Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

[Albion]

The doctrine of Sola Scriptura is the reason behind the division.

Interestingly enough, Luther pointed out that the Church of Rome had departed from tradition and the Apostolic consensus, too, which he said could be seen in the fact that the Eastern Orthodox churches rejected Rome's additions and changes just like the Reformers did.​

 

[Haipule]

It is obvious that you know NOTHING about the Roman Catholic Church, otherwise you would thank God every day for the Catholic Church.

As far as my attire, I'll wear what God has given me. The big hat is the hat that a Melkite Catholic Monk wears. At least you get to see my face. A lot of the cowards don't even post a face on this Forum, but instead, you post an ink drawing of some guy being thrown over a wall.

I do not thank the RCC for anything! Really Dude?

Many of your "Church Fathers" were anti- Semitic. Do you want me to give you a list with their quotes? A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Your "church" became a world wide political power, De Medici family included(4 Popes), with the Papacy(through economics) having authority over the true kings of the world!

Really? Indulgencies? Priests can't marry(so the RCC can steal their inheritance)--which is inhumane to a God loving male! Fish on Friday to support fish mongers? On and on...

Dude, the RCC is the worst thing that ever happened in human history! Inhumane and completely Godless! "Justification" my butt!

If you don't believe me, then ask the Eastern Orthodox and Martin Luther and everyone since!

 

[fhansen]

Interestingly enough, Luther pointed out that the Church of Rome had departed from tradition and the Apostolic consensus, too, which he said could be seen in the fact that the Eastern Orthodox churches rejected Rome's additions and changes just like the Reformers did.​

Ok, so we should appeal to today's Orthodox and Protestants for the final word then. Plenty of consensus there. Maybe the answer is that there is no good answer then.

 

[Albion]

Ok, so we should appeal to today's Orthodox and Protestants for the final word then. Plenty of consensus there. Maybe the answer is that there is no good answer then.

THAT's what you took from my uncomplicated note? Really?

What I was saying was that the idea that Sola Scriptura is what caused division is ridiculous, indefensible.

That's it.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Satan has been active in the church since its very inception and organization. Using the pride of individual leaders to create schism and hatred. In the Orthodox church we pray during the service in unity, and when we pray at home we pray in the plural ("Have mercy on US", not "me"). The docrinal unity of the church goes far beyond JUST doctrine. How can the church truly be unified if it is not praying the same? If one claims praying in the trinity is heresy, and the other claims praying just to one aspect is? Even more than that, the split of the church has split the communion of the church. Orthodox wont take communion with Catholics and vise versa. Half the Protestants don't believe Communion is more than a symbol, and that Catholics and Orthodox are pagans or something or other. The divisions in the church have weakened it to the point where we are hated not because we serve the LORD, but because we can't stop arguing with each other and come to a point.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

It is obvious that you know NOTHING about the Roman Catholic Church, otherwise you would thank God every day for the Catholic Church.

As far as my attire, I'll wear what God has given me. The big hat is the hat that a Melkite Catholic Monk wears. At least you get to see my face. A lot of the cowards don't even post a face on this Forum, but instead, you post an ink drawing of some guy being thrown over a wall.

It is Jezebel being thrown out the window....

Saul of Tarsus - False Apostle Paul Archive: Who exactly were the jewish Pharisees? As a Pharisee, Saul of Tarsus was a "child of hell" according to the words of the Messiah !! The Messiah STRONGLY warned his followers against the doctrines of the Pharisees. Why?

 

[Haipule]

The Eastern Orthodox Catholic(I add that because it is part of their official name. Even though they don't like being associated with the RCC) Church is opposed to sola scriptura and so am I. Yet, I am opposed to Orthodox traditionalism.

According to them, their tradition supercedes the Word and that is why they are opposed to sola scriptura theologies.

Yet, both the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox Catholic can not teach the God promised zOE-life because of their doctrines and traditions.

Did not Jesus Himself warn us of such things putting a premium on life and not sola scriptura or traditionalism?

 

[fhansen]

THAT's what you took from my uncomplicated note? Really?

What I was saying was that the idea that Sola Scriptura is what caused division is ridiculous, indefensible.

That's it.

Um, no, the assertion that SS doesn't cause division within Protestantism is ridiculous, indefensible since 1) Protestantism, generally speaking, employs the bible as its rule of faith, and 2) Protestants disagree on tenets of the faith regularly, based, again on the bible.

 

[Radagast]

since 1) Protestantism, generally speaking, employs the bible as its rule of faith

As the primary rule. There are often secondary standards, such as the Westminster Confession. Those secondary standards do not reduce the number of denominations, so clearly Sola Scriptura is not the causative factor.

Rather, conservative Protestants are simply less tolerant of a wide range of theological opinions than Catholics. The big Thomist/Molinist debate within Catholicism would have caused a theological split among Protestants.

 

[eleos1954]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Of course Satan is behind it. Jesus came to save the lost. Satan don't care about the lost, he already has them .... Satan's MO is to attack and bring down those following/professing Jesus Christ .... and where are most of those people? In the churches. Satan is the master of deception and confusion. Remember Judas was in Jesus' inner circle.

