Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations we find? Or, is it the Lord?

[bling]

Today, I think the very best large group might be found in communist China.


Severe persecution will eliminate the differences in the insignificant stuff separating a lot of denominations and the truth will prevail.

I have for years now been involved with the underground Church in China (being in the USA, I cannot do much directly).

40 years ago Christianity was virtually wiped out in China, all full time ministers were sent to concentration camps never to be seen again, except for the government approved “churches” that were very restricted. All religious books were burned and outlawed. We all assumed there were no native Christians left in China. The news today is that there might be as many as 100 million Christians in the underground churches in China and it is growing fast.

These Chinese Christian are lucky to have a complete Bible, yet they all seem to be teaching the exact same doctrine. From what I heard the Government established their “creed”, by publicly listing out what Christians “could not teach”, which became the list for what they taught: Christ the son of God, crucified, buried three days and rose, immersion baptism, communion, forgiveness of sin, heaven and hell. They all seem to practice: believer immersion baptism to show a commitment to Christ, count the cost is very much emphasized, sacrificially helping other, and training everyone to teach since they are limited in size to groups of 20 or so they have to keep splitting up as they grow (they do not just make converts, but make disciples).

For years the Communist Government toned down their hard line opposition to Christianity to appease the international governments while they were economically growing, but with a down turn in their economy they have stepped up persecution and still wants to have some “control” over the underground Christian Church. They have acknowledged verbally that they cannot stop these Christian and in some ways are envious of their commitment and morals.

 

[gideon123]

For example ...

I met a deomination who believed that they were more devoted than all the others. and if by accident you arrived late, by just 5 minutes, to the service, then they would believe that you lacked dedication to the Lord. Did they accept other churches? No.

I also knew a denomination that believed that they prayed 'in the Spirit' and 'were led in the Spirit'. And they most certainly believed that all other churches had only a mediocre contact with the Holy Spirit. Did they cooperate with other churches? Not very much.

This kind of thing is quite common.
I do not see it as Christ-like.

 

[Doug Melven]

Then all denominations can not be doing God's perfect will.

I don't believe any of these denominations are doing God's perfect will.
I do believe they are doing God's will, at least the ones that are preaching the Gospel to the lost.

Then you can not grow and mature in more and more doctrinal truth.

Why?
I learn new things almost every week.
The weeks I don't learn something new I get to share.

By the way, there is no church that is 100% doctrinally correct.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

If you look at the history of the church, particularly post-reformation you can see that actually it is both.

Most denominations actually arise as the previous denomination becomes staid and run by people without the vision of the originators. When someone with vision then comes along the denomination leaders get scared of innovation and say no forcing the visionary to set up on their own.

e.g. Booth's ideas were rejected by the Methodists, so he started the Salvation Army

 

[Blade]

Its definitely not Gods work. Is His house divided? One God one Jesus and one body. Jesus said of Satan there is no truth in him. It never started out this way. Yet I am sure so much of it was man also.

So if someone asks me.. I just have a relationship with Christ, I believe all of His word.. it all works.

 

[notreligus]

https://www.amazon.com/American-Ori...939&sr=8-1&keywords=american+originals+conkin

https://www.amazon.com/Religious-Hi...id=1518811018&sr=1-1&keywords=sydney+ahlstrom

I own both of these books and I encourage Christians in the USA to read one or both these. Christians left Europe on the late 1700's to come to this country for religious freedom, and boy, did they take advantage of that! It was like kids in a candy store.

One Movement in Scotland, the Restoration Movement, was imported to America by a man named Robert Sandeman, whose father-in-law was John Glas, a Scottish Presbyterian who wanted to be independent of the hierarchy of the Prebyterian Church in England. (Also look into the backgrounds of Robert and James Haldane.) After this Restoration Movement came to America it produced other new religious groups in this country. Restorationist Sidney Rigdon, who had been an associate of Alexander Campbell (Disciples of Christ/Church of Christ), and Rigdon's followers joined with Joseph Smith and helped with further formation of the Mormon Church and their doctrine. Paul Conkin speculates that Rigdon may have written at least part of the Book of Mormon. The Christadelphian faith was another byproduct of Restorationists.

The Jehovah's Witnesses,Seventh-Day Adventists, Pentecostalism, and Christian Science....these are other new religious groups newly formed in America.

 

[Yarddog]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find?

IMHO, yes.

Or, is it the Lord?

IMHO, no, though I believe he knew it would occur.

Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

IMHO, the different churches fail to see the Holy Spirit at work within the others, many times.
I feel that scripture foretells this in the same way that the Gospels are each unique in how they relate the life of Jesus. We all believe that each is inspired by God but each tells the Gospel a little differently. Though he different Christian churches have a little different doctrine, we each are baptized into the body of Christ with the same Holy Spirit.

Romans 14 tells us not to argue with each over matters of faith, because God accepts each based on their faith. We each live for God and each die for God. The same God.

 

[Introverted1293]

Like someone said, denominations agree on the major issues, but disagree on the miner issues. I have seen different denominations get together to worship. I don't know if you have heard of the Benham Brothers. They are Christian leaders that speak on issues like abortion and religious freedom and transgenderism and the alternative lifestyles. They have been on the news a lot. Anyways, they organize a few years ago a prayer conference with a bunch Christian churches in Charlotte, North Carolina. And a bunch of Christians, at least 1000, showed up from different denominations. It was called Charlotte 714. That shows me that Christians from all different denomination still agree on the major issues and they are united because of that.

And in my town, once every year there is a gathering of all the churches in the park. And we have different denominations as well. The Assemblies of God shows up, the Vineyard Church shows up, the Baptists etc. I am sure you all understand.

