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Featured IS THE LORD'S DAY REALLY SUNDAY OR GOD'S SABBATH DAY?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Nov 7, 2018.

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  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,

    This thread is for scripture only and friendly christian discussion.

    We would like to show that the "LORD'S DAY" that many proclaim is SUNDAY is a false teaching and you will not find any scripture support for this teaching in any of God's WORD.

    Let's start by looking at the scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

    REVELATIONS 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

    No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

    NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.

    Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?

    If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem as your reading into the scriptures something that it is not saying.

    .............

    Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

    Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?
    A.
    MATTHEW 12:8 [8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

    Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)

    God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!

    There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)

    .............

    Now friend's the SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.

    John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!

    .............

    HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

    SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)



    .............

    ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?

    God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9
    [3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
    [6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

    .................

    SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

    .................

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

    God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

    ..................

    God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)

    ..................

    What are your thoughts?

    Friendly Christian discussion only please
    . (It is ok to agree to disagree)

    God bless.
     
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  2. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think everyone here knows the Biblical sabbath is the 7th day of the week.

    they also know, and you wanted scripture:

    Romans 14:5
    One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
     
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  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    The term "Lord's day" used in Revelation 1:10 is not linked to μία των which is used in the NEW TESTAMENT Greek which means FIRST DAY.

    In Revelations 1:10 "Lords Day κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ does not link to any scripture reference in the NEW TESTAMENT to μιά των σαββάτων (the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK).

    κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

    Your challenge in this OP is to prove that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week and prove it from the scriptures.

    God bless.
     
  4. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    Read the writings of the ECF; they all refer to Sunday as “The Lord’s Day”.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Please by all means brother, show from the scriptures that ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th commandment? ROMANS 14 is talking about days that men esteem over other days in relation to eating and not eating (fasting) connected to days. It is not talking about days that God esteems. Romans 14 does not even mention God's 4th commandment Sabbath.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts however
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    After scripture please brother. Can you show from the scriptures that Sunday is the Lord's Day? Yet the scriptures clearly show that the Sabbath is the Lord's day *MATTHEW 12:8.
     
  7. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    There is no scripture on this issue. However the writings of the Early Church Fathers are held in very high esteem.
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Yet the writings of the Church fathers are not God's WORD and not in the bible for a reason.
     
  9. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    The Didache

    "But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).


    The Letter of Barnabas

    "We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).


    Ignatius of Antioch

    "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).


    Justin Martyr

    "[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

    "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).


    Tertullian

    "[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).



    The Didascalia

    "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).



    Origen

    "Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).



    Victorinus

    "The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).



    Eusebius of Caesarea

    "They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things" (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).

    "[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality" (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).



    Athanasius

    "The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord’s day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord’s day as being the memorial of the new creation" (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).



    Cyril of Jerusalem

    "Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean" (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]).



    Council of Laodicea

    "Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord’s day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians" (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]).



    John Chrysostom

    "[W]hen he [God] said, ‘You shall not kill’ . . . he did not add, ‘because murder is a wicked thing.’ The reason was that conscience had taught this beforehand, and he speaks thus, as to those who know and understand the point. Wherefore when he speaks to us of another commandment, not known to us by the dictate of conscience, he not only prohibits, but adds the reason. When, for instance, he gave commandment concerning the Sabbath— ‘On the seventh day you shall do no work’—he subjoined also the reason for this cessation. What was this? ‘Because on the seventh day God rested from all his works which he had begun to make’ [Ex. 20:10-11]. . . . For what purpose then, I ask, did he add a reason respecting the Sabbath, but did no such thing in regard to murder? Because this commandment was not one of the leading ones. It was not one of those which were accurately defined of our conscience, but a kind of partial and temporary one, and for this reason it was abolished afterward. But those which are necessary and uphold our life are the following: ‘You shall not kill. . . . You shall not commit adultery. . . . You shall not steal.’ On this account he adds no reason in this case, nor enters into any instruction on the matter, but is content with the bare prohibition" (Homilies on the Statutes 12:9 [A.D. 387]).

    "You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul’s words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews?" (Homilies on Galatians 2:17 [A.D. 395]).

    "The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews’ account, forasmuch as the law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn than the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath" (Homilies on Philippians 10 [A.D. 402]).



    The Apostolic Constitutions

    "And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day . . . in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food" (Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60 [A.D. 400]).



    Augustine

    "Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian. . . ." (The Spirit and the Letter 24 [A.D. 412]).
     
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  10. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    But they are men who were taught by the disciples so their words are definitely worthwhile.
     
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Brother these are only writings promoted by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH outside of God's WORD. You have not provided a single scripture to show that the "LORD'S DAY" is Sunday. Yet there is scripture saying that the "LORD'S DAY" is the SABBATH DAY *MATTHEW 12:8
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  12. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And I repeat, but with a version that might be more easily understood by some:

    New Living Translation
    "Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God."

    And what is that special day to worship the lord?

    But we have to have the ability to see the whole bible (a little here and a little there) in order to see the big picture. Nowhere in the new testament where the damnable sins are mentioned does it even hint at not keeping the sabbath as one of them, much less not on the proper day. Put 2 and 2 together.

    Sometimes it's about using our head and not so much seeing what is mentioned in scripture but what is not.

    So, no they are taking in general/trying to make a point, and it's absolutely not just about food as you claim. Seriously, reread it.

    Now, show me scripture that says they are not talking about the commandment?
     
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  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Which disciples were they taught by? During this time the scriptures tell has that many false teachers have gone out into the world as well as the mystery of iniquity had already started working MATTHEW 24:24; 2 THESSALONIANS 2:7-10; MATTHEW 7:15; 10:16; ACTS 20:29
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  14. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    No. Only a few of them are from the RCC the majority of them are ECF writings. Did you actually read what I posted and study it?
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Please by all means brother, show from the scriptures that ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th commandment? ROMANS 14 is talking about days that men esteem over other days in relation to eating and not eating (fasting) connected to days. It is not talking about days that God esteems. Romans 14 does not even mention God's 4th commandment Sabbath.

    Yet we read from the scriptures...

    HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

    God bless..
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I did read what you provided and none of what you provided is God's WORD. You have provided no scripture showing that Sunday is the "LORD'S DAY" Yet the scriptures teach that God's 4th Commandment SABBATH is the LORD'S DAY *MATTHEW 12:8. How should we believe the WORD of GOD or the teachings of men? *MATTHEW 15:3-9
     
  17. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    Matthew 12:8 actually doesn’t call the Sabbath “The Lord’s Day”.
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure brother? Let the scriptures answer the question...

    WHICH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY?

    MATTHEW 12:8[8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

    Yep seems like God's SABBATH DAY is the LORD'S DAY alright.

    God bless
     
  19. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

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    You’re way off in left field. The writings I provided are valuable writings from church history.

    Nowhere in scripture is the sabbath referred to as “The Lord’s Day”.

    The only passage that mentions “The Lord’s Day” is Revelation 1:10.
     
  20. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The point BTW, is, they all love the lord and are trying to please him. As long as we love the Lord/thank him, and are trying to please him, he knows that and is not going to hold them to a particular day or type of food they eat.

    You wanted scripture, but if you refuse to see what is in the scripture, that's on you.

    The KJV has now explained it to you, as has the NLT, and myself, and it clearly means what it means and you state it's just about food. Did you not even see the part about worshiping? Or get the fact it was all about trying to please God and not so much about getting things right to the letter of the law?
     
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