 

[Albion]

Did not Jesus Himself warn us of such things putting a premium on life and not sola scriptura or traditionalism?

Now that you mention it, no, I do not remember Christ ever saying not to trust God's word.

 

[Albion]

Um, no, the assertion that SS doesn't cause division within Protestantism is ridiculous, indefensible since 1) Protestantism, generally speaking, employs the bible as its rule of faith, and 2) Protestants disagree on tenets of the faith regularly, based, again on the bible.

...just as Catholics do. And they are NOT Sola Scriptura. It's common for Catholics to try to lay the origin of division on Protestants, but it was the pre-Protestant church that had the big split involving the Oriental Orthodox and then again with the Eastern Orthodox in the Great Schism of 1054. These divisions dwarf most of the Protestant divisions and precede them by many centuries.

In addition, there are no two Catholic churches that believe the same thing while following their alternative to Sola Scriptura -- Holy "Tradition."

 

[Toro]

Both. Saying its either one or the other is too narrow sighted, like saying all violence is gun violence..... in a shooting, yes its gun violence but not so much..... the cause and causer of the deception depends on His will.

Jesus even talks about how He came to cause division
Luke 12:51
Matthew 10:35

There are many false images of Jesus. Matthew 24:24
That is the division caused by Satan, which God is pleased to allow. 2 Thessalonians 2:11, that includes those that follow false doctrines/denominations. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The type of division that Jesus brings is division by truth. meaning those that hate truth will avoid truth as they love their deceived hearts. Just as Adam chose that which appealed to his flesh rather than choosing God. Those that love the dark will always flea from the light. In other words, Jesus divides man from his flesh to unite him with God.

The type of division that Satan brings is the type that divides man from God by bringing death to the spirit (separation/enmity with God). The VERY same division that caused Adam to fall away from God.

As for if it is fair that God allows those to be deceived or not, thats not really our place to say:
Exodus 33:19

We are the creation, not the creator....
Romans 9:18-20
Romans 9:21-23

Those that belong to Him are His, those that do not belong to Him belong to the flesh and as flesh will be destroyed as flesh.

 

[☦Marius☦]

The Eastern Orthodox Catholic(I add that because it is part of their official name. Even though they don't like being associated with the RCC) Church is opposed to sola scriptura and so am I. Yet, I am opposed to Orthodox traditionalism.

According to them, their tradition supercedes the Word and that is why they are opposed to sola scriptura theologies.

Yet, both the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox Catholic can not teach the God promised zOE-life because of their doctrines and traditions.

Did not Jesus Himself warn us of such things putting a premium on life and not sola scriptura or traditionalism?

That is not true. Tradition does not precede scripture because scripture is part of Holy Tradition...

Every tradition we have is checked by scripture. What you are saying is absolutely false and slightly offensive. We obsess over scripture. Tradition and scripture are one.

 

[Haipule]

That is not true. Tradition does not precede scripture because scripture is part of Holy Tradition...

Every tradition we have is checked by scripture. What you are saying is absolutely false and slightly offensive. We obsess over scripture. Tradition and scripture are one.

Like transubstantiation?

 

[☦Marius☦]

Like transubstantiation?

A belief which the Orthodox Church doesn't have?

Also what exactly is unbiblical about transubstantiation?

 

[Andrew Jeremiah]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

If your "Satan" is Lucifer, the cherub, then Lucifer is STILL an obedient servant of the LORD.

 

[Buzz_B]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

The spirit of Satan certainly is involved but I believe God has allowed this for good purpose. Satan cannot overpower God and so anywhere Satan is able to accomplish anything it has to be that God has for good reason allowed it. And I believe that good reason is to sift hearts so that those who really do care about God's righteousness are helped to see what is really in their own hearts.

We are to hate false doctrines and anything which is a lie, for the devil is the father of the lie. But we are to learn to have fervent love for one another.

When we are faced with each others differences of beliefs, some of those beliefs quite disturbing depending upon our way of thinking, it presses us to make the decision of what we will hate. And we learn about our self by what we find our self hating. Do we hate falsehood? We are supposed to. But do we allow another person's falsehood to move us to hate that person? We then have a problem in our self which we need to attend to, and the differences of beliefs which God permitted to be stirred up helped us to learn of that need. Being aware of that we can take steps to adjust our thinking so as to perfect our love in God's image further.

Of course, there is a balance to that which if we do not have, that lack of balance also hinders our image of God. Psalms 11:5 "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

It boils down to the following:

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Mark 9:49 "For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt."

Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"

 

[Radagast]

Every tradition we have is checked by scripture.

If that were true, that would be Sola Scriptura. Checking everything by Scripture is what Sola Scriptura means.

But it's not true; some aspects of what's called Tradition are not found in Scripture.

 

[Radagast]

Also what exactly is unbiblical about transubstantiation?

The real presence is a biblical doctrine. But transubstantiation (the doctrine that the substance of the bread vanishes, while the accidents of the bread continue, inhering in no substance) is not found in the Bible.