IS THE LORD'S DAY REALLY SUNDAY OR GOD'S SABBATH DAY?

[Danthemailman]

Not everyday is BELSSED, SANCTIFIED AND MADE A HOLY DAY *GENESIS 2:1-3 that God commands us in the 4th commandment not to do any work on. *EXODUS 20:8-11

God bless.

The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.

*Now if every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? *Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? *Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? *Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. *Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?

Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17). Are you an Israelite under the law in the OT?

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day” (Deuteronomy 5:15).

*Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church commanded to keep the weekly Sabbath day and to the contrary we find -- (Colossians 2:16-17)

 

[thesunisout]

Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only and friendly christian discussion.

We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find any scripture support for this teaching in any of God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at the scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem as your reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

.............

ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

..................

What are your thoughts?

Friendly Christian discussion only please. (It is ok to agree to disagree)

God bless.

The Lords day and the Sabbath are two different days. The Lords day is on Sunday and the Sabbath is on Saturday.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Brother Kenny, I am only showing you the same thing that I already had shown you that you said was not there. Anyhow as you can see it answered your questions and it is good that you agree and can see it now. You were making the claim that I had not answered your question when in your own words now you can see that it was answered all along. Perhaps you just did not see it.

It's good that I agreed?? And no that is not at all what you showed me.

I agreed with nothing, and allow me to show you how you have resorted to flat out not telling the truth, and remember lying is one of the 10 commandments, and one of those sins also in the lists that I mentioned that will keep us from the Kingdom of God. Then recall you said you don't sin, which I'll now prove is another untruth. And I point that out for your own good, repent and stop doing it.

You now say I have seen the term "Israel" there and it was there all along, but here is what was said:

LoveGodsWord said: ↑
Gentile believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:16-23.

And I said:

The term "Isreal" is not even mentioned in that scripture. Is that another unfounded conclusion you all created? If not, how do you conclude that from that scripture.

Now, look at the scripture you were talking about when making the claim (ROMANS 11:16-23.) and show me where it even mentions Isreal? What you just did was grab other scripture with the term "Israel" in it, and try to slip one by me/us...shame on you. It is not there now, it never was and never will be in spite of your efforts.

Once again, this is how SDA/you reach the conclusions you do, you slip things in there that are not fact. You create your own truth by twisting scripture. So, yeah, you have cited scripture, perverted scripture. In itself that one thing isn't that big a deal, but my point is that is exactly how you all work. If you cannot get the Bible to say what you want it too, you will make it say what you want it too by resorting to trickery.

Your first post does not answer the question where in God's WORD does it say God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED

Now I'm being accused of saying the command was abolished? A question follows this so please don't skip it. Show me where I even indicated it was abolished? Have I not more than indicated a few times it was still in affect for Israelite's?

How can it be abolished for Gentiles when it never was meant for Gentiles. Now if you have proven at some point it was for Gentiles, please stop telling us you did so in this or that scripture, and cite the exact scripture and tell us "exactly" how it shows Gentiles are Israelite's as you claim. Seems to me a simple request and simple for you to show me if you are correct that is a fact. If you cannot show us precisely, then it's not there. Again, "Go look at this verse" does nothing, you have to show us exactly where that or any other verse says what you claim it does, something you have fallen terribly short of doing on several occasions.

 

[DamianWarS]

Sabbath never refers to Sunday. The context of Acts 20:7 supports this. If as you claim that this verse references the first day of the week meaning Sunday, then Sunday this morning gathering to break bread ends up being a marathon service. Paul preached until midnight so can you imagine how long they met if the church gathered to meet on Sunday as you claim. Instead the context makes more sense if the church met on Saturday evening sabbath as was their usual custom.
http://www.ourancientpaths.org/single-post/2016/12/28/A-Long-Winded-Preacher-and-Motzaei-Shabbat

Saturday evening is no longer sabbath. Days are sundown, to sundown. There may be a mix of cultures here which can lead to confusion but "one sabbath" is representative of the first day of the week. as to the exact time it may be a bit of a question as the text cites a night sermon which in Jewish time would mean a new day has already started but then talks about a departure the next day as to the reason why Paul preached so late which suggests a more western style of counting days. If one sabbath is the first day of the week as an overwhelming amount of scholars agree to then it would seem it is counting days as a more western style, even if they use a jewish counting system superimposed over it. So Paul is preaching Sunday evening and leaving Monday.

