Is Universal Basic Income the answer?

[gaara4158]

Again, it might depend on where you are at. Here the minimum wage is $13.69 per hour, though everyone is advertising at least $15 per hour. That's really not a bad wage for unskilled work.

“Unskilled workers” disagree, apparently. Either that or most workers have taken the time to acquire a specialized skill.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I'm trying to form an opinion of how the world of employment actually works. It appears it may contain two distinct parts:

1. A profit-driven part where there is a relentless drive to reduce staffing numbers

2. An employment-driven part that is usually government-funded, where the objective is to maximize employment.

I've worked in both and interfaced with both.

1. is driven by the Milton Friedman Doctrine:
The Social Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits
By Milton Friedman (Published in NY Times 1970 Sep 13)

Working in a low-staff and profit-driven environment was initially a challenge to improve speed and efficiency. But as staffing levels were cut in successive years, we all found the challenge changed progressively from difficult to impossible.

 

[MorkandMindy]

2. I'm currently having problems with yet another government agency. The agency sent instructions for creating an account, creating a username, and creating a password.

The agency explained these three simple actions early in the four printed pages they sent out. But it wasn't until after explaining these actions that the instructions told me not to do those things.

It was pretty obvious they are total timewasters and aim only to keep themselves and others employed.

But can I blame them?

 

[cow451]

Who do we give money to besides the poor, disabled, and other countries?

Armed Forces

 

[rjs330]

Hardly any of our money goes to those places. https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/categories/

Most of our money goes to welfare programs, 69% between Medicaid, medicare, Obama care, and social Security.

 

[rjs330]

Is that what you would do?

We've already seen it happen. All the people that stayed on unemployment during CoVID cause it was better than working. They waited until the money ran out before going back to work.

 

[trophy33]

.

 

[rjs330]

“Unskilled workers” disagree, apparently. Either that or most workers have taken the time to acquire a specialized skill.

What kind of specialized skills did they get that would start out with higher pay?

 

[MorkandMindy]

Type 2 - The employment creating jobs:

Prof. David Graeber wrote the book 'Bullsh** Jobs' in which he revealed a lot of people in the world of work spend most of their time doing nothing useful.

I think this is most obvious in a developing country when for example, the backfill for a building is dumped 200 yards away and then carried by workmen to where it is needed. This distance adds a little to the total construction cost but gives much-needed employment to the area.

 

[MorkandMindy]

There are also plenty of examples here in the US of BullSh** Jobs.

When I enquired about Medicaid, the state agency referenced SSA 1902, among other documents, so that I could check my eligibility.

There is nothing quite like having a quick look at SSA1902 for a bit of insight into our welfare maze.

It is impossible for many applicants to get through some of these government documents, and wastes the time of welfare administrators, most of whom I'm sure have a lot of better things to do.

I always think of mothers in big SUVs arriving at the big school opposite, off loading their kids and zooming off to work in big offices, all to get enough money to pay for the SUVs, maybe, to juggle various responsibilities and just barely get by.


Maybe UBI would allow those mothers, and other people, just enough money to become full-time parents for a while. Then their whole family might benefit.

BS jobs do nothing for the country and nothing for those who do them.

 

[gaara4158]

Most of our money goes to welfare programs, 69% between Medicaid, medicare, Obama care, and social Security.

These programs benefit babies and the elderly, not necessarily the poor, disabled, or other countries.

What kind of specialized skills did they get that would start out with higher pay?

The kind that allow them to turn down menial labor without driving up unemployment. If you want to know how you can get a higher paying job as well, I recommend getting an education or going through a trade apprenticeship program.

 

[MorkandMindy]

UBI is about freedom, to work part-time and survive while up-skilling.

Up-skilling, as you said, allows you to get a better job that doesn't compete for the much sought entry level low-skilled jobs.

It's good for people and good for the country.

UBI should decrease anxiety about unexpectedly losing employment and with it income and even housing and healthcare.

There could be a concern about UBI making people complacent. In my opinion that is less of a problem than getting overly anxious, and I think I have data to support that, but I could be wrong.

 

[rjs330]

These programs benefit babies and the elderly, not necessarily the poor, disabled, or other countries.

The kind that allow them to turn down menial labor without driving up unemployment. If you want to know how you can get a higher paying job as well, I recommend getting an education or going through a trade apprenticeship program.

People told us why they are not going back to work.

It was child care, fear of COVID and high unemployment payments.

Millions Are Unemployed. Why Can’t Companies Find Workers?

By the way. I have a good paying job, and a degree. I'm not looking for work.

So all these programs use almost 70% of our tax money. And you think we need to pay more? Exactly how much of our tax money should go to welfare programs?

 

[gaara4158]

People told us why they are not going back to work.

It was child care, fear of COVID and high unemployment payments.

Millions Are Unemployed. Why Can’t Companies Find Workers?

By the way. I have a good paying job, and a degree. I'm not looking for work.

So all these programs use almost 70% of our tax money. And you think we need to pay more? Exactly how much of our tax money should go to welfare programs?

These people have all gone back to work, as evidenced by the low unemployment numbers. There are nearly 400 million American citizens. Unemployment in the millions isn’t serious.
Tax money doesn’t go anywhere. Taxes are how US currency is destroyed. Money is printed to pay for government spending. I, for one, have no problem with federal spending going towards the general welfare, and neither did the founding fathers.

 

[MorkandMindy]

A big pro for UBI is the law of diminishing returns.

An extra billion dollars for a big investor who already has 100 billion dollars isn't going to totally change his life,

but 500 dollars a month would transform the life of a mother I used to work with. Her nursery school fees and car costs use up most of her earnings.

That's diminishing returns; 500 dollars on top of 1,200 income is more than 1 billion dollars on top of 100 billion.

It's better to spread money around in small UBIs than to do a Trump tax cut for billionaires.

We need to remember to include human happiness in our economics.

 

[Peter J Barban]

I'm open to the idea, but I want to see more tests done first. Also, the US can't give out free money. have open borders, and control inflation. That's not a long-term solution.

 

[Tanj]

We've already seen it happen. All the people that stayed on unemployment during CoVID cause it was better than working. They waited until the money ran out before going back to work.

Unemployment is not UBI and suggesting what happened during a pandemic is par for the course is...not sure there's words I'm allowed to use.

Also, no, they didn't.

Finally, I wasn't asking what dreadful opinion do you hold of your fellow man, I'm already aware. I was asking what *you* would do.

 

[Nithavela]

Most of our money goes to welfare programs, 69% between Medicaid, medicare, Obama care, and social Security.

You could get a lot more bang for your buck if you adopted singer payer models.

 

[cow451]

Most of our money goes to welfare programs, 69% between Medicaid, medicare, Obama care, and social Security.

Universal healthcare would cover three of those.

 

[cow451]

We've already seen it happen. All the people that stayed on unemployment during CoVID cause it was better than working. They waited until the money ran out before going back to work.

Many have decided to stay at home due to lack of childcare or to become self-employed.