I indicated that I basically see the first resurrection as a type of resurrection, and that this type of resurrection always precedes the other type of resurrection.
When looking at it like that that would make Christ's resurrection as part of the first resurrection, as it would with the martyrs in Revelation 20:4. The two types of resurrections I am specifically referring to.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life

they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation


In every instance, the former always precedes the latter.

In Revelation 20:5---But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished--this referring to this---they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. This is the first resurrection--this referring to this---they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life

Did Jesus do good while He was alive? Of course He did. That means His resurrection fits this category---they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, the first resurrection.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Right. The old man was physically alive but spiritually dead, born that way. He never died spiritually because he wasn't alive spiritually so he wasn't raised spiritually. He was born again of the Spirit.

You, previously dead have now been raised up with Christ.

"In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by the putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses," - Colossians 2:11-13

I really don't think it can be any more clear than this.

You died, were buried, and raised up with Christ. Again and again Scripture says this. This is the "first resurrection", a spiritual resurrection of our being made alive to God in Christ; the second resurrection is our bodily resurrection at the conclusion of history, at Christ's glorious return to judge the living and the dead. At that time God will make all things new.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

But no matter how one looks at it, there is chronology involved. Initially satan is not bound. Then he is bound. Then he no longer is bound. No one would be claiming the chronology is something like the following instead, as an example---initially he is bound, then he is no longer bound. That is not true since this fails to take into account that he is first not initially bound.

Satan is bound, Christ defeated and bound him when He died, descended into hell, and then rose from the dead; the strong man has been bound,

"Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house." - Matthew 12:29

"Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death He might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery." - Hebrews 2:14-15

And so the devil, bound, is like a roaring lion seeking to devour, raging, because his time is short.

It's not chronological: the devil is bound AND warring though in futility for he is already defeated.

Within this same chronology of events there are saints, according to Revelation 20:4, who are martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast, and that when they are initially martyred, it either has to be during the time when satan isn't even bound yet, or during a time when he is bound, or during a time when he is no longer bound. Those are the only options. They can't possibly be martyred during the thousand years since this would indicate the 42 month reign of the beast is running in parallel with the thousand years. And they can't possibly be martyred after the thousand years if they have already been martyred beforehand. What option does that leave if not that they are martyred before the thousand years begin?

See the above.

And speaking of that, even Amils' interpretation of the thousand years, as wrong as it is, unwittingly proves saints are martyred prior to the beginning of the thousand years, John the Baptist being an example.

Yes, but see the Harrowing of Hell.

As we confess in the Apostles' Creed, Christ descended into the lower regions, by His death and resurrection He has conquered sin, death, hell, and the devil. So He is the One who has the keys of death and hades, the One who has conquered. Therefore we are more than conquerors through Him who loves us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[DavidPT]

the second resurrection is our bodily resurrection at the conclusion of history, at Christ's glorious return to judge the living and the dead.

There are only two resurrections total mentioned in Revelation 20. Nowhere in Revelation 20 does it indicate anyone needs to be resurrected twice. Nowhere in Revelation 20 does it indicate that anyone having part in the 2nd resurrection, that they too are blessed and holy, that they too, the 2nd death has no power over them.

 

[DavidPT]

Satan is bound, Christ defeated and bound him when He died, descended into hell, and then rose from the dead; the strong man has been bound,

According to Revelation 20, how long is satan bound? All the way up until he is cast into the lake of fire? No. All the way up to the end of the thousand years. And when the thousand years expire this indicates he is no longer bound. This indicates you can no longer apply what you submitted above, to satan once he is no longer bound.


Even though I appreciete you discussing these things with me, thus far nothing you have submitted is actually specifically addressing some of the issues I have raised, such as chronology and where the 42 month reign of the beast fits within that chronology. Thus, whether one should arrive at Premil or Amil.

 

[sovereigngrace]

There are only two resurrections total mentioned in Revelation 20. Nowhere in Revelation 20 does it indicate anyone needs to be resurrected twice. Nowhere in Revelation 20 does it indicate that anyone having part in the 2nd resurrection, that they too are blessed and holy, that they too, the 2nd death has no power over them.

This is a moot argument. It is our spiritual resurrection in Christ that gives us a victory over the second death. Simple!

