Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[All Becomes New]

I'm the one that doesn't understand that God isn't immoral?

Thanks for demonstrating you don't have the slightest clue what the argument actually is. No one is saying God is immoral. We are saying God is above morality. In other words, God created morality for humans because His standard of morality for humans is what is best for us. But God is not a human. God is Spirit.

So before you make any other wild accusations against me and how I am a heretic, perhaps you want to actually understand what I am saying first?

 

[Gary K]

Thanks for demonstrating you don't have the slightest clue what the argument actually is. No one is saying God is immoral. We are saying God is above morality. In other words, God created morality for humans because His standard of morality for humans is what is best for us. But God is not a human. God is Spirit.

So before you make any other wild accusations against me and how I am a heretic, perhaps you want to actually understand what I am saying first?

Oh, I understand your argmuent very well. Saying God is above morality is just the same as saying God is immoral and can ignore His own laws. You and your beloved doctor are the ones who do not understand evil for it is evil to charge someone with doing whatever they please with no regard as to right and wrong.

 

[All Becomes New]

Therefore you say God sins and you agree with the Phareesees that Jesus sinned.
He is our morality. In Him we live move and have our being.It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

Look, God gave us rules. God is the rule giver. That does not mean that He is the rule or needs to follow the rule. It means He gave us rules because humans, as fallible as we are, are like children who need structure. But what structure does God need? A God who can literally break the laws of physics whenever he wants?

Yes because the pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath not John

Yes. Where does John or Christ say they are wrong? Do you assume that everything that the Pharisees did was completely wrong? I'll give you one example where the Pharisees were right: Caiaphas literally prophecied Christ's death. And I am pretty dang sure you would agree he was right about that.

Good has been defined by love and on this hang, depends all the Law and prophets.

I agree completely.

So as you are not taken out of context, where?

Now you don't want things taken out of context? After you've called me a heretic and that I believe in subjective morality?

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second one." (Hebrews 8:7)

 

[All Becomes New]

Oh, I understand your argmuent very well. Saying God is above morality is just the same as saying God is immoral and can ignore His own laws. You and your beloved doctor are the ones who do not understand evil for it is evil to charge someone with doing whatever they please with no regard as to right and wrong.

Tell me what the purpose of the Law is? Feel free to read Romans 6 if you need a refresher.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Look, God gave us rules. God is the rule giver. That does not mean that He is the rule or needs to follow the rule. It means He gave us rules because humans, as fallible as we are, are like children who need structure. But what structure does God need? A God who can literally break the laws of physics whenever he wants?



Yes. Where does John or Christ say they are wrong? Do you assume that everything that the Pharisees did was completely wrong? I'll give you one example where the Pharisees were right: Caiaphas literally prophecied Christ's death. And I am pretty dang sure you would agree he was right about that.



I agree completely.



Now you don't want things taken out of context? After you've called me a heretic and that I believe in subjective morality?

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second one." (Hebrews 8:7)

Well I believe Jesus….

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6

The commandments reflect the very character of God, which we are called to take on His character.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Tell me what the purpose of the Law is? Feel free to read Romans 6 if you need a refresher.

Two choices….

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Sin is defined as breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 and points right to the Ten Romans 7:7

 

[Gary K]

Look, God gave us rules. God is the rule giver. That does not mean that He is the rule or needs to follow the rule. It means He gave us rules because humans, as fallible as we are, are like children who need structure. But what structure does God need? A God who can literally break the laws of physics whenever he wants?



Yes. Where does John or Christ say they are wrong? Do you assume that everything that the Pharisees did was completely wrong? I'll give you one example where the Pharisees were right: Caiaphas literally prophecied Christ's death. And I am pretty dang sure you would agree he was right about that.



I agree completely.



Now you don't want things taken out of context? After you've called me a heretic and that I believe in subjective morality?

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second one." (Hebrews 8:7)

What makes you think God breaks the laws of physics? Do you think our understanding of the universe is equal to His? You just keep on exposing how little you understand and love God.

 

[All Becomes New]

If you keep My commandments,

Please give me a list of the commandments Christ gives.

Two choices….

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Sin is defined as breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 and points right to the Ten Romans 7:7

That verse from Romans 6:16 is not the purpose of the law.

