Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?

[All4Christ]

The Orthodox Faith, Worship, and Life : Orthodox Catechism: An Outline by Hieromonk Gregorios

Thanks.

Admittedly, I’d have a hard time still with some of the wording in that book, particularly the part about the her being the neck and being the only way to lead everyone to Christ. I can understand it in an “Orthodox” way, but it certainly would be confusing to me. Yes, through her yes and being the Mother of God, she leads us to Christ. It’s worded in a way that needs explanation imho.

 

[Markie Boy]

Yeah - I'm not sold on Her being the only way that leads us to Christ. She is the only why that He came into the world, but many were led to Christ through preaching of the Apostles - most I'd venture to say. Look a the day of Pentecost.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah - I'm not sold on Her being the only way that leads us to Christ. She is the only why that He came into the world, but many were led to Christ through preaching of the Apostles - most I'd venture to say. Look a the day of Pentecost.

yes, but Pentecost was only possible because of the Incarnation, and the Incarnation is only possible because she said yes to God.

 

[All4Christ]

Yeah - I'm not sold on Her being the only way that leads us to Christ. She is the only why that He came into the world, but many were led to Christ through preaching of the Apostles - most I'd venture to say. Look a the day of Pentecost.

Yes, I think the understanding that makes sense to me is what Fr Matt said. In the sense that it is through her saying yes to God - she paved the way for our salvation, so to speak. (And remember that Mary was also at the Pentecost - Acts 1:14)

Father John Breck wrote this in regards to some of the prayers of the liturgy - and it seems like a good explanation.

If Jesus is truly the eternal Son of God, the God-man who “became flesh” in the womb of Mary; if in and through her person He, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, actually assumed our human nature, to transfigure that nature and restore it to its “original” intended purity and holiness; if His saving, redeeming work was realized because of Mary’s “fiat,” her willing acceptance of virginal birth-giving through the power of the Holy Spirit—if all of this is true, then we can do nothing other than acknowledge her role in God’s economy of salvation, and celebrate that role, with joy and conviction, in the services of the Church.

Source

 

[Not David]

Thanks.

Admittedly, I’d have a hard time still with some of the wording in that book, particularly the part about the her being the neck and being the only way to lead everyone to Christ. I can understand it in an “Orthodox” way, but it certainly would be confusing to me. Yes, through her yes and being the Mother of God, she leads us to Christ. It’s worded in a way that needs explanation imho.

The book provides quotations as I showed with each paragraph.

 

[All4Christ]

The book provides quotations as I showed with each paragraph.

Yep I saw those. Considering I still have trouble with some phrases in the Small Paraklesis to the Most Holy Theotokos - which is attributed to St Theophane, it would make sense that I’d have a hard time with the quote in the catechism book. St Theophane had a high mariology and expressed things in a very poetic and expressive way.

 

[Markie Boy]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

because the real reason we bless the womb that bore Him, is because Mary heard the Word and kept Him in her womb.

 

[prodromos]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

Mary is blessed because of her obedience, not because she nursed Christ (although she was also blessed by that)

 

[~Anastasia~]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

It's funny, in our modern understanding it sounds like maybe Jesus is saying something like "no, she is not blessed just because she was My mother. Don't talk about her. Rather what's really important and what really blesses people is that they hear My word and keep it". (Of course that's NOT what He is saying.)

Maybe it's the words "but" and "rather"?

Because of course, the Theotokos always heard His words and kept them. From before His birth, she submitted to God. So it can't be "not-Mary-but-instead" the way it sounds to us. (I remember understanding it that way when I first read the passage as a child.)

Rather she is the prime example of hearing God and keeping His word. So yes, agreeing that Jesus is saying that is the prime reason for her (and our) blessedness, rather than familial connections.

I just thought that was an interesting question.

 

[All4Christ]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

Interesting fact - for all the feast days honoring the Theotokos, this is our gospel reading. If it was meant as a negative response in regards to Mary, why would the church, so long ago, choose it as the reading for those days?