 

[sovereigngrace]

According to Revelation 20, how long is satan bound? All the way up until he is cast into the lake of fire? No. All the way up to the end of the thousand years. And when the thousand years expire this indicates he is no longer bound. This indicates you can no longer apply what you submitted above, to satan once he is no longer bound.


Even though I appreciete you discussing these things with me, thus far nothing you have submitted is actually specifically addressing some of the issues I have raised, such as chronology and where the 42 month reign of the beast fits within that chronology. Thus, whether one should arrive at Premil or Amil.

Your whole reasoning here only survives because for years you have refused to listen to simple reason. I have repeatedly explained the Amil position to you and you refuse to consider it. You clearly do not want to know!

 

[Zao is life]

You, previously dead have now been raised up with Christ.

"With Christ", whom the Bible teaches is the firsfruits of the resurrection to come. This is because all except Christ who are born into the world, are in Adam, and Adam in them. Adam died spiritually, so we are born dead spiritually, because we are born into Adam.

Those who are born of the Spirit are in Christ, the last Adam, and He in them (John 14:20 and John 15:5). And so it is written, "The first man, Adam, was made a living soul (psuche)," the last Adam was a life-giving Spirit (pneuma). 1 Corinthians 15:45.

Therefore all who are in Christ are in Christ because they are born of the Spirit, and so are now are in Him who was raised, and are therefore raised with Him.

With Him.

With Him.

We are only raised with Him because He is risen and we are in Him and He in us, therefore we now live in hope of our own resurrection, the redemption of our own bodies:

"In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by the putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses," - Colossians 2:11-13

It is because we are born of the Spirit (not "resurrected spiritually" but born of the Spirit) that we are now found in Him and He in us.

But you have muddied it and then say that it can be no more clearer than your muddying of it:

I really don't think it can be any more clear than this.

You died, were buried, and raised up with Christ.

Again and again Scripture says this. This is the "first resurrection", -CryptoLutheran

The scripture does not say it is "the first resurrection" at all - not even once. It says Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection, and because He is risen, we will be raised by Him and through His resurrection - because we are in Him and He in us through our birth by His Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Son of Man who is the last Adam, who is risen.

We are only raised with Him because He is risen and we are in Him and He in us, therefore we now live in hope of our resurrection, the redemption of our bodies:

And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it? But if we hope for that which we do not see, then we wait for it with patience. (Romans 8:23-25).

We are waiting in hope for our resurrection because we are in Him who is raised and who is become the firstfruits of the resurrection from the dead.

It's only in your understanding which has been muddied by the fact that you have read "first resurrection" into the phrase "born again" that what you say cannot be clearer to you. In reality it's not clear though, it's muddied.

Doesn't mean you are not saved - because if you are trusting in Christ and in His righteousness, His work, death and resurrection to raise your from the dead (and not in yours or in yourself), then you are saved.

 

[Goodhuman]

Our inside must be resurrected so we become good.

 

[Aussie Pete]

As some people on this board say they have already been resurrected once. It makes me wonder how many resurrections do they believe Jesus had. I've read he was resurrected. That he died and came back to life. But how many more resurrections do you believe he had and do you believe he may have more to come? How many resurrections do you believe you will have?

There are two resurrections for believers who die before Jesus returns. The first is spiritual. The old spirit is removed and replaced when the person accepts Christ. It's the new birth. Two objects cannot occupy the same space, so the old has to be removed first. We come into this world by birth and we leave by death. So the old spirit has to die before it can be removed. Hence our co-crucifixion with Christ.
The new spirit is ours because Lord Jesus rose from the dead. That is what is means to be born again.

The physical resurrection gives us a new body to match our new spirit. This happens either when we rise again at the last trumpet or when the Lord Jesus takes us up.

 

[shilohsfoal]

There are two resurrections for believers who die before Jesus returns. The first is spiritual. The old spirit is removed and replaced when the person accepts Christ. It's the new birth. Two objects cannot occupy the same space, so the old has to be removed first. We come into this world by birth and we leave by death. So the old spirit has to die before it can be removed. Hence our co-crucifixion with Christ.
The new spirit is ours because Lord Jesus rose from the dead. That is what is means to be born again.

