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Is the RFID Chip the Mark of the Beast?

Alithis

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Exactly. There is talk in the Bible of "great deception", but it's hardly deceptive for a person to command the world to worship him, like bowing down or taking 666 tattoos.

The deception will be in the Mark. There has also been some talk of people being forced to take it, but that will not be necessary.

If you cannot buy or sell without it, people's own stomachs will cause them to take it. Most people, including most Christians, will not even think of it as a "Mark". As Omena said, they will simply view it as the next step in banking technology.

They make no connection between what Jesus said about working for love vs working for money, and what the Revelation says about buying and selling.

They will deceive themselves.

yup - its a bit extremist ,but in a manner of speaking many people already hold " a form" of the mark of the beast in their hands ..

or that is to say they hold in their hands an object that they are beginning to "think" they cant live without .which in itself is a deception - it is a form of communication, social acceptability and money .. it is a cellphone . ! and as we all know by now, it has indeed become the "next thing in banking technology " ....interesting is it not ?

what raises flags with me is this latest generations attitude of growing dependency on it .. if we are dependent on the world to supply us our basic needs then we are not dependent on God

this means our faith is in the world ( system - spirit of anti-Christ)and a person who already has their dependency on the world ..is , in theory , already submitting to the spirit of this world .. or / already beginning to receive the mark of the beast.

sobering thought isn't it ..............
 
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DennisTate

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? not sure what you are on about there .

are you saying that a christian who is sealed wit the Holy Spirit and lives in a Muslim country .. does not have to worry when some local unjust people come to his door drag him outside and tell him to convert to islam or Die .. that he does not have to worry because he is saved by grace ?

can you show me in the bible where those who were saved by grace were not

imprisoned ,tortured,thrown to lions ,beaten , whipped ,thrust through with spears killed by the sword and generally laid down their life for the Lord Jesus because he first laid down his life for them ?

if folks do not have in their heart .. somewhere, no mater how small, a part of them that is willing to die for the sake of the Gospel and the lord Jesus .. then they need to seriously question their faith.

the Lord Jesus said .. except you take up your cross ( the cross is an instrument of death) and follow me ..... "
and if that means following through troubles then through troubles we shall go. like so many before us have already done


I ran into a fascinating idea several years ago that depending on our situation, a Christian could be considered by Jesus/Yehoshua to be a martyr of sorts, if we lived in a way that was exceptionally selfless and altruistic while attempting to bring people to Him!!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7653651/
Has God called some of us to be poor, sick, no arms or legs and persecuted???



Pastor Rick Joyner:
"He was My knock upon their door"

He then motioned for me to look up at Angelo. When I turned he had descended the steps to his throne and was right in front of me. Opening his arms he gave me a great hug and kissed my forehead like a father. Love poured over me and through me until I felt that it would overload my nervous system. When he finally released me I was staggering as if I were drunk, but it was a wonderful feeling. It was love like I had never felt it.

"He could have imparted that to you on earth," the Lord continued. "He had much to give to My people, but they would not come near him. Even My prophets avoided him. He grew in the faith by buying a Bible and a couple of books that he read over and over. He tried to go to churches but he could not find one that would receive him. If they would have taken him in they would have taken Me in. He was My knock upon their door."

I was learning a new definition of grief. "How did he die?" I asked, remembering that he had been martyred, half expecting that I was somehow even responsible for it.

"He froze to death trying to keep an old wino alive who had passed out in the cold."

As I looked at Angelo I just could not believe how hard my heart was. Even so, I did not understand how this made him a martyr, which I had thought was a title reserved for those who who died because they would not compromise their testimony.

"Lord, I know that he is truly an overcomer," I remarked. "And it is so just for him to be here. But are those who die that way also considered to be martyrs?"
"Angelo was a martyr everyday that he lived. He would only do enough for himself to stay alive, and he gladly sacrificed his life to save a needy friend. As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, even if you give your body to be burned, but do not have love, it counts as nothing. But, when you give yourself with love, it counts for much. Angelo died everyday because he did not live for himself, but for others. While on earth he always considered himself the least of the saints, but he was one of the greatest. As you have already learned, many of those who consider themselves to be the greatest, end up being the least here.
Angelo did not die for a doctrine, or even his testimony, but he did die for Me."