 

[Fidelibus]

Please by all means brother, show from the scriptures that ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th commandment?

Could you show using Scripture only, the book, chapter and verse where the ten Commandments are actually numbered in the Bible?

 

[Righttruth]

Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only and friendly christian discussion.

We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find any scripture support for this teaching in any of God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at the scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem as your reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

.............

Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

.............

ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

.................

SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

..................

What are your thoughts?

Friendly Christian discussion only please. (It is ok to agree to disagree)

God bless.

Any day after six days of regular work is a day of Sabbath day of rest. It could be Friday for Christians who are working in Muslim countries.

 

[GingerBeer]

Hope this helps.

Nope, it didn't help. One word is a verb (rest ָשַׁבת) and the other is a noun (ַָשָׁבּת) derived from the verb (the Sabbath). The noun refers to rest and is applied to the day of rest that Jews had once every seven days. None of this is information that was not already known by me and you. I do not see how you manage to make it magically prove that the Sabbath (24 hour day repeated every seven 24 hour days) is eternal.

There is an eternal rest laid up for God's people. That is the rest described in Hebrews 3:7-4:13. It's a rest rather than the Sabbath but it does get called a "Sabbath rest" (Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God; ). The promised rest isn't a promised Sabbath day - that would be one day in seven. The rest is a state that endures for age after age - from the time the promise of rest was first given by God until the time when it is fulfilled in Christ - and waits for the people of God.

 

[GingerBeer]

Could you show using Scripture only, the book, chapter and verse where the ten Commandments are actually numbered in the Bible?

They aren't numbered in the scriptures. There is an interesting list that is called ten commandments given in the books of Moses but it is not the ten that we're used to reading.

Exodus 34:10-28

10 Then God said, "Behold, I am going to make a covenant. Before all your people I will perform miracles which have not been produced in all the earth nor among any of the nations; and all the people among whom you live will see the working of the LORD, for it is a fearful thing that I am going to perform with you.

11 "Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day: behold, I am going to drive out the Amorite before you, and the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite.

12 "Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst.

13 "But rather, you are to tear down their altars and smash their sacred pillars and cut down their Asherim

14 --for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God--

15 otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice,

16 and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods.

17 "You shall make for yourself no molten gods.

18 "You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt.

19 "The first offspring from every womb belongs to Me, and all your male livestock, the first offspring from cattle and sheep.

20 "You shall redeem with a lamb the first offspring from a donkey; and if you do not redeem it, then you shall break its neck. You shall redeem all the firstborn of your sons. None shall appear before Me empty-handed.

21 "You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during plowing time and harvest you shall rest.

22 "You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.

23 "Three times a year all your males are to appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.

24 "For I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders, and no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD your God.

25 "You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread, nor is the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover to be left over until morning.

26 "You shall bring the very first of the first fruits of your soil into the house of the LORD your God. "You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk."

27 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

​

 

[Danthemailman]

Nope, it didn't help. One word is a verb (rest ָשַׁבת) and the other is a noun (ַָשָׁבּת) derived from the verb (the Sabbath). The noun refers to rest and is applied to the day of rest that Jews had once every seven days. None of this is information that was not already known by me and you. I do not see how you manage to make it magically prove that the Sabbath (24 hour day repeated ever seven 24 hour days) is eternal.

There is an eternal rest laid up for God's people. That is the rest described in Hebrews 3:7-4:13. It's a rest rather than the Sabbath but it does get called a "Sabbath rest" (Hebrews 4:9 So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. The promised rest isn't a promised Sabbath day - that would be one day in seven. The rest is a state that endures for age after age - from the time the promise of rest was first given by God until the time when it is fulfilled in Christ - and waits for the people of God.