No one can keep God's Law. That's the point of the Gospel.

 

[All Becomes New]

What makes you think God breaks the laws of physics? Do you think our understanding of the universe is equal to His? You just keep on exposing how little you understand and love God.

I'd say the resurrection of Christ surely did break the laws of physics. As did the resurrection of Lazarus.

 

[Gary K]

Tell me what the purpose of the Law is? Feel free to read Romans 6 if you need a refresher.

I understand Romans 6 very well thank you. If I were a betting man I would bet everything I own that you are a Sunday keeper. Why? Because of your attitude towards God. I've yet to meet a Sabbath keeper who holds to your immoral beliefs. Those who really love God love Him enough to take Him at His word and obey His commands not substitute a belief of their own.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please give me a list of the commandments Christ gives.

We can start with the Ten spoken and written by God’s own finger which defines sin Rom 7.7 and what Jesus came to save us from, not in Mat 1:21

That verse from Romans 6:16 is not the purpose of the law.

The purpose of the law is to show us our sin so we know what not to do Rom 7:7 and to depend on God’s righteousness Psa 119:172 Rom 6:16 shows us our choices.

No one can keep God's Law. That's the point of the Gospel.

We have a different version of God He would not command us to keep something without giving us the power to do so. It’s the “other spirit” who thinks we can’t overcome sin through Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Out of concern I want to or must say to Seventh Day Adventists and those who count on keeping sabbath to save

Do those who agree that God commands us "not to take God's name in vain" really think that they can earn salvation by "not taking God's name in vain"? I think we all agree that such is not the case. Just because we agree with the Commandments of God - does not mean that we think that if we "honor our father and mother" we are earning our way to heaven.

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

Paul also says it is not true one day considers one day more important one and others everyday alike

No he does not.

In Rom 14 Paul is speaking of the God approved days in Lev 23 - the annual holy days and he says that one OBSERVES ONE ABOVE the others while another man observes them all.

In Gal 4 by contrast - Paul condemns even ONE observance of a pagan holy day. Gal 4:9-11

as paul said if you are circumcised christ will profit you nothing that it also applies to any work that christ did not command such as sabbath

The only commandment Christ does not mention is "do not take God's name in vain" (which is not an argument for taking God's name in vain - as we all know)

Heb 8 - Paul says it is Christ at Sinai speaking the TEN - HE is the one that says "Remember the Sabbath day"
Mark 2:27 Christ said "the Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind made for the Sabbath"
Matt 5 - Jesus said not to teach or even think that his role is to delete even one of God's commandments.
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

 

[All Becomes New]

I understand Romans 6 very well thank you. If I were a betting man I would bet everything I own that you are a Sunday keeper. Why? Because of your attitude towards God. I've yet to meet a Sabbath keeper who holds to your immoral beliefs. Those who really love God love Him enough to take Him at His word and obey His commands not substitute a belief of their own.

Should be a simple matter of Christ giving a command to keep the Sabbath then.

 

[Gary K]

I'd say the resurrection of Christ surely did break the laws of physics. As did the resurrection of Lazarus.

See, there you go again not trusting God and thinking man is God's equal. He is infinite and we are finite. That should have been our first clue. Infinity is infinitely above being finite. So how can you claim to know everything God knows? I would never make such a claim let alone think it.

 

[All Becomes New]

The purpose of the law is to show us our sin Rom 7:7

Bingo.

We have a different version of God He would not command us to keep something without giving us the power to do so. It’s the “other spirit” who thinks we can’t overcome sin through Christ.

What exactly are you accusing me of?

 

[Gary K]

Should be a simple matter of Christ giving a command to keep the Sabbath then.

He did on Sinai.

 

[All Becomes New]

He is infinite and we are finite.

Exactly. Which is why an infinity God does not need to follow finite rules.

 

[All Becomes New]

He did on Sinai.

Do you keep all 613 commandments in the Law?

 

[Gary K]

Exactly. Which is why an infinity God does not need to follow finite rules.

If God is moral He has to follow His own moral laws.

 

[All Becomes New]

If God is moral He has to follow His own moral laws.

By golly, I think he is getting the hang of it!