 

[DominicBaptiste]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

I actually have a theory that Satan is a gold-digging woman. I was watching a TV special a while ago about a man who stole millions from the US government, and when it came out why he did it, it was to keep some woman up in a mansion in DC somewhere. My thinking is that if she had just settled for a smaller house, he might not have been driven to steal. It's probably an extreme argument, especially from a feminist perspective, but it's worth considering. Here's a picture of Katy Perry dressed up like Satan, and I'm putting a Satanic hymn to go with her, just for the effect. The way that relates to church denominations is that some woman dreams up she needs something, and then sends out her minions to make it happen. When people (namely the men) realize they can't live up to her demands because they're too expensive, they found a new church to bypass her, and then it happens over and over again.

 

[aiki]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Blind post.

Many of the denominations in my city exist for reasons of cultural heritage. There are for example, German Baptists and Swedish Baptists. They believe fundamentally exactly the same thing, but have become distinct from each other mainly as a consequence of language and culture. Other denominations only differ from others in peripheral matters or organizational structure, holding the same central tenets of the faith in common. The Evangelical Free denomination is indistinguishable in most respects from the Missionary Alliance denomination which is very similar to the Baptist denomination. I've talked with members of the Church of the Nazarene, with Mennonites, and with Presbyterians and found wide swathes of common ground doctrinally with them. A gospel message from the pastor at the Pentecostal Calvary Temple church down the street from ours is almost exactly the same as a gospel message our pastor might preach. I don't see, then, that many evangelical denominations are widely divided from each other. Quite the reverse, actually. I certainly don't think the devil has had anything to do with the formation of these denominations.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find?

Yes and no.

God is using sin for His purposes - just as He has always done.

Sinners don't sin to be used of God. They sin for their own purposes. That's true of Satan and his activities and it is true with those who gather together under erroneous doctrine.

Or, is it the Lord?

Yes - it is ultimately the Lord who has ordained it - just as is always the case with all that occurs in God's creation.

"For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you." 1 Corinthians 11:18-19

It keeps us on our toes on Sunday morning just as it does when we are debating here on the internet.

The Lord will sort us out when the time comes.

In the mean time there is reason to be careful and some us here in the forum would be better served if they just listened more and talked less:

"Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." James 3:1

 

[TuxAme]

Do you think it makes God proud that Christendom is as divided as it is?

No, it doesn't come from Him.

 

[Albion]

But almost every denomination/communion/church is internally divided as well, and many of the churches that scorn schisms and splits have actually thrown out the would-be reformers from their respective churches, after branding them as heretics. (Several additional facts which show us that the issue is not as cleancut as "Tsk tsk, how awful it is that there are so many denominations instead of unity" makes it seem).

 

[Radagast]

Division is a result of the sinful human condition. Denominations, however, are a very good thing. They represent a step towards Christian unity -- they are a bunch of people that agree on specific things.

 

[GenemZ]

I don't know what kind of denominations you've been attending, but I've attended several, and never once have I been inclined to think inside that box of which you speak. Every denomination has its way of seeing things, and they are no more to be blamed for having a perspective than you are.

If you want to grow in understanding you will eventually find yourself bumping into walls. Try telling certain baptists that water baptism is not essential for salvation. Try telling Catholics that the bread and wine do not become the literal flesh and blood of Jesus.... And, try telling Charismatics that real tongues ceased in 70AD... those are only a few minor examples.

You preach unity, and then you preach this. If we're always getting picky about choosing a church with a perfect doctrine, then we're only destined to become more divided. If a church is part of the body of Christ, regardless of whatever lesser doctrines they miss, then they are not to be shunned. Otherwise, I'd have to shun you.

Wait a minute. How did you get that from this I said?

"God is not pleased if we simply assemble where much false or weak doctrine is being taught."​

So, you are saying God is pleased by attending where false and weak teachings are given?

 

[timewerx]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

The Lord.

Matthew 10:34-35
Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.…

He will do this to separate His sheep from the world, from people who only has religion and who think they have a personal relationship with the Lord but are only deceived.

The Lord said, "Only few will find it" and Christians aren't exactly few in this world. Nearly half of the world's population are Christians. And He will turn away many "believers" in the judgement - Matthew 7:22-23.

 

[mukk_in]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Maybe. Some movements like the Protestant reformation by Martin Luther began from genuine thirst for reforming the Church. Peace in Christ.

 

[DamianWarS]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

every single believer is responsible to be their brothers keeper and love his neighbor as themselves. a division usually means both parties have failed to do this.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Loving one's neighbor and or brother does not include having fellowship with their wickedness. For Scripture says,

11 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." (1 Corinthians 5:11-13).

 

[Tom 1]

Is Satan behind the division of the many denominations that we find? Or, is it the Lord? Denominations that contradict one another, and claim inspiration from God. How can they be?

Like anything involving people I think it’s more complicated than that. I was part of a church for a number of years that had a pretty simple theology, and whose leaders were quick to denounce other denominations for their ‘obvious’ errors. They were right maybe in some ways but once you started to look under the hood none of it fitted together very well. Now I’m considering joining a much older church with a deeper and more considered overall theology. I can see already that this church has strengths and weaknesses too. Which is right? I’m not sure if that is a valid question. For me the Nicene creed sums up what is essential pretty well, God does make us after all very different, individual thinkers. There is more than enough room for differences in practice and opinion in non-essential teachings - I think the ‘wrongness’ comes in when this or that group starts to believe they somehow have it all ‘more right’ than others, although that said I do think some churches are more committed and serious than others in applying what they believe.
A useful book that tackles a central issue while taking into account the different theological approaches of different denominations is Beasley-Murray’s ‘Baptism in the New Testament’. As well as being an interesting read I think this book is a great example of a scholar from one tradition (Baptist) being open to learn from other traditions.