Amen! Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the NT.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" shows the Sabbatarian argument to be wrong:

SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Hebrews 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

 

[parousia70]

Why? Are you not replacing one for the other?

Nope. You should educate yourself.
My Church Observes EVERY Sabbath day on Saturday.
EVERY one, and Has been doing so for Millennia.
Like the apostles, we have simply added the celebration of our Lord's resurrection on Sunday.

If you would Simply add Sunday Observance and celebration of our Lord's rising, in addition to your Saturday Sabbath observance (Like we do) all this self-imposed hullabaloo you are suffering from would simply vanish.

It is a teaching and traditions of men that leads many to break the commandments of God. JESUS says those that follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Who should we believe the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God *ACTS 5:29; ROMANS 3:4? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Cor 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thess 1:15; 1 Cor 11:2).

"Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"

The traditions were known by the real, historical practice of the first Christians everywhere---which was Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day. This day, which was always distinct from the Mosaic Sabbath, was the premier day of Christianity, for Christ's Resurrection was the premier day of all history.

Some on this forum have tried to discount apostolic tradition, arguing that the way to know the truth is for everyone to read their bibles for themselves. And these people are quite vocal about it. But their argument falls apart once we realize that no one could read written language until modern times, nor were books able to be mass produced. Jesus used a different method of passing on his teaching. If it wasn't written language, then what other channel of communication was selected?

Jesus Christ and the apostles instituted a system for preserving and passing on His truth that didn't use books or literacy. And Jesus knew what he was doing.

So, again, since we know it wasn't books or Literacy, what channel of communication do you believe Jesus used to preserve and pass on his truth to the human race?

 

[GingerBeer]

Scripture mentions two Sunday gatherings, both at 1 Cor 16:1-2, and in the breaking of bread on Sunday (Acts 20:7). This, combined with the universal practice of Sunday observance of the Lord's Resurrection Day among the earliest Christians, proves what was the apostolic tradition as taught by the apostles personally to their churches (2 Thess 1:15; 1 Cor 11:2).

"Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."

"I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you"

Seventh day people will steadfastly refuse to see Sunday as anything but a nasty Roman imposition because it is a fundamental part of their religion. As polite and informative as any Sunday proponent may be they will be met with opposition by Seventh Day people. There's a whole religious way of life at stake for the Seventh Day observers. That's how I see it. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that the discussion always goes the way I've described.

 

[bling]

Hi All,

This thread is for scripture only and friendly christian discussion.

We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find any scripture support for this teaching in any of God's WORD.

Let's start by looking at the scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem as your reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying.

.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
A. MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

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Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

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HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

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ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

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SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

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God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

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What are your thoughts?

Friendly Christian discussion only please. (It is ok to agree to disagree)

God bless.

When in Rev. 1:10 where ἡμέρᾳ is possessed by Deity (emperor might be a better translation than "Lord") it seems more like to be the English word "Court". with "on" being "in" (the same Greek word).

day, ἡμέρᾳ ēmera 2250 day
a prim. word
always* (1), court (1), daily* (10), day (207), day's (1), day...another (1), daybreak (1), days (148), daytime (2), midday* (1), time (12), years (4).
in
g1722
ἐν en


day,

g2250

ἡμέρα hēmera

AV — in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62, through 39, misc 264

Paul in 1 Cor 4:3 human court


First off if you want to learn you need to study and not be handed “answers” to agree with or disagree with.

The Greek word for “in” ἐν en is the same word for on in Rev. 1:10 as you might expect. The context will tell us which is the most likely word to use.

The Greek word in this case for “day” ἡμέρα hēmera is also the same word for “court” as used by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:3 the other time John is translated court like in Rev. 11:2 it is the outer court not meaning a place of judgment.

So would the alternative definitions for these words work at least just as will and maybe better?

“I was in the Spirit in the Lord’s court…”

Is John in the Lord’s judgment court?

Why would John even need to say what “day” it was? Is there any significance to this being a Sunday?

Does it help us to know where John is, so is that significant?

Everyday is the Lord's 24 hours.

