Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

[JustOneWay]

Depends on what is the question

Correct. And my answer is directed towards those questions where the answer is no.

 

[jacks]

These people who ‘don’t want to work," how are they paying their bills? I don’t know any of them myself but I do know a lot of people who retired, went back to school, or moved into a different line of work during COVID.

Apparently many people "don't want to work" for various reasons. From the US Chamber of Commerce.

• Half (49%) of Americans who became unemployed during the pandemic say they are not actively or not very actively looking for work; less than a third (32%) report that they are strongly active in their job search.
• Six in 10 respondents (61%) say they are in no hurry to return to work. Three in 10 (30%) say they do not expect to return to work this year, with nearly half of those (13% of the total) saying they never plan to return to work.
• One in eight (13%) who became unemployed during the pandemic and remain unemployed have turned down at least one job offer in the past year.
• One in six not actively seeking work (16%) say the amount of money they are receiving from unemployment benefits and government programs makes it “not worth looking” for work.
• Even more–28 percent of survey respondents–agree that “There are a lot of people who are not looking for work because they can do almost or just as well collecting unemployment benefits.”

 

[trophy33]

Even more–28 percent of survey respondents–agree that “There are a lot of people who are not looking for work because they can do almost or just as well collecting unemployment benefits.”

Which tells us how poorly are some job positions paid. Or that some people simply do not value money as much as others and value their free time more.

 

[MorkandMindy]

How do people get by without government aid?
- by working as hard as possible.

The minimum wage where I am is 9.35 per hour, round it up to 10.00
Work 3,000 hours per year.
Rent is 1,000 dollars per month.
My total income after rent would be 18,000 dollars per year.

This year I had an operation that took the doctor 2 hours owing to an unusual amount of connective tissue in the area.

The surgery cost 25,000 dollars, the anesthetist 6,000 dollars, the pre-operative scans 19,000 dollars.
A total of 50,000 dollars.

With no government help and paying no taxes, my net income for the year would have been -32,000 dollars.

 

[rjs330]

Which tells us how poorly are some job positions paid. Or that some people simply do not value money as much as others and value their free time more.

Then why do we need all this universal income if people are able to live okay right now? Apparently they don't need all that money after all.

 

[trophy33]

Then why do we need all this universal income if people are able to live okay right now? Apparently they don't need all that money after all.

We do not "need" it right now. Its a concept that will make sense in the (near) future regarding more and more automation and robotization. Society will get so rich and so many work places will not need humans to do them that the universal basic income is the only idea in the playground now.

In the EU where states pay many various social benefits based on many factors, it would also hypothetically bring more simplicity to the social area, paying just one amount to everybody. Some say it would even be cheaper.

 

[rjs330]

Women with children should stay at home and care for them. Except those lazy single moms and poor married mothers. They need to get their butts to work.

Let's see here. It's best for kids with a married mother and father and an intact home. It's better for kids when mom stays home during their younger years and dad works to provide for the family. Thats best.

HOWEVER, circumstances happen and sometimes mom can't stay home. Mom is single and so can't stay home. Under those circumstances mom needs to work. It's not ideal but it's necessary. And because we are compassionate people we understand in those circumstances maybe mom needs some help. What mom doesn't need is for everyone to foot all her and her children's money needs so she can stay home for years. No she needs to go to work, or get and education so she can work and provide for her kids. It's not everyone else's responsibility to take care of everything while mom sits home.

 

[rjs330]

It’s certainly due for an overhaul, especially with the imminent threat of automation. Robots doing our work shouldn’t make our lives harder.

It’s not “other people’s money,” it’s federal spending going directly into your pocket. Further, if you’re truly interested in family values you should be all for allowing mothers to stay home and focus on raising their children well rather than expecting them to work a job all day.

Part of family values is teaching kids NOT to demand other people's.money. Thats called being covetous. Part of good family values is working hard and providing for yourself and your family so others don't have to give you their hard earned money.

Yes it is other people's money. All tax money is money given to the government taken away from people's pockets. The less taken away the better. It's wrong for me as an individual to demand tax dollars be given to me.

Family values is NOT just about mom staying home. Cause sometimes mom can't. It's best if she can, but life doesn't always operate that way. There could be a number of reasons why she can't. She should be showing her family the value of hard work and not being a burden in others.

 

[rjs330]

We do not "need" it right now. Its a concept that will make sense in the (near) future regarding more and more automation and robotization. Society will get so rich and so many work places will not need humans to do them that the universal basic income is the only idea in the playground now.

In the EU where states pay many various social benefits based on many factors, it would also hypothetically bring more simplicity to the social area, paying just one amount to everybody. Some say it would even be cheaper.

And where does all this money come from? If people are not working they are not paying taxes. The government is not collecting tax dollars to pay out for everyone. Where's all this universals income money going to come from?

 

[rjs330]

Which tells us how poorly are some job positions paid. Or that some people simply do not value money as much as others and value their free time more.

By the way, free time doesn't put food in the table or gas in the car. If you can suddenly live on less than you did before, I guess you didn't need to be paid a higher wage after all.