"Lord, please help me to remember this. Please do not let me forget what I am seeing here when I return," I begged.

"If My people would look at others the way I do...

"Wisdom is to see with My eyes, and not to judge by appearances. I showed you Angelo in the vision so that you would recognize him when you passed by him on the street. If you had shared with him the knowledge of his past that I had shown in the vision, he would have given his life to Me then. You could have then discipled this great king, and he would have had a great impact on My church. If My people would look at others the way I do, Angelo and many others like him, would have been recognized. They would have been paraded into the greatest pulpits, and My people would have come from the ends of the earth to sit at their feet, because by doing this, they would have sat at My feet. He would have taught you to love, and how to invest the gifts that I have given you so that you could bear much more fruit."

I was so ashamed that I did not want to even look at the Lord, but finally I turned back to Him as I felt the pain driving me toward self-centeredness again. When I looked at Him I was virtually blinded by His glory. It took a while, but gradually my eyes adjusted so that I could see Him.

"Remember that you are forgiven," He said. "I am not showing you these things to condemn you, but to teach you. Always remember that compassion, will remove the veils from your soul faster than anything else."
 
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candle glow

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a person who already has their dependency on the world ..is , in theory , already submitting to the spirit of this world .. or / already beginning to receive the mark of the bea

I think "beginning to receive the Mark of the Beast" is an interesting description of what is happening. Most of the time it's talked about in fairly black/white terms of either accepting it or not, which I believe is still valid.

But there are many little steps along the way which will help to convince people to take it. The Mark is really just a symbol, after all, of what is already in their hearts anyway. "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also".

I don't think it will be too late for someone to reject the Mark at the last moment, but it will probably be MUCH harder for that person at the time, than it will be for those of us who are actively preparing for such a time by taking the teachings of Jesus seriously, now.
 
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Alithis

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I think "beginning to receive the Mark of the Beast" is an interesting description of what is happening. Most of the time it's talked about in fairly black/white terms of either accepting it or not, which I believe is still valid.

But there are many little steps along the way which will help to convince people to take it. The Mark is really just a symbol, after all, of what is already in their hearts anyway. "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also".

I don't think it will be too late for someone to reject the Mark at the last moment, but it will probably be MUCH harder for that person at the time, than it will be for those of us who are actively preparing for such a time by taking the teachings of Jesus seriously, now.

there is NOTHING in this post that I cannot agree with :thumbsup::thumbsup: word for word i could have posted it myself lol .praise God
 
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Omena

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One interesting thing that I've often thought about relates to something Jesus said in Mark.

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (Mark 9:43)

There will probably be people who accept the mark of the beast, and later on realize that they've made a big mistake. Do people think it's possible to do something so radical as to cut off one's hand in order to remove the mark of the beast? Certainly it would show a lot of faith and dedication on the part of the person who accepted the mark. I would like to think that this form of repentance is acceptable to God, even though there is a lot of warning in the Revelation about the consequences of taking the mark. Thoughts?
 
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Alithis

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One interesting thing that I've often thought about relates to something Jesus said in Mark.

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (Mark 9:43)

There will probably be people who accept the mark of the beast, and later on realize that they've made a big mistake. Do people think it's possible to do something so radical as to cut off one's hand in order to remove the mark of the beast? Certainly it would show a lot of faith and dedication on the part of the person who accepted the mark. I would like to think that this form of repentance is acceptable to God, even though there is a lot of warning in the Revelation about the consequences of taking the mark. Thoughts?


