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Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Markie Boy, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Markie Boy

    Markie Boy Looking East, Moving Slow Supporter

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    I'm struggling some with the Marian devotions in Catholicism, and others - the Immaculate Heart, Sacred Heart, seems to be a never ending dividing things up. Can't we just be devoted to Jesus and the teachings He left us thru the Apostles.

    I am feeling like all these other added devotions sort of say the original wasn't enough, so we need XYZ on top of that.

    Would Orthodox agree that Mary is the Queen of Heaven?
     
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  2. AMM

    AMM A Beggar Supporter

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    I believe so.

    Whereas the Church has officially proclaimed as dogmas the doctrines concerning the Trinity and the Incarnation, the glorification of the Mother of God belongs to the Inner Tradition of the Church. As the noted Orthodox theologian, Vladimir Lossky writes: It is hard to speak and not less hard to think about the mysteries which the Church keeps in the hidden depths of her inner consciousness.... The Mother of God was never a theme of the public preaching of the Apostles; while Christ was preached on the housetops, and proclaimed for all to know in an initiatory teaching addressed to the whole world, the mystery of His Mother was revealed only to those who were within the Church.... It is not so much an object of faith as a foundation of our hope, a fruit of faith, ripened in Tradition. Let us therefore keep silence, and let us not try to dogmatize about the supreme glory of the Mother of God [Panagia, in The Mother of God, ed. E.L. Mascall, p.35].
    Taken from here: - The Mother of God


    Also, there's this:

    Regarding the glorification of Mary as Queen, we need again only look at our own liturgical texts:

    The Bride of God, the Queen and Virgin, the glory of the elect, the pride of virgins, is translated to her Son.
    Aposticha, Dormition.

    I shall open my mouth and it will be filled with the Spirit, and I shall speak
    forth to the Queen and Mother.
    Canon of the Akathist.

    And finally, at every liturgy, during the Prothesis, a triangle is cut from the bread and placed on the Discos while the verse is read: ''The Queen stood at thy right hand, clothed in a robe of gold and diverse colors." Thus, at every liturgy, which is our participation in the Kingdom of Heaven. It must reveal an eternal truth.
    Taken from here: https://www.orthodoxwest.com/the-rosary-hughes-the-rosary
     
  3. Markie Boy

    Markie Boy Looking East, Moving Slow Supporter

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    So the Orthodox are in favor of the Rosary too??
     
  4. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    the hymn Oh Pure Virgin calls her a Queen as well, so I would say yes.
     
  5. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Who stands at the left, and of whom?
     
  6. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Please don't assume that because we recognize a particular title in common (Queen of Heaven, or Mother of God) ... that we hold all else in common.

    Context, always context. From an Orthodox point of view, many Catholic Marian devotions and doctrines (even dogmas) are wrong.

    Pretty much everything that frames the Theotokos in Orthodoxy - really points to Christ. The title Theotokos - Mother/Birth-giver/Bearer of God - isn't about who Mary is but about Who Jesus is ... God Himself.

    You'd have to ask each question separately.

    And I'm no expert on the Rosary. What little I know is that, while we prefer the Jesus prayer, I don't think there's anything strictly problematic theologically in the words of the Rosary? (I could be wrong though. Maybe someone else knows better.) But I think the method of praying, with the suggested imaginations, would be something the early Fathers taught against.
     
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  7. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If it remember correctly, most Western Orthodox skip the later additions (last few sections) to the rosary and use the older version. Some also use the older version of the Hail Mary in the rosary.
     
  8. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    And I really think maybe I should have added that what we really find problematic are some of the "powers" assigned to the Theotokos perhaps because of the title "Queen of heaven" within Catholicism.

    We do NOT see her as any kind of co-redemptrix in the way that Christ is our Redeemer. She did of course participate by being His mother and the one by which He took the human flesh that was part of our salvation. But she is not elevated along with Him.

    And the suggestion that she could be the "mediator of all graces" is completely impossible in our theology. That would imply that she controls God Himself, so we cannot say such a thing.

    But she is the prime example of a person devoting her very life to Christ and saying "yes" to God - a "Christian" in the truest sense.
     
  9. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    One way I like to look at it is that she is the great example, not the great exception.
     
  10. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    Mary is at Christ's right according to the Psalms.
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Ah that's another one ... the reason we can't agree with the Immaculate Conception (I used to think that referred to Jesus being born of a virgin.)

    I've gotten forgetful of some of our Marian differences, since my main goal was to settle it in my mind.

    Thank you for the reminder.

    And the correction here:

     
  12. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Are you sure it's in Psalms? Could you point out the verses? I found this in 1Kings.

    1 Kings 2:19
    Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

    Also doesn't the triangular piece of bread represent the trinity? Some believe that the Holy Spirit is just a 'placeholder' for Mary's eventual investiture as the third personage of the trinity, which would allow worship of her as part of the Godhead. Any truth to that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    Psalm 45:9, and Mary is not and will never be a part of the Trinity.
     
  14. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No truth to it, and who on earth thinks that? Jack Chick?
     
  15. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Isn't the "queen" here the bride of the King, not his mother?
     
  16. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    So she's not one of the points or sides of the bread triangle?
     
  17. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    yes, and Mary, being the living Temple in whom God dwells and the first one who becomes divine by grace, is the ultimate type of the Church.

    and the Church is the bride of Christ.

    that's why it's Mary as the Queen.
     
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  18. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Historically it was the Queen mother who often held a degree of authority or position - not necessarily the bride of the king.

    Esther risked her life just by approaching (her husband) the king on his throne without being sent for.
     
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  19. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I've never heard that anywhere. It's very strange ...
     
  20. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    "Divine by grace" means her Assumption into heaven?
     
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