ETA: This is another reason why the Immaculate Conception doesn’t make sense for us. Mary is honored because she believed - and honestly was the first to believe. If she had a perfectly pure heart free from original sin (as understood by the Western Catholic Church), then in my opinion, she was bound to believe. She chose the path to be faithful to God in all things - and she believed not because she was the exception. She is the example for us all as a human being who chose God above all else and believed in Jesus our Lord upon His conception in her womb.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yeah - I'm not sold on Her being the only way that leads us to Christ. She is the only why that He came into the world, but many were led to Christ through preaching of the Apostles - most I'd venture to say. Look a the day of Pentecost.

God the Father draws us to Christ.

 

[Theophilus2019]

After the resurrection of Jesus we hear nothing more of Mary. The last words she is recorded as saying are, of Jesus, "do whatever He tells you." There is no biblical basis whatsoever for Mary being the queen of Heaven, or of anywhere else.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I've never heard that anywhere. It's very strange ...

In the ritual of the Divine Liturgy Mary seems to be connected to the Holy Trinity.

 

[Lukaris]

God the Father draws us to Christ.

Yes and God told us of His divine plan of Incarnation & who would be the Mother.

God declares the Son being sent:

Isaiah 48:16

God declared who would be His bearer:

Isaiah 7:14

God sent the angel Gabriel to St. Mary & she obeyed His will because God would not enter anything defiled upon His Incarnation.

Luke 1:26-38

The Father clearly loves the one He chose to bear His Son. The Son clearly honored His earthly mother by telling St. John to behold mother Mary as the mother of St. John ( John 19:26-27).

 

[“Paisios”]

I just wonder, in Luke 11:27 we read this:

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”

And Jesus replies:

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus didn't seem to encourage what the woman was saying. Why did he do this?

Maybe because her comments were off topic to the rest of the discourse that was going on in that chapter, and He wanted to bring the conversation back to its main point? (Speculation on my part, but I thought that was what was happening here…please correct me if I’m wrong).

 

[All4Christ]

In the ritual of the Divine Liturgy Mary seems to be connected to the Holy Trinity.

Only in the sense of the Christological doctrine that Jesus is truly 100% God and 100% human. All honor to Mary points back to Christ. It may not seem that way when you first hear it, but that is how it is understood within the Church.

Mary is not a divine being or a deity. She is not part of the Holy Trinity. She is not the source of the divinity of God - but she is the Mother of Jesus Christ who is fully God. She points to the incarnation - and is seen as an example of what we should strive to be as fellow believers in Christ.

Some day, should we finish the race, we too will be more honorable than the cherubim, and more glorious that the seraphim. That’s what we are called to do as children of our Lord God.

 

[ArmyMatt]

After the resurrection of Jesus we hear nothing more of Mary. The last words she is recorded as saying are, of Jesus, "do whatever He tells you." There is no biblical basis whatsoever for Mary being the queen of Heaven, or of anywhere else.

that's like saying there is no Biblical basis for the Trinity since that word is not used in the Bible.

and you are also wrong. Mary is in the Upper Room at Pentecost. Pentecost happened after the Resurrection, so we do hear of Mary after the Resurrection.

 

[~Anastasia~]

In the ritual of the Divine Liturgy Mary seems to be connected to the Holy Trinity.

I attend the Divine Liturgy every week, and I've never heard anything that confused me into thinking that the Theotokos was part of the Holy Trinity.

Edited to add - sorry a bit short on time. Looks like A4C understood and gave a better answer. Thank you, Laura. And forgive me.

 

[All4Christ]

I attend the Divine Liturgy every week, and I've never heard anything that confused me into thinking that the Theotokos was part of the Holy Trinity.

Edited to add - sorry a bit short on time. Looks like A4C understood and gave a better answer. Thank you, Laura. And forgive me.

I think the part that made me understand was knowing some of the heretical teachings of Sergius Bulgakov - who promoted something similar to her almost being part of the Holy Trinity.

I’ve never taken it that way in the liturgy myself - but I can understand the feeling, especially when first hearing the liturgy. For me, I didn’t see it has her being part of the Holy Trinity - but the hymns about / to her were confusing to me regarding her role.