...the thought .. i know right ..
I have wondered the same thing at times ..is it related to this time ,is it a parable ,a teaching of attitude or is it an actual act he is advising .
i sometimes wondered of the scenario ..what if you were held down and given the mark by force .. whether a technological mark or a tattooed mark, .but it was done against your will.....
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I'm sorry but I simply can not agree with the idea that Christians will somehow be duped into taking the "Mark" without knowing it is in fact so. The Word of God says very plainly that those who take the Mark are shut off forever from eternal life, they have made the decision in their hearts to take it knowing what it is. No questions no doubts. The passage about the elect being deceived is not even in reference to the Mark, but instead in reference to the false prophets and false signs being done that would deceive many from Christ. But notice in that verse, Matthew 24:24, Jesus doesn't say the elect will be deceived, He says if it were possible for them to be deceived, but it ISN'T because why? The Holy Spirit lives within us and will tell us right from wrong as long as we listen to His voice. Back to the Mark, Revelation 13:16-17, 14:9, 11, 15:2, 16:2, 19:20, 20:4 are the only places in scripture that speak of the mark and what do they say?

Rev 13:16-17- If any refuses the Mark thy will not be able to buy or sell
Rev 14:9-11- those who take the mark will suffer God's eternal wrath in hell
Rev 15:2- those who refuse the mark will stand before God praising Him in Heaven
Rev 16:2- The 1st bowl of wrath is poured upon those with the mark
Rev 19:20- those who receive the mark will be deceived by the false prophet of the AntiChrist; hmmm, interesting Jesus said that very thing in Matt 24:24 only in opposite terms, that only the elect would not be deceived by false prophets. Once again how is that? Because we have the Holy Spirit as our Guide, He will reveal these things to those who wait and look for them.
Rev 20:4- Those who refuse the mark will take part in the resurrection at Jesus' return to rule the Earth with Him.

So what does all that mean? It means that the mark will not be some sneaky stealthy thing where you just wake up one day and go "Oh my goodness i have the mark on my hand!" No, you will know what it is when it arrives and each man, woman, boy, and girl, will have to make the decision for themselves to accept it or not. It will forever polarize good and evil, for once a person takes the Mark there is no more hope for that person.
 
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Alithis

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I'm sorry but I simply can not agree with the idea that Christians will somehow be duped into taking the "Mark" without knowing it is in fact so. The Word of God says very plainly that those who take the Mark are shut off forever from eternal life, they have made the decision in their hearts to take it knowing what it is. No questions no doubts. The passage about the elect being deceived is not even in reference to the Mark, but instead in reference to the false prophets and false signs being done that would deceive many from Christ. But notice in that verse, Matthew 24:24, Jesus doesn't say the elect will be deceived, He says if it were possible for them to be deceived, but it ISN'T because why? The Holy Spirit lives within us and will tell us right from wrong as long as we listen to His voice. Back to the Mark, Revelation 13:16-17, 14:9, 11, 15:2, 16:2, 19:20, 20:4 are the only places in scripture that speak of the mark and what do they say?

Rev 13:16-17- If any refuses the Mark thy will not be able to buy or sell
Rev 14:9-11- those who take the mark will suffer God's eternal wrath in hell
Rev 15:2- those who refuse the mark will stand before God praising Him in Heaven
Rev 16:2- The 1st bowl of wrath is poured upon those with the mark
Rev 19:20- those who receive the mark will be deceived by the false prophet of the AntiChrist; hmmm, interesting Jesus said that very thing in Matt 24:24 only in opposite terms, that only the elect would not be deceived by false prophets. Once again how is that? Because we have the Holy Spirit as our Guide, He will reveal these things to those who wait and look for them.
Rev 20:4- Those who refuse the mark will take part in the resurrection at Jesus' return to rule the Earth with Him.