The physical resurrection gives us a new body to match our new spirit. This happens either when we rise again at the last trumpet or when the Lord Jesus takes us up.

You believe you are one of those who has taken part in the first resurrection?

 

[Aussie Pete]

You believe you are one of those who has taken part in the first resurrection?

Absolutely. I knew at the time I was born again that I was different. I had no idea why as it was not explained to me then. Now I know.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Absolutely. I knew at the time I was born again that I was different. I had no idea why as it was not explained to me then. Now I know.

You might be new as a babe and that good. Here is what scripture says about th e first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


Now, if you believe you have partaken in this first resurrection, can you tell me how many days was it from the time you was killed for testifying of Christ to the day you came back to life?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Right. The old man was physically alive but spiritually dead, born that way. He never died spiritually because he wasn't alive spiritually so he wasn't raised spiritually. He was born again of the Spirit.

I hope you know what you are talking about because it is totally confusing to the rest of us. I think you think if you keep repeating this enough that you will actually convince yourself. It totally contradicts what the Book actually says. I refer you back to the many posts above that you have sidestepped.

 

[sovereigngrace]

In other posts, probably in different threads, I indicated that I basically see the first resurrection as a type of resurrection, and that this type of resurrection always precedes the other type of resurrection.
When looking at it like that that would make Christ's resurrection as part of the first resurrection, as it would with the martyrs in Revelation 20:4. The two types of resurrections I am specifically referring to.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life

they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation


In every instance, the former always precedes the latter.

In Revelation 20:5---But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished--this referring to this---they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. This is the first resurrection--this referring to this---they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life

Did Jesus do good while He was alive? Of course He did. That means His resurrection fits this category---they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, the first resurrection.

You are totally contradicting yourself. Which resurrection occurs first - in time and importance? Is it Christ’s resurrection or is it ours?

 

[sovereigngrace]

You might be new as a babe and that good. Here is what scripture says about th e first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


Now, if you believe you have partaken in this first resurrection, can you tell me how many days was it from the time you was killed for testifying of Christ to the day you came back to life?

Your sarcasm is grievous.

 

[DavidPT]

You are totally contradicting yourself. Which resurrection occurs first - in time and importance? Is it Christ’s resurrection or is it ours?

How am I contradicting myself? I indicated I see the first resurrection as a type of resurrection. It would fit under the category of the resurrection unto life, as in unto eternal life. And that this resurrection always precedes the other resurrection, where that resurrection fits under the category of the resurrection unto damnation.

Christ rose first. Which of these two categories above did He rise in? The category of the resurrection unto life. Did any resurrection having to do with the other category, the resurrection unto damnation, precede His? No.

What about the dead in Christ who rise first? Which resurrection category will they rise in? The resurrection unto life. Does any resurrection having to do with the other category, the resurrection unto damnation, precede this resurrection? No.

If there are 2 categories, the resurrection unto life, where that category refers to the first resurrection, and the resurrection unto damnation being the other category, how can Christ and those that sleep in Him not rise in the first resurrection, regardless that Christ is resurrected before those that sleep in Him are? All of them still rise first. All of them still rise before the damned rise. IOW then, it is first in more ways than one. It is first because Christ rose in this type of resurrection first. It is also first because the dead in Christ also rise in this same type of resurrection, and that they rise before those in the remaining type of resurrection, the resurrection unto damnation, do.


While it's on my mind, speaking of sleeping in Christ, and that they rise first, how is it possible that the martyrs in Revelation 20:4 are not meaning any of these?

 

[rwb]

Perhaps the confusion comes by calling our spiritual re-birth a resurrection. Don't get me wrong I do believe that is what happens when we are raised to spiritual life when we believe. Confusion is sometimes the result of modern translations, or simply reading ones doctrine into the text.

Many can only conceive of the resurrection of our body, and for this reason they cannot understand how Rev 20 is speaking of disembodied souls (living spirits) in heaven after they have physically died in faith. So they read Rev 20:4 as being made alive 'again', even though the verse does not say they must be made to live 'again'. Since they cannot fathom spirits alive in heaven after death, they cannot understand spiritual rebirth as a resurrection from spiritual death to spiritual life in Christ. So trying to prove two resurrections for them becomes a moot point.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

If we read the souls in Rev 20 as having been made to come alive 'again', it's easy to see how some would assume two first resurrections of the dead separated by one thousand literal years.