 

[Monna]

God has indeed made everyday for us but the discussion here in the OP is over REVELATION 1:10. Did you have a chance to read it? We should rejoice and worship God EVERYDAY. However this is not the problem. God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is a day that God has BLESSED, SANCTIFIED and MADE A HOLY DAY *GENESIS 2:1-3.

Thanks LoveGodsWord. Yes I have taken the time to read it. In NOT ONE of the 59 different versions of the Bible that BibleGateway provides, is Yom HaAdon (as the Orthodox Jewish Bible puts it) translated as "the Sabbath." If John had meant the Sabbath, why did he not use it?

The seventh day of every week is not the only day of rest that is a "sabbath" in the OT. There are seven other sabbaths in the year that are celebrated. I hope all literalists celebrate these too, and indeed the seventh year, all of which is to be regarded as a sabbath. I suspect that there aren't many farmers on CFs but even for those that are not, this sabbath year also had/has laws regulating the sale, consumption and disposal of the produce of that sabbath year. (Deut.15) Moreover, at the end of that sabbath year all debts were to be remitted (except for foreigners: if you are not Jewish you may argue that you are not bound by this particular law - if that's your reasoning, then logic should tell you that you are not subject to the rest of the Jewish rules on the Sabbath either).

When Jesus "fulfilled" the law he always went beyond its letter to its intent. "You have heard it said, 'do not commit murder,' but I say to you 'whoever hates his brother has already committed murder in his heart.'" And so, the extension of the sabbath, as a day of worship to the Lord - the LORD'S day - to EVERY DAY is not at all out of line. We rest daily and totally in the work that Jesus himself said was "finished." We are to offer our bodies daily as a sacrifice to God, and not restrict our worship to "special" days. Obviously, if I treat every day as a sabbath, I will include both the first and the seventh days, an every other one in between. I stand by my interpretation that today "is the day the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it." Today and everyday is the Lord's day.

This is a freedom I have found in Jesus Christ my Lord. If you or anyone else wish to hold to "the observance of days," I will not condemn you - that is neither my right, nor my wish. But by the same token I will not bow to another person's infringement of my freedom in Christ Jesus. "If the Son shall set you free, you shall be free indeed."

I am free to rest in Him and worship Him seven days a week, every week, and see every day as a holy day set aside for Him.

 

[Danthemailman]

Thanks LoveGodsWord. Yes I have taken the time to read it. In NOT ONE of the 59 different versions of the Bible that BibleGateway provides, is Yom HaAdon (as the Orthodox Jewish Bible puts it) translated as "the Sabbath." If John had meant the Sabbath, why did he not use it?

The seventh day of every week is not the only day of rest that is a "sabbath" in the OT. There are seven other sabbaths in the year that are celebrated. I hope all literalists celebrate these too, and indeed the seventh year, all of which is to be regarded as a sabbath. I suspect that there aren't many farmers on CFs but even for those that are not, this sabbath year also had/has laws regulating the sale, consumption and disposal of the produce of that sabbath year. (Deut.15) Moreover, at the end of that sabbath year all debts were to be remitted (except for foreigners: if you are not Jewish you may argue that you are not bound by this particular law - if that's your reasoning, then logic should tell you that you are not subject to the rest of the Jewish rules on the Sabbath either).

When Jesus "fulfilled" the law he always went beyond its letter to its intent. "You have heard it said, 'do not commit murder,' but I say to you 'whoever hates his brother has already committed murder in his heart.'" And so, the extension of the sabbath, as a day of worship to the Lord - the LORD'S day - to EVERY DAY is not at all out of line. We rest daily and totally in the work that Jesus himself said was "finished." We are to offer our bodies daily as a sacrifice to God, and not restrict our worship to "special" days. Obviously, if I treat every day as a sabbath, I will include both the first and the seventh days, an every other one in between. I stand by my interpretation that today "is the day the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it." Today and everyday is the Lord's day.

This is a freedom I have found in Jesus Christ my Lord. If you or anyone else wish to hold to "the observance of days," I will not condemn you - that is neither my right, nor my wish. But by the same token I will not bow to another person's infringement of my freedom in Christ Jesus. "If the Son shall set you free, you shall be free indeed."

