Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[AV1611VET]

As the Venerable Bede explained it...

Interesting that I'll acknowledge the Passover and some Feast of Ishtar, but you can't acknowledge Easter.

That's too bad, but it shows how academia will not compromise with the Bible, despite wanting Christians to compromise with them.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Interesting that I'll acknowledge the Passover and some Feast of Ishtar, but you can't acknowledge Easter.

That's too bad, but it shows how academia will not compromise with the Bible, despite wanting Christians to compromise with them.

I'm not sure what I'm not acknowledging. I think some of the disconnect is your English-only hobbyhorse.

In the original Greek it's pascha/πάσχα, i.e. Passover.

I have no problem acknowledging that the KJV (and modern English speakers) say "Easter", because in the meantime (as Bede explained), the English people replaced the name of the Paschal time with Easter, from the pagan Eostermonath, "calling the joys of the new rite by the time honored name of the old observance".

 

[renniks]

Personally offensive posts are not helpful. If you cannot address the point being made you're better off saying nothing.

I'm still trying to understand why you find eternity scary. You really haven't made that point that I've seen.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not sure what I'm not acknowledging. I think some of the disconnect is your English-only hobbyhorse.

In the original Greek it's pascha/πάσχα, i.e. Passover.

I have no problem acknowledging that the KJV (and modern English speakers) say "Easter", because in the meantime (as Bede explained), the English people replaced the name of the Paschal time with Easter, from the pagan Eostermonath, "calling the joys of the new rite by the time honored name of the old observance".

Good for the English people.

Luke ... a Greek ... wrote the book of Acts to a Roman named Theophilus.

And when Luke wrote Acts 12:4, do you really expect me to believe he had the Passover or some pagan feast in mind?

That would be an affront to those Christians celebrating the day of Christ's resurrection from the dead.

The Passover commemorates the Exodus ... not Christ's resurrection.

 

[SelfSim]

I'm still trying to understand why you find eternity scary. You really haven't made that point that I've seen.

The point was made that the lack of a change of state, (ie: 'endless/eternal' anything), means that there is no other state to compare it with .. therefore 'joy' ceases to hold any distinct meaning.
An existence where there are no other emotions to contrast this with, is like being deprived of all personal freedoms of choice (because there is no other state to choose from) .. aka: 'horrific'.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And when Luke wrote Acts 12:4, do you really expect me to believe he had the Passover or some pagan feast in mind?

He certainly didn't have Eostre in mind. But given the context -- talking about when Herod was going to time a criminal procedure -- saying Passover makes sense as that would have been a notable time in that time and place. You don't have to be Christian to say, "The insurrection at the Capitol happened a few weeks after Christmas".

That would be an affront to those Christians celebrating the day of Christ's resurrection from the dead.

The verse is not about a celebration, but marking when something happened.

 

[AV1611VET]

He certainly didn't have Eostre in mind. But given the context -- talking about when Herod was going to time a criminal procedure -- saying Passover makes sense as that would have been a notable time in that time and place.

So what are you saying it should say?

"Passover"?

The word "Passover" occurs some fifty times in the New Testament.

So why did God, who superintended the translation of the King James Bible, have them write "Easter"?

 

[essentialsaltes]

So what are you saying it should say?

"Passover"?

I think that would be the better, and obviously more consistent, translation. But it hardly matters.

So why did God, who superintended the translation of the King James Bible, have them write "Easter"?

He wanted to imply that Herod was a Christian? He was on vacation that day? The new guy on the team wrote it, and He felt bad about pointing out a trivial error and held his tongue?

 

[AV1611VET]

He wanted to imply that Herod was a Christian? He was on vacation that day? The new guy on the team wrote it, and He felt bad about pointing out a trivial error and held his tongue?

Bible says it, that settles it.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I'm still trying to understand why you find eternity scary. You really haven't made that point that I've seen.

Why don't you try imagining eternity with no variety, no purpose, no end in sight. Then be honest with yourself - does that sound like fun? You would be horrified by the thought of even a few years in such a state. Eternity? That's not a pleasant thought.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Bible says it, that settles it.

Humans wrote it. Post hoc naming does not indicate the original meaning. The word pascha is translated "passover" in every other instance. Easter was not a celebration when Luke wrote Acts, but it was when humans translated to KJV.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Bible says it, that settles it.

That's not an answer to your question.

So why did God, who superintended the translation of the King James Bible, have them write that Herod intended to do something after "Easter"?

 

[AV1611VET]

So why did God, who superintended the translation of the King James Bible, have them write that Herod intended to do something after "Easter"?

You mean like here?

Acts 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. ( Then were the days of unleavened bread. )
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You mean like here?

Yes, that appears to be the passage.

 

[renniks]

Why don't you try imagining eternity with no variety, no purpose, no end in sight. Then be honest with yourself - does that sound like fun? You would be horrified by the thought of even a few years in such a state. Eternity? That's not a pleasant thought.

That's not at all how heaven is described. Maybe hell is like that. We are told of beauty and purpose, reigning forever.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Yes, that appears to be the passage.

There was a Herodian dynasty which lasted until 44CE IIRC. The Herod in this passage is the great grandson of the Herod from Jesus' birth story.

 

[coffee4u]

The real Jesus who lived on the Earth and died for us and was raised again from death--not just a character in a storybook whose existence we are forced to acknowledge because the storybook is supposed to have magical properties. I believe in Jesus, not the Bible.

The scriptures are his word to us. So that we may know him.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

That's not at all how heaven is described. Maybe hell is like that. We are told of beauty and purpose, reigning forever.

Where does the bible say there is a purpose in the afterlife?

What it says is that everything, including us, will be different. We will have restricted feelings, eg no negative emotions, only positive ones (though how it's possible to have a comparative without a comparable is beyond me). So if God's going to change you, it's not really you gaining eternal life and all bets are off.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There was a Herodian dynasty which lasted until 44CE IIRC. The Herod in this passage is the great grandson of the Herod from Jesus' birth story.

I'm not concerned with an anachronism. AV seems to be strongly asserting (and who would deny it?) that 'Easter' is a particularly Christian thing, and not at all a Jewish thing (i.e. Passover).

And that God himself ensured that the word "Easter" was correctly placed into this passage, uniquely among the translations of pascha.

The passage says that Herod intended to do something after Easter.

Why would Herod set his timetable by a Christian holiday?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I'm not concerned with an anachronism. AV seems to be strongly asserting (and who would deny it?) that 'Easter' is a particularly Christian thing, and not at all a Jewish thing (i.e. Passover).

And that God himself ensured that the word "Easter" was correctly placed into this passage, uniquely among the translations of pascha.

The passage says that Herod intended to do something after Easter.

Why would Herod set his timetable by a Christian holiday?

Ah, I thought you were questioning who the person was, not that person's motivation.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. AV seems unable to grasp that Christianity did not exist when most of the bible was written but grew over of a number of centuries.