Is there separate heavens?

[d taylor]

Hello again, I was just thinking ... I`m not antisocial or something, but I don`t really want to live with humans in heaven only animals ... what does God do in these situations, is there separate heavens perhap? You could say I will not go to heaven for not loving others enough to want to stay with them forever but I really don`t want to anymore, so what does he to in these situations?

Not loving others has nothing to do with or if a person has eternal life salvation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A number of years ago I came across what could be described as kind of a parable, that I think can be helpful here:

A man passed on and was escorted by an angel to a large banquet hall, the hall was filled with massive tables with delicious, luxurious food spread upon them. Around these tables were seated untold numbers of people. However in spite of all the food and given all this luxury the people seated around the tables seemed absolutely miserable. As the man looked closer he saw the cause of their misery: The spoons with which they were given were incredibly long, and so as they spooned up their food to feed themselves, the spoon was incredibly unwieldy and they continued to drop their spoonfuls of food upon themselves and on the floor. And so they were growing frustrated, miserable, and hungry. As they kept trying to feed themselves they were left constantly unsatisfied.

The angel then whisked the man away to another large banquet hall, identical to the last. The hall was filled with massive tables, with all the same delicious food as before. All was identical, however the people seated around these tables were not miserable, even though they had the same long spoons. Instead they were happy and joyous, because instead of trying to feed themselves they were able to use these spoons to reach across the table to feed others instead. And so rather than trying to feed themselves and going hungry and becoming miserable, they fed each other, and were satisfied and filled with joy toward one another.

The man finally figured out what these rooms were, the first which he saw was hell, and the second which he saw was heaven.

Heaven isn't about getting everything we want, but about our having been redeemed and transformed in Jesus, we now joyfully share in the love of God toward all creatures. For one doesn't desire crowns or palaces, or comforts, but rather desires others, and to give oneself away freely in love. For we have been conformed to the image of Christ who freely gave Himself away to us.

Hell is a better term to describe getting all that we want, and secluding ourselves. To go to a place where we would never have to face another person, to never again experience and share with any of God's creatures, but get to be alone, all to ourselves, with all the comforts we could ever desire for ourselves--miserably and unhappily--that is Hell.

To say that men choose Hell is not to say that men choose torture, but rather than men choose themselves. It is the choice of burying oneself as deeply as one can into the abyss of one's own selfish, de-humanizing heart. To describe it the way C.S. Lewis does in the Great Divorce, Hell begins as a grumble within ourselves, but for a time that grumble can be nipped in the bud, but if left to go on and on, eventually the grumble isn't simply inside ourselves, but that there is nothing left of us really left but the grumble. A grumbling machine going on and on, fundamentally devoid of any humanity, of anything that made us truly human. And what makes us human isn't our desires, our comfort, our self-directed pleasure; what makes us human is the image of God which is made plane and clear in Jesus.

There is a word in a couple of the Bantu languages of Southern Africa (namely Zulu and Xhosa), ubuntu. The word ubuntu can be translated as "humaneness" or "solidarity", but I once heard the meaning defined as, "I am, because you are", that is, it is recognizing my humanity in the humanity of my neighbor. I have relatedness, relationship, and connectedness with my fellow man. My humanity is not secluded to myself, but is discovered and uncovered in the humanity of others. Ubuntu isn't my humanity, ubuntu is our humanity. We are human together.

In Christianity we are human together, fully, in Jesus Christ.

"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." - Philippians 2:1-8

"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." - Romans 12:1-2

Christian hope and life is rooted in our hope and belief that God is not abandoning us to ourselves, but has saved, and is saving us; conforming us to the image of Christ, renewing us, healing us, and ultimately on the Last Day, at the resurrection of the body, glorified and sharing in the fullness of these things.

Christ said, "The greatest among you is your slave." For consistently Christ says that God's kingdom is not as the kingdoms of this world--where might, power, and glory are greatest, but where humility, sacrifice, and service are greatest. For this reason, the poor, the hungry, the and the oppressed are blessed, and the meek shall inherit the earth.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bèlla]

Practically speaking, it’s God’s house. How could you dictate where you’re placed? If someone welcomed you to their home and prepared your room are you gracious and appreciative of their hospitality or do you demand different accommodations?

 

[Jonaitis]

Hello again, I was just thinking ... I`m not antisocial or something, but I don`t really want to live with humans in heaven only animals ... what does God do in these situations, is there separate heavens perhap? You could say I will not go to heaven for not loving others enough to want to stay with them forever but I really don`t want to anymore, so what does he to in these situations?

The heaven you want isn't the heaven God has prepared for his people, it is your own fancy.