I am free to rest in Him and worship Him seven days a week, every week, and see every day as a holy day set aside for Him.

You made some very good points Monna!

Sabbatarians have asked for a text in the Bible that shows worship on Sunday. Here it is below:

LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Notice verse 11: "And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it." The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.

Read on and notice in Leviticus 23:15 - You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord. This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.

Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.

If Sabbatarians think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Leviticus 23:1-4). It's called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were sanctified along with Saturday.

 

[NeedyFollower]

No. The Lord’s Day is Sunday.

Well brother ..you are of course correct . The Lord's Day is Sunday . This is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad in it . And brother , you are familiar with Psalms 50:10-12 ...the cattle on a thousand hills are mine ......and God finishes with "for the world is mine and the fullness thereof." ...and from Genesis.... And God called the light day and the darkness night and the evening and the morning were the first day .......And God called the firmament Heaven . And the evening and the morning were the second day ." My hope brother is that you will allow that every day is God's but if not , then who do the other days belong ? Do they not belong to Him who created all things ? Even the day of rest was the Lord's . With this said ...do we love one another has more significance ...otherwise I guess we are clanging cymbals. This was my encouragement to the OP and to myself . ( And Paul makes allowance for this in Roman's 14:5. and 1st Corinthians 13 . ) I believe our enemy would have us fight over the temporal observances . Grace and Peace in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Danthemailman]

Well brother ..you are of course correct . The Lord's Day is Sunday. This is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad in it.

Amen! Psalm 118:22-26 prophecies the first day of the week:

"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone. This is the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it. O Lord, do save, we beseech You; O Lord, we beseech You, do send prosperity! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord; We have blessed you from the house of the Lord."

It's obvious that resurrection day, is the day the Lord made. Sunday (resurrection day) is the day the Lord made. The first day (Sunday) is the Lord's Day!

 

[Alithis]

Hello brother Alithis, thanks for your post but no, I do not seek to encourage you or anyone else here to worship a day but only to worship and follow God through his WORD.

No one has rest in Christ in disobedience and unbelief in his WORD because by doing this they are not following God. This is exactly what HEBREWS 3 teaches.

HEBREWS 3:10-12; 17-19
[10], Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
[11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
[12], Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

[17], But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?
[18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[19], So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

All those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do not enter into God's REST.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSLAMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

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SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

we are to follow the lord Jesus and do as he tells us to do as new creations in him . He has never told me to observe the sabbath . we live In him doing as he says to us .

 

[Monk Brendan]

Someone here, David Something, I think, said that Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.

This is not true.

He simply made Christianity a LEGAL religion.

It was not until Theodosius that Christianity became the state religion.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Amen! Psalm 118:22-26 prophecies the first day of the week:

"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone. This is the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it. O Lord, do save, we beseech You; O Lord, we beseech You, do send prosperity! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord; We have blessed you from the house of the Lord."

It's obvious that resurrection day, is the day the Lord made. Sunday (resurrection day) is the day the Lord made. The first day (Sunday) is the Lord's Day!

Brother ....I do hope you read the rest of the reply to Brother Solomon for Monday is also the Lord's Day ...as is Tuesday . Even the wicked belong to the Lord ....all things were made by Him and without Him was nothing made ...nothing. Every day belongs to Jesus ..But our hope is in Jesus Christ ...not in knowledge for knowledge puffs up but love edifies ...as Paul relates and we know to be true Galatians 6:14 .but God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified unto me and me unto the world . So may I place my salvation in knowing that Sunday is the Lord's Day ? No ..May I place my salvation in knowing that every day is the Lord's ? No ...May I place my salvation in knowing that this debate is most likely a snare of the enemy to stir up debate about things not necessary for salvation ? No ...my hope is in Jesus Christ . I trust yours is as well .

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Monk Brendan.

Someone here, David Something, I think, said that Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.

This is not true, you say?

With the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD, Emperor Theodosius I, made Nicene Christianity the Empire's state religion. (wikipedia)

Why are you at odds with what wikipedia claims?