So what does all that mean? It means that the mark will not be some sneaky stealthy thing where you just wake up one day and go "Oh my goodness i have the mark on my hand!" No, you will know what it is when it arrives and each man, woman, boy, and girl, will have to make the decision for themselves to accept it or not. It will forever polarize good and evil, for once a person takes the Mark there is no more hope for that person.

no i agree .. i dont think it wil be a case of being duped ..i agree that wont be possible -the scripture says that IF it were possible the deception will catch out even the elite .. but the
'if" is clear :)

but i do consider that this is to be a global thing ... sure going on the scriptures there may only be a third of the present earths population left with all the troubles coming ( probably even nuke war ..i dont know )
..this new angle on the topic is just intriguing -- what "if" a person was held down by force and had a mark (whatever form it may be ) put on them ... would the scripture ..-"if your right hand offends you , cut it off ".. suddenly make a whole lot of sense ..
. i don't think any one is wishing to make this a doctrine haha ... just surmising
 
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Omena

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I understand what you're getting at michael, it's a hypothetical thing. I personally think that, overall, if something like that happened, God would know that we weren't choosing the mark, and so He would not hold it against us. But I think what WOULD matter would be what we did after that. Would we just say oh well, and go and live a "happy" life in the beast system? Or would we actively seek God's counsel on what to do to rid ourselves from the curse? And what if God did lead us to follow that teaching from Jesus about cutting off our hand? Would fear stop us? Because if it did, we might be considered guilty of fearing (or worshiping) satan rather than God. God might even allow us to be forcefully given the mark in order to test our faith.

Of course this is all just hypothetically speaking, as I don't think there would be a motive for the agents of the anti-Christ to forcefully give out the mark.
 
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RDKirk

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I'm sorry but I simply can not agree with the idea that Christians will somehow be duped into taking the "Mark" without knowing it is in fact so. The Word of God says very plainly that those who take the Mark are shut off forever from eternal life, they have made the decision in their hearts to take it knowing what it is. No questions no doubts.

The passage about the elect being deceived is not even in reference to the Mark, but instead in reference to the false prophets and false signs being done that would deceive many from Christ. But notice in that verse, Matthew 24:24, Jesus doesn't say the elect will be deceived, He says if it were possible for them to be deceived, but it ISN'T because why? The Holy Spirit lives within us and will tell us right from wrong as long as we listen to His voice.

I tried to say this earlier. It's not going to take a whole lot of clever scripture interpretation. It's not even going to take asking the question on an online forum.

For Jesus to state that "the elect" will not be deceived, He's talking about all the elect, including the prostitute that got saved just the night before and knows no more scripture than Romans 8:1. Even she will not be deceived. That can only happen through the voice of the Holy Spirit.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I tried to say this earlier. It's not going to take a whole lot of clever scripture interpretation. It's not even going to take asking the question on an online forum.

For Jesus to state that "the elect" will not be deceived, He's talking about all the elect, including the prostitute that got saved just the night before and knows no more scripture than Romans 8:1. Even she will not be deceived. That can only happen through the voice of the Holy Spirit.

Amen! :clap::bow:
 
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Lilly Owl

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I'm sure you've heard about these chips, they go in your dominant hand or your forehead (as said in the bible).

What are your thoughts? I've talked to a few pastors who say it undoubtedly is, due to its tracking power and other vile things that it is capable of.

It's entirely possible that the chips that are in cell phones, certain credit cards, etc... could qualify as the mark of the beast.

Or it could have been established long ago with the inception of the social security number.
Necessary to get a job, credit, bank account, drivers license, loans. And of course it registered you as an indentured servant when you pay income tax. Paying the government for the right to make a living legally.
 
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like eagleswings

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when it comes to it, people will do anything for money. if you got family to feed,medicine,medical.ect, people will take the mark,regardless of the consequences. then again if you dont believe,there is no consequence.becuase they will be deluded.

i recon they will have control over your water supply,gas,electric. implementing smart meters,there already fitting them here.,that can be turned off remotely, the police are requesting permission to use air drones,to police the skys. theres vans,whith cctv on the top roof , that travel around towns & citys. at the moment its used to catch motorists illegal parking at the moment. but bet you it be used for policing.
all the small shops,are closing down,only the big major supermarkets will survive,which will have the tech to moniter and police it.
it wont be long before you cant buy or sell whithout having access to internet
i think its sweden or some were,there now a cashless society.
there will be a one faith ,that units all faiths, as they will agree they believe the same god. if you dont agree or disagree,you be classed as an extremist, and a threat to society.
 