 

[Principium]

The heaven you want isn't the heaven God has prepared for his people, it is your own fancy.

Okay, guess I have to adapt to people then and accept that I have to live with them I guess

 

[Principium]

Practically speaking, it’s God’s house. How could you dictate where you’re placed? If someone welcomed you to their home and prepared your room are you gracious and appreciative of their hospitality or do you demand different accommodations?

Mhm I guess you`re right

 

[Principium]

A number of years ago I came across what could be described as kind of a parable, that I think can be helpful here:

A man passed on and was escorted by an angel to a large banquet hall, the hall was filled with massive tables with delicious, luxurious food spread upon them. Around these tables were seated untold numbers of people. However in spite of all the food and given all this luxury the people seated around the tables seemed absolutely miserable. As the man looked closer he saw the cause of their misery: The spoons with which they were given were incredibly long, and so as they spooned up their food to feed themselves, the spoon was incredibly unwieldy and they continued to drop their spoonfuls of food upon themselves and on the floor. And so they were growing frustrated, miserable, and hungry. As they kept trying to feed themselves they were left constantly unsatisfied.

The angel then whisked the man away to another large banquet hall, identical to the last. The hall was filled with massive tables, with all the same delicious food as before. All was identical, however the people seated around these tables were not miserable, even though they had the same long spoons. Instead they were happy and joyous, because instead of trying to feed themselves they were able to use these spoons to reach across the table to feed others instead. And so rather than trying to feed themselves and going hungry and becoming miserable, they fed each other, and were satisfied and filled with joy toward one another.

The man finally figured out what these rooms were, the first which he saw was hell, and the second which he saw was heaven.

Heaven isn't about getting everything we want, but about our having been redeemed and transformed in Jesus, we now joyfully share in the love of God toward all creatures. For one doesn't desire crowns or palaces, or comforts, but rather desires others, and to give oneself away freely in love. For we have been conformed to the image of Christ who freely gave Himself away to us.

Hell is a better term to describe getting all that we want, and secluding ourselves. To go to a place where we would never have to face another person, to never again experience and share with any of God's creatures, but get to be alone, all to ourselves, with all the comforts we could ever desire for ourselves--miserably and unhappily--that is Hell.

To say that men choose Hell is not to say that men choose torture, but rather than men choose themselves. It is the choice of burying oneself as deeply as one can into the abyss of one's own selfish, de-humanizing heart. To describe it the way C.S. Lewis does in the Great Divorce, Hell begins as a grumble within ourselves, but for a time that grumble can be nipped in the bud, but if left to go on and on, eventually the grumble isn't simply inside ourselves, but that there is nothing left of us really left but the grumble. A grumbling machine going on and on, fundamentally devoid of any humanity, of anything that made us truly human. And what makes us human isn't our desires, our comfort, our self-directed pleasure; what makes us human is the image of God which is made plane and clear in Jesus.

There is a word in a couple of the Bantu languages of Southern Africa (namely Zulu and Xhosa), ubuntu. The word ubuntu can be translated as "humaneness" or "solidarity", but I once heard the meaning defined as, "I am, because you are", that is, it is recognizing my humanity in the humanity of my neighbor. I have relatedness, relationship, and connectedness with my fellow man. My humanity is not secluded to myself, but is discovered and uncovered in the humanity of others. Ubuntu isn't my humanity, ubuntu is our humanity. We are human together.

In Christianity we are human together, fully, in Jesus Christ.

"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." - Philippians 2:1-8

"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." - Romans 12:1-2

Christian hope and life is rooted in our hope and belief that God is not abandoning us to ourselves, but has saved, and is saving us; conforming us to the image of Christ, renewing us, healing us, and ultimately on the Last Day, at the resurrection of the body, glorified and sharing in the fullness of these things.

Christ said, "The greatest among you is your slave." For consistently Christ says that God's kingdom is not as the kingdoms of this world--where might, power, and glory are greatest, but where humility, sacrifice, and service are greatest. For this reason, the poor, the hungry, the and the oppressed are blessed, and the meek shall inherit the earth.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks alot for the kind words from what you`ve read somewhere sometimes, I just kinda doubt heaven would be different from life on this planet, I know people act better when they get what they want but ... oh well, I guess heaven would be a good place then with all sort of people there living and having fun, it`s just hard to find the pleasure in thinking about the same people as they`re now being really

 

[Principium]

Not loving others has nothing to do with or if a person has eternal life salvation.

Ah, I just thought some says you have to tolerate others

 

[Principium]

It depends on how you define want as a soul in my opinion. Since my time to pass away hadn't yet came. I cannot tell how it feels.

