Is there separate heavens?

[Principium]

In the Revelation of St. John the heavenly/new Jerusalem is described as being a cube, or at least it seems to be. Note, however, that most Christians don't take these sorts of things literally, that is, the language of the Revelation is usually figurative and symbolic. In other words, we don't believe a massive heavenly cube is going to literally float down from outer space and land upon planet Earth. Rather, the heavenly city is symbolic, not a literal city, and not a literal cube at that.

-CryptoLutheran

good to hear that

 

[Principium]

Most Christians are fine with with the fact that the Bible often employs language limited by the knowledge of the people who wrote it. In other words, we don't expect the Bible to be scientifically accurate, that's not the point of the Bible.

Christians have, for two thousand years, been perfectly fine with this, and we've had no trouble accepting the sphericity of the earth (the earth has been known to be round since the time of Erastothenes, centuries before Christ), virtually every educated Christian since the beginning of the Church has accepted and believed that the earth is round. Belief in a "flat earth" has only been a thing in recent times, it is a purely modern invention.

It's not a controversial subject in Christianity, except in that a tiny handful of Christians have fallen prey to crank conspiracy theories and pseudo-science.

-CryptoLutheran

I understand

 

[eleos1954]

What do you mean with a cube really?

Revelation 21:15 and onward

 

[Principium]

Revelation 21:15 and onward

Interesting read really

 

[grasping the after wind]

But actually I think someone is right about one thing though that if you work hard to do good for others you`ll be rewarded with a good feeling and that way get a sort of paradise here on earth also

Some people get a good feeling by being lazy or from taking from others or by using them for their own satisfaction. If all one wants is a temporary good feeling that is easy to come by.

 

[Principium]

Some people get a good feeling by being lazy or from taking from others or by using them for their own satisfaction. If all one wants is a temporary good feeling that is easy to come by.

Not easy for me since I can`t be mean lol

 

[grasping the after wind]

Not easy for me since I can`t be mean lol

One need not be mean to find a way to get a temporary good feeling. Many people achieve that feeling by virtue signaling.

 

[Principium]

One need not be mean to find a way to get a temporary good feeling. Many people achieve that feeling by virtue signaling.

yes guess you`r right

 

[Principium]

One need not be mean to find a way to get a temporary good feeling. Many people achieve that feeling by virtue signaling.

i always feel bad in my country

 

[Principium]

Revelation 21:15 and onward

do you think the reason some cars can feel aliave sometimes is because energy itself is living and its not really energy ether its life we just say its energy so the car is really being living a little since we shaped it into that form

 

[eleos1954]

do you think the reason some cars can feel aliave sometimes is because energy itself is living and its not really energy ether its life we just say its energy so the car is really being living a little since we shaped it into that form

have no idea what you are talking about here

 

[Principium]

have no idea what you are talking about here

that energy itself is a life form?

 

[eleos1954]

that energy itself is a life form?

no energy itself is not a life form

 

[Principium]

no energy itself is not a life form

Okay perhaps not after all

 

[Ozarks Prodigal]

I respect your point of view. However, I disagree. -> I don't want to turn this thread into a debate but according to Paul, in heaven we will have spiritual bodies and that's why marriage won't exist anymore, for instance. And according to the Bible, there will be a new earth.

1 Corinthians 15:50 and 1 Corinthians 15:35-50 in general.

Anyway, I believe that the end-times matters are all unknowns to us. The book of Revelations is full of symbols and I'm not interested in deciphering it for now. We have a lot of issues to deal with in our current times so let us focus on the present time whenever we can. <3

I was wondering when the subject of the new earth and the Kingdom of Heaven versus Heaven would enter the picture... it's an area I'm interested in so perhaps someone can bring in some scriptures that apply. For example, when Jesus talks about the angels, Himself and the Father, He mentions them being in Heaven. When He mentions us, He talks about us being in the Kingdom of Heaven. This interests me because it would appear that we will never physically step foot in Heaven but, after the Millennium, the great white throne appears and here's where it gets hazy for me. There's no indication of the location of the throne but Revelation 20 speaks as if the sea and the lake of fire were not far off (this is totally a guess). Immediately thereafter in Revelation 21, John says he saw a new heaven and new earth and new Jerusalem descending from heaven and, very shortly, a voice from from the throne saying that God is among men and "He will dwell among them".

All of this makes it appear to me that we, assuming that one doesn't end up in the lake of fire, will be part of the kingdom of heaven here on earth but as for living in Heaven where the Father and Son reside, I don't see that in scripture. Yes, we will build up treasures in heaven and our names will be recorded in heaven but I fail to find scripture that specifically places us in heaven. Then of course, there's this:

John 3:13 (NASB95)

13“No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

which kind of throws a kink into the thing about Enoch, Moses and Elijah being in heaven as I was taught as a child. Yep, there's this:

Genesis 5:24 (NASB95)

24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

but, took him where? Heaven? That would bump into John 3:13 above in a major way. Then there's Moses and this:

Jude 9 (NASB95)

9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

which always was very hazy to me and created major questions when I was told this meant that Moses was taken to Heaven. But then you might mention Matthew 17 where Jesus, Moses and Elijah appeared to meet on a mountain which suggests that Moses and Elijah are alive. However, there's this verse:

Matthew 17:9 (NASB95)

9As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”

The vision thing makes it very hazy again... and so it goes. Ummmm, almost forgot the scripture that makes things hazy with Elijah being Heaven:

2 Chronicles 21:12–16 (NASB95)

12Then a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet saying, “Thus says the Lord God of your father David, ‘Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father and the ways of Asa king of Judah,

13but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have caused Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot as the house of Ahab played the harlot, and you have also killed your brothers, your own family, who were better than you,

14behold, the Lord is going to strike your people, your sons, your wives and all your possessions with a great calamity;

15and you will suffer severe sickness, a disease of your bowels, until your bowels come out because of the sickness, day by day.’ ”

16Then the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines and the Arabs who bordered the Ethiopians;

I've heard discussions back and forth on the date of this letter but that's a subject for another day which I would also find to be interesting. That one would require some timeline exploration I'm thinking.

This is not a deal breaker subject, and by this I mean having to do with salvation... it's simply something that I find interesting and it's directly linked to what Christ had to say during His teachings. That in itself makes it of great interest to me.

As I've said in my introduction to this forum, I don't argue but I will present scripture against scripture that would appear to prove my point. Am I liable to misunderstand something? You betcha'! As also said in the intro, I'm a Bible student, not a Bible scholar.

I could take this thing further but I'll wait and see what surfaces from someone that's more knowledgeable about the scripture than I am. If I think your quoted scripture applies, fine and dandy. If not, I'll say so but I won't push back, simply state that I disagree. At some point thereafter, I'll either tell you I can see your point or, that we'll have to agree to disagree.

And, actually, I hope you do decide to debate... how else am I going to learn from scripture I hadn't thought of as applying to the situations discussed?

God bless you and yours and, I hope I didn't get too carried away here.

 

[AservantofGodandthelordJC]

Hello again, I was just thinking ... I`m not antisocial or something, but I don`t really want to live with humans in heaven only animals ... what does God do in these situations, is there separate heavens perhap? You could say I will not go to heaven for not loving others enough to want to stay with them forever but I really don`t want to anymore, so what does he to in these situations?

There is only 1 real heaven but there are various fabricated ones which are formed via human belief, like the middle men between human death and God.

For example, real heaven cannot be described with words.

Fake heaven you could say has fluffy clouds and angels floating around and stuff.