To understand Rev 20 it's necessary to believe we go to heaven alive when we die because we have been raised to spiritual life through the resurrection of Christ in life, and this life we have through Him is forever. Therefore as living (soul) spirits we NEVER die, so we don't need to be made alive 'again'. Because in Christ we ARE ALREADY ALIVE SPIRITUALLY. That's why Paul tells us "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

So when speaking of the resurrection, I believe it is important to show the Bible speaks only of the "first resurrection" in time, and through this resurrection of Christ we take part in when we are born again, or born from above. And the bodily resurrection on the last day for every human.

So the real obstacle, I believe, is to prove through the abundance of Scripture that believers go to heaven when they die, and as Christ tells us in the resurrection (spiritual) we become as the angels in heaven; i.e celestial beings. Why? Because God is not the God of the dead, but the living.

Matthew 22:30 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

 

[sovereigngrace]

How am I contradicting myself? I indicated I see the first resurrection as a type of resurrection. It would fit under the category of the resurrection unto life, as in unto eternal life. And that this resurrection always precedes the other resurrection, where that resurrection fits under the category of the resurrection unto damnation.

Christ rose first. Which of these two categories above did He rise in? The category of the resurrection unto life. Did any resurrection having to do with the other category, the resurrection unto damnation, precede His? No.

What about the dead in Christ who rise first? Which resurrection category will they rise in? The resurrection unto life. Does any resurrection having to do with the other category, the resurrection unto damnation, precede this resurrection? No.

If there are 2 categories, the resurrection unto life, where that category refers to the first resurrection, and the resurrection unto damnation being the other category, how can Christ and those that sleep in Him not rise in the first resurrection, regardless that Christ is resurrected before those that sleep in Him are? All of them still rise first. All of them still rise before the damned rise. IOW then, it is first in more ways than one. It is first because Christ rose in this type of resurrection first. It is also first because the dead in Christ also rise in this same type of resurrection, and that they rise before those in the remaining type of resurrection, the resurrection unto damnation, do.


While it's on my mind, speaking of sleeping in Christ, and that they rise first, how is it possible that the martyrs in Revelation 20:4 are not meaning any of these?

There is only one first resurrection in Scripture. You are trying to invent 2. That does not add up. It is confusion. It is obviously done to support your theological bias and the error of Premil.

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

 

[claninja]

There is nowhere that scripture calls the quickening of the human spirit by the Spirit of God (the spiritual new-birth experience), "a or the" (spiritual) resurrection. This belief exists only in your own mind because in order to have developed and maintain your belief in what you say, in your mind you add the word "resurrection" whenever the new birth is spoken of (even though it's not there), and leave out all the New Testament verses which use the Greek word egeiro which are not even talking about any resurrection.

You are correct that the NT never explicitly refers to "being born again" as the term resurrection. However, that is not enough of an argument to state that the 1st resurrection does not refer to being born again. For example, the Father, Son, and Spirit are never referred by the term trinity or triune God, should then we thrown out the doctrine of the trinity? No of course not.

According to revelation the 1st resurrection involves those who live and reign with Christ, through being beheaded for Jesus' testimony, for not worshiping the beast, and not receiving the mark of the beast.

revelation 20:4-5 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Also, according to revelation, those who partake in the 1st resurrection are not affected by the 2nd death, but are a kingdom of priests to God.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Can this be found in other scripture to help us with the meaning of this passage? Yes.

1.) Peter declares that we are ROYAL priesthood to God already.

1 peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light

2.) Jesus specifically states that the one who "overcomes" will not be hurt by the 2nd death, just as the one who partakes in the 1st resurrection, according to revelation 20, will not be hurt by the 2nd death. So what does it mean to "overcome"?
Revelation 2:10-11 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.

Well, according to John, to be "overcome" means to be born of God through our faith in believing that Jesus is the son of God.
1 John 1:4-5 everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Therefore by using other scripture to help us with the parabolic language of revelation 20, we can see that the 1st resurrection refers to those who are born again. For it is those who "overcome"/born of God that are not hurt by the 2nd death and are a kingdom of priests to God.