Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

[MorkandMindy]

I don't have a problem with it either. Some people really need help. And the way our welfare system works is really bad. It's set up to keep people on it.

Yes, it's set up to keep people on it, if they are currently on it, to prevent them from getting off it (the poverty trap),

and to keep new people who aren't on it, off it.

It's bad for everybody.

I really don't get it.

 

[rjs330]

Technical skills, healthcare specialties, etc.

How many did that? You guys keep.making that claim, but aren't showing any evidence a lot of people actually did it. It takes longer than 6 months or so to get these technical skills.

I'd like to see the stats that reveal all these folks did that and how many there were.

 

[cow451]

How many did that? You guys keep.making that claim, but aren't showing any evidence a lot of people actually did it. It takes longer than 6 months or so to get these technical skills.

I'd like to see the stats that reveal all these folks did that and how many there were.

Psssst, it’s called getting training. You may have heard of it. College, technical school and stuff.

 

[rjs330]

Those 4.9% slackers who are ballooning the unemployment rolls!

Yes if you are on unemployment right now with all the jobs available you are a slacker. You should be working instead of living off others.

 

[rjs330]

Psssst, it’s called getting training. You may have heard of it. College, technical school and stuff.

You can move up that much going to College just for 6 months? I find that hard to believe. You can't get a degree in six months. Even technical schools don't do that. Especially this last year. They closed down like a lot of places. I'm not seeing it. I need some real evidence.

 

[cow451]

Resolute Forest Products ending paper making at old Bowater plant - WDEF

Yes if you are on unemployment right now with all the jobs available you are a slacker. You should be working instead of living off others.

Oddly enough, there are brief periods caused by companies doing things like closing.
Resolute says they will eliminate 350 hourly and salary positions over the next 60 days as they end production

 

[cow451]

You can move up that much going to College just for 6 months? I find that hard to believe. You can't get a degree in six months. Even technical schools don't do that. Especially this last year. They closed down like a lot of places. I'm not seeing it. I need some real evidence.

How dense are you? People that quit to go back to school quit to go back to school. Nobody is saying that a career change is instantaneous. You’re being ridiculous.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Please be kind, we're all Christians here and we are trying to understand things.

There is a lot of false information around and that makes it easy to misunderstand things.

I quit work once to retrain and didn't get along as quickly as I expected, and decades later discovered I had PTSD. I didn't know it, but I couldn't at the time learn highly structured things, particularly mathematics, though I was good at other things.

It was fairly mild PTSD compared with what some people had, and mainly prevented high levels of concentration.

Sometimes retraining doesn't go as expected, my own professor was surprised at what I could and could not do, and had no idea why.

Life can be difficult to understand.

 

[Pommer]

Yes if you are on unemployment right now with all the jobs available you are a slacker. You should be working instead of living off others.

That’s not what unemployment insurance is, though, it’s “insurance”, it’s right there in the title.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I would answer your question, with a question...

Is it the answer to what?

Even conservative economists like Milton Friedman suggested that something like a "negative income tax" could be a solution for people who are currently on a welfare, as it would still put the same amount of money in their hands as they're currently getting (via tax policy), but eliminate government bureaucracy that makes the process more expensive.

If you're asking if it's a solution to automation-related issues, I'd say that's a bit of a longshot.

People tend to think of automation as something that only impacts the "low-skill workers" (as that's largely the group it's impacted up until now).

But I think people need to consider the reality that it'll impact a much wider percentage of the population, and end up displacing people who a UBI payment simply can't accommodate (to the amount they were currently making) and that's when it'll get messy and we'll see higher levels of disgruntlement.


For instance, if we made a rule right now that says "Everyone gets $2000/month, do with it what you want". The person who works the grocery store or gas station or fast food restaurant will likely be pretty happy. Because, even if their job is automated away, they'll still have more money in their pocket every month than what they were making at their current job.

How does that start to play out when automation creates an algorithm that's better at detecting cancer than a trained and experienced radiologist who was making $275k/year (and devoted 10 years of their life to college, and paid back exorbitant debts as a result), when they get automated out of their job, are they going to be happy with $2k/month, or does having their job replaced by a $2k/month check mean that they're going to have to find a way to sell their house and completely change their standard of living?

The radiologist, or chemical engineer, etc... who gets laid off isn't going to be nearly as content with that 2k/month check as the person who formerly worked at the local BP station.

The resentment factor will kick in...it's just human nature.

 

[Sparagmos]

I meant people who don't want to work, even though there are jobs available. Sorry, not quite sure what you are asking so my answer might seem too obvious.

These people who ‘don’t want to work," how are they paying their bills? I don’t know any of them myself but I do know a lot of people who retired, went back to school, or moved into a different line of work during COVID.

 

[trophy33]

Why in the world do we think we deserve a chunk of other people's money.

Its not about "deserving" its about realizing that public insurance for eveybody or free education for everybody is more effective than "everybody for himself" in the long run. In developed societies.

And the most developed countries in Europe now experiment with the basic income as an alternative to various social benefits, it could be cheaper, because it will not need so many forms and office workers to administrate it. So instead of benefit for housing, benefit for electricity, retirement payments... there will be just one benefit.

But making people pay others so mom can stay home?

What is the alternative:
a) abortion
b) taking her baby to work place
c) losing job and homelessness
d) being rich

In developed societies (USA is still not there) all citizens have elementary securities so that they do not have to fear their whole life that they will get sick, injured, pregnant or lose job.

It will make life good for everyone, not just for the few on the top like in the USA.

 

[Nithavela]

And who is going to pay for that? Man that's what I don't understand. Why in the world do we think we deserve a chunk of other people's money. Or think it's okay to make other people give their money to others.

I get trying to help the poor who are genuinely poor cause they have a disability or something. But making people pay others so mom can stay home?

Why do I deserve other people's money?

There used to be a time when "mom can stay at home" was the default.

Any idea what happened?

 

[cow451]

There used to be a time when "mom can stay at home" was the default.

Any idea what happened?

Women with children should stay at home and care for them. Except those lazy single moms and poor married mothers. They need to get their butts to work.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Women with children should stay at home and care for them. Except those lazy single moms and poor married mothers. They need to get their butts to work.

Hmm, by your rating it appears that someone does not understand sarcasm.

 

[Nithavela]

Hmm, by your rating it appears that someone does not understand sarcasm.

Somebody doesn't.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Somebody doesn't.

Oh sorry. I saw the name but did not recognize it. Unfortunately there are too many here that would have made your prior post seriously. I see my error now.

Edit: I tend to recognize avatars better than user names. So when I saw yours I went "oops!"

 

[gaara4158]

I don't have a problem with it either. Some people really need help. And the way our welfare system works is really bad. It's set up to keep people on it.

It’s certainly due for an overhaul, especially with the imminent threat of automation. Robots doing our work shouldn’t make our lives harder.

And who is going to pay for that? Man that's what I don't understand. Why in the world do we think we deserve a chunk of other people's money. Or think it's okay to make other people give their money to others.

I get trying to help the poor who are genuinely poor cause they have a disability or something. But making people pay others so mom can stay home?

Why do I deserve other people's money?

It’s not “other people’s money,” it’s federal spending going directly into your pocket. Further, if you’re truly interested in family values you should be all for allowing mothers to stay home and focus on raising their children well rather than expecting them to work a job all day.

 

[JustOneWay]

Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

no

 

[trophy33]

Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

no

Depends on what is the question