 

[trophy33]

And where does all this money come from? If people are not working they are not paying taxes. The government is not collecting tax dollars to pay out for everyone. Where's all this universals income money going to come from?

Why do you think people will not be working?

The unemployment rate in the EU is roughly 8%, even though there are benefits people can live on without a job. The majority of people wants more than just basic survival and will not be satisfied sitting at home and being bored.

 

[trophy33]

By the way, free time doesn't put food in the table or gas in the car. If you can suddenly live on less than you did before, I guess you didn't need to be paid a higher wage after all.

Most people do not need a car if not for work.

And having lower income without work will give you free time that may be more valuable for people who do not want to be slaves for 12 hours in some fastfood and get paid just slightly above survival money.

 

[ozso]

No, it isn't because it's a disincentive to work. Why work if the government will provide all of one's essentials anyway?

That's taken place already to some degree, needless to say.

 

[ozso]

Universal Income would pretty much equal epidemic unemployment. Most everyone would essentially be retired. So that means most everyone would have to become self sufficient. Which would mean working 18 hours a day like a lone farmer/rancher before the industrial revolution took place. Unless we can get robots to do everything for us. But we already know from Dune, Battlestar Galactica, The Terminator, and The Matrix that the machines would take over.

 

[gaara4158]

Part of family values is teaching kids NOT to demand other people's.money. Thats called being covetous. Part of good family values is working hard and providing for yourself and your family so others don't have to give you their hard earned money.

Yes it is other people's money. All tax money is money given to the government taken away from people's pockets. The less taken away the better. It's wrong for me as an individual to demand tax dollars be given to me.

Family values is NOT just about mom staying home. Cause sometimes mom can't. It's best if she can, but life doesn't always operate that way. There could be a number of reasons why she can't. She should be showing her family the value of hard work and not being a burden in others.

It is by definition not someone else’s money if they don’t have legal claim to it. Federal funds going towards the general welfare is something our nation was founded on. You seem to have the intuitive understanding that wealth ought to belong to the people who put in the labor to create it, not the people who set themselves up through legal machinations to receive it without working, and I agree. The capital owner class shouldn’t exist.

 

[trophy33]

It is by definition not someone else’s money if they don’t have legal claim to it. Federal funds going towards the general welfare is something our nation was founded on. You seem to have the intuitive understanding that wealth ought to belong to the people who put in the labor to create it, not the people who set themselves up through legal machinations to receive it without working, and I agree. The capital owner class shouldn’t exist.

It seems that the US economy is based upon the poor ones paying the whole system while the rich ones having the lowest or 0 taxes (or even negative).

So, the "american dream" is to work so hard (or to come with some briliant idea) that one gets rich and gets out of the working class that pays everything.

It produces a lot of stress, fears, overworked and unhealthy people and few rich on the top who are above the system and who influence the system to their even higher benefit and to hinder the redistribution of their wealth.

 

[Matt5]

Intent
UBI transfers money saved by automation to production workers replaced by automation.

Source
It is a tax levied on production inside the country and manufactured goods imported into the country, so it can not be avoided by automating outside the country.

Beneficiaries
It is currently proposed as 1,000 dollars per month to every citizen or resident in the US irrespective of other income or circumstances.

This is a really bad idea. This is the equivalent of putting out fires in the forest. What happens to a forest after a long time of putting out fires?

What is needed are controlled burns at set interval. We know this as the Shemitah. That includes automatic debt release at the end of every 7-year period.

 

[rjs330]

Why do you think people will not be working?

The unemployment rate in the EU is roughly 8%, even though there are benefits people can live on without a job. The majority of people wants more than just basic survival and will not be satisfied sitting at home and being bored.

My mistake. I thought that's what you were thinking about when you said this:

We do not "need" it right now. Its a concept that will make sense in the (near) future regarding more and more automation and robotization. Society will get so rich and so many work places will not need humans to do them that the universal basic income is the only idea in the playground now.

 

[rjs330]

Most people do not need a car if not for work.

And having lower income without work will give you free time that may be more valuable for people who do not want to be slaves for 12 hours in some fastfood and get paid just slightly above survival money.

I don't know where you live, but most people here need a car to go anywhere. You need a car to get a haircut, see the doctor, buy groceries, go somewhere to hike, go to the hardware store etc.

Lower income? Great, you have some free time but you can't do anything or go anywhere cause you don't have any money. All your money is going for survival.

And no one is a slave anymore. And no one works 12 hours a day at McDonalds for little wages. Around here McDonalds is paying at least 15 an hour.

Also are you aware that most people over 25 are at least middle class?

Geez you act like most people are living off bread crumbs or working a million hours a day to get by. That's simply not true.

 

[trophy33]

Also are you aware that most people over 25 are at least middle class?

Geez you act like most people are living off bread crumbs or working a million hours a day to get by. That's simply not true.

Regarding USA, the middle class is actually much closer to the poor class than to the rich. About 50% of Americans live from paycheck to paycheck, having no reserves (63% since COVID). Constantly in some debt or on some credit.