But I can share something. In many instances I noticed that there are some particular people that are so kind and innocent in a way that I feel I long to them. Those people when you talk to them you get a bit isolated from the material world and you feel as if you were in heaven. I think in those times the soul-soul interaction that we will have in heaven is being prevailed on earth but in a limited way.

Also, the Bible spoke about all creatures waiting for the day of the lord (Romans 8:18-22), do you think animals will have a place as in Eden? Could be. (but if so, then again, not with their material bodies)

Yes, I know the feeling, sometimes being around others is really good really, but this generation today is really an awful group of people really

 

[Principium]

We don't know what "be around" actually means in heaven. We are just going by our present-day experiences. And we do not know if our likes and dislikes in this life will have the same pull with us in heaven as they do now. As I said before, our perspective is bound to be changed entirely.

Yes, but this generation of people today they talk alot sexually and swears alot and so forth, how can god stop they from doing it in heaven?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Not loving others has nothing to do with or if a person has eternal life salvation.

1 John 4:8-13

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes, but this generation of people today they talk alot sexually and swears alot and so forth, how can god stop they from doing it in heaven?

What your describing is being put off by, and not wanting to be around, sin and people who sin.

That's not going to be a problem in Heaven. There won't be any sin there.

However, Heaven is about being in God's presence, showered in His love for you, and worshipping Him with your perfected love for Him..

It's not the prom, it's about being in the presence of the living God, bathed in His Light and His Love.. Worshiping Him.

That is about you and your relationship with God. Not you and your relationship with others.

However, we aren't perfect. When we ask God to overlook and forgive who we are and our mistakes and sins, we must be willing to likewise forgive others theirs, with the same love for them that God has for you..

We are the light of Christ to the world, and through the Spirit of God, His Holy Spirit, we are able to love one another.

If you need that gift, the gift of the Holy Spirit to empower you to live and walk in Christ, then pray and ask God for this gift.

 

[Principium]

What your describing is being put off by, and not wanting to be around, sin and people who sin.

That's not going to be a problem in Heaven. There won't be any sin there.

However, Heaven is about being in God's presence, showered in His love for you, and worshipping Him with your perfected love for Him..

It's not the prom, it's about being in the presence of the living God, bathed in His Light and His Love.. Worshiping Him.

That is about you and your relationship with God. Not you and your relationship with others.

However, we aren't perfect. When we ask God to overlook and forgive who we are and our mistakes and sins, we must be willing to likewise forgive others theirs, with the same love for them that God has for you..

We are the light of Christ to the world, and through the Spirit of God, His Holy Spirit, we are able to love one another.

If you need that gift, the gift of the Holy Spirit to empower you to live and walk in Christ, then pray and ask God for this gift.

Yes and thanks alot for the long answer, perhaps god is so big and good that people will behave good, if they start swearing and talking sexually and starting social groups of their own like they did in school and so forth I don`t really see the point of being there

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes and thanks alot for the long answer, perhaps god is so big and good that people will behave good, if they start swearing and talking sexually and starting social groups of their own like they did in school and so forth I don`t really see the point of being there

Yeah, that's not Heaven your describing or thinking of..that's earthly and sinful which will have no place in Heaven.

 

[Principium]

Yeah, that's not Heaven your describing or thinking of..that's earthly and sinful which will have no place in Heaven.

Ah yes I forgot, if they start doing this there god will probably say they`re going to hell if they don`t stop, perhaps it`ll work

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, I think so, I know people behave better when they`re happy and get what they want, but I wouldn`t like it

I think you are mistaken about people behaving better when they get what they want. I see no correlation between the two things nor do I see any correlation between being happy and getting what one wants. That being the case, I expect that should you find yourself not getting what you want in a heaven perhaps you might also find yourself happy.

 

[Principium]

I think you are mistaken about people behaving better when they get what they want. I see no correlation between the two things nor do I see any correlation between being happy and getting what one wants. That being the case, I expect that should you find yourself not getting what you want in a heaven perhaps you might also find yourself happy.

Yes, let`s hope it`s really paradise after all

 

[Principium]

I think you are mistaken about people behaving better when they get what they want. I see no correlation between the two things nor do I see any correlation between being happy and getting what one wants. That being the case, I expect that should you find yourself not getting what you want in a heaven perhaps you might also find yourself happy.

But actually I think someone is right about one thing though that if you work hard to do good for others you`ll be rewarded with a good feeling and that way get a sort of paradise here on earth also

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, let`s hope it`s really paradise after all

I actually do not care what heaven is. I will be content with whatever happens. Now is the only time I am able to influence at all.

 

[Principium]

I actually do not care what heaven is. I will be content with whatever happens. Now is the only time I am able to influence at all.

Yes, I`m hoping everything will be good also