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Alithis

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I understand what you're getting at michael, it's a hypothetical thing. I personally think that, overall, if something like that happened, God would know that we weren't choosing the mark, and so He would not hold it against us. But I think what WOULD matter would be what we did after that. Would we just say oh well, and go and live a "happy" life in the beast system? Or would we actively seek God's counsel on what to do to rid ourselves from the curse? And what if God did lead us to follow that teaching from Jesus about cutting off our hand? Would fear stop us? Because if it did, we might be considered guilty of fearing (or worshiping) satan rather than God. God might even allow us to be forcefully given the mark in order to test our faith.

Of course this is all just hypothetically speaking, as I don't think there would be a motive for the agents of the anti-Christ to forcefully give out the mark.

hmmm im not so sure ... the wording is strong - extremist even , it is Islamic in its nature one might say .. it ( the mark /beast) institutes the ultimatum of,submit - OR DIE.

any one who refuses it is beheaded ... and - they loved not their lives even unto death

these two absolute extremes are clearly written and neither of them are new.
refer the book of martyrs
click here - Fox's Book of Martyrs
 
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RDKirk

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The problem with all these ideas is that they don't allow for the return of Christ this afternoon. They all presume it's going to be some time in the future--because that stuff depending on tremendous global economic change cannot happen in China, India, or Africa within the next year or even this decade.

But scripture tells us plainly that Christ could return at any moment...maybe by lunchtime today. Any prediction that does not allow for the immediate return of Christ cannot be accurate.

So you have to conjure up a whole eschatological scheme to work around that, working within one of the various millennalist, amillennialist, preterist theories, and it must be consistent not only in its eschatology but also with the rest of scriptural principles of Reform Theology versus Arminianism, et cetera.

Every one of these I see is always a hodgepodgey hash of competing eschatological and soteriological concepts that can't possible reside together in the same theory.
 
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The problem with all these ideas is that they don't allow for the return of Christ this afternoon.

But scripture tells us plainly that Christ could return at any moment...
What scripture tells us is HIGHLY debated!

Are you saying there's no room for the mark of the beast in pre-trib theology? IE, couldn't it be for those left behind?

Pets are routinely RFID tagged. I'm pretty sure you could tag everyone in the world in fairly short order. It'd be a 15 minute procedure at the doctor's office. Heck, they might soon be small enough to place with a syringe and it'd be as easy as getting a flu shot.

Peace

-CS
 
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ByTheSpirit

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What scripture tells us is HIGHLY debated!

Are you saying there's no room for the mark of the beast in pre-trib theology? IE, couldn't it be for those left behind?

Soldiers and pets are routinely RFID tagged. I'm pretty sure you could tag everyone in the world in fairly short order. It'd be a 15 minute procedure at the doctor's office. Heck, they might soon be small enough to place with a syringe and it'd be as easy as getting a flu shot.

Peace

-CS

I dont know where you get your info from, but if you are referring to US Soldiers being RFID'd then you are wrong. I've been serving for 11 years and have yet to even hear of RFID tracking for Soldiers.

The whole presumption of Christ's return at any moment is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Jesus gave us the time when He would return (Matt 24:29-31) AFTER THE TRIBULATION. Those who infer otherwise only do so at the behest of man made doctrine. Of course pretribbers think His return is at any moment, but the quetion then becomes why do they even worry about the mark anyway if it will not affect them?
 
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I dont know where you get your info from, but if you are referring to US Soldiers being RFID'd then you are wrong.
Thanks for the correction. There was a proposal in congress to tag soldiers and I got it in my head it was a done deal. I usually check my facts but didn't in this case. Thanks for the correction.

I've read pre trib and post trib arguments and personally think the post-tribbers have a stronger case. But many of the prophetic texts are full of images prosaic descriptions. I personally don't see a 100% definitive case either way and I really don't see that it matters. If Jesus returns pre-trib is he going to reject post-trib believers just because they're surprised he got here so soon? IMO, the answer is, of course not!

Peace,

-CS
 
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