Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?

[Tigger45]

yes, and Mary, being the living Temple in whom God dwells and the first one who becomes divine by grace, is the ultimate type of the Church.

and the Church is the bride of Christ.

that's why it's Mary as the Queen.

Excellent answer. I must say I was originally confused by your initial response but now it makes sense.

 

[ArmyMatt]

"Divine by grace" means her Assumption into heaven?

that's part of it, but it happened earlier in her life.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

yes, and Mary, being the living Temple in whom God dwells and the first one who becomes divine by grace, is the ultimate type of the Church.

and the Church is the bride of Christ.

that's why it's Mary as the Queen.

That is interesting.

 

[ArmyMatt]

That is interesting.

indeed it is

 

[Lukaris]

I believe the woman of Revelation 12 is the Virgin Mary & that she personifies the Church.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I believe the woman of Revelation 12 is the Virgin Mary & that she personifies the Church.

She also personifies Israel.

 

[Not David]

From my catechism book:
The Most Holy Mother of God is the Queen of Heaven. That's why in heaven her all-holy Dormition was a celebration presided over by Christ Himself. St John of Damascus says, addressing Christ: 'Come down, O Lord, come down, to repay to Your Mother, to whom You are so indebted, all that You owe her for having nurtured You.
On the Dormition of the Mother of God, 3.4. PG 96.760A

 

[prodromos]

Who stands at the left, and of whom?

In Mark 10 and Matthew 20, we have recorded the request of James and John to sit at Christ's right and left hand in His kingdom, to which Jesus responded;

"to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father"​

It has long been understood by the Church that these places were for Mary the Theotokos and John the Forerunner and Baptist.

 

[Not David]

I still feel there is a strawman in some ideas of Catholicism with Mary (I am not saying that some theology is right, the Immaculate Conception and her Ascension without death are wrong). Nevertheless, someone could say some stuff about Orthodoxy with Mary can seem excessive like St. John of Damascus saying Christ owes to the Blessed Virgin.

In my catechism book:
The Lady Mother of God is the bond linking heaven and earth, she unites man with God, From Christ, the head of the body which is the Church, comes every perfect gift (Jas. 1:17); and through the Mother of God, who is the neck of the body, the divine gift reaches the faithful, the members of the body. "The Mother of Jesus, who directly bears the head which is Christ, is a mediator between the head of the Church and the body, and in a way a link joining the two like a neck... In consequence, just as the head [Christ] is the only way that leads to the Father... so this sacred neck [the Mother of God] is also a way, the only way, that leads everyone to the head of all [Christ].
Theophanes, Theotokos 22-3. pp. 128-32. Cf. John 14:6: No man comes to the Father except through me.

The power of the Mother of God's prayers is invincible. Every sinner calls on the all-merciful Mother of Christ and through her finds salvation: 'I have you as Mediatress with God the lover of mankind... I supplicate you, O Virgin, come unto my aid most quickly.
The Great Supplicatory Canon, Exapostilarion.

In my Protestant times, I would have been worried about how Mary is called "Mediatress with God", "Mediator between the head of the Church and the body" and finding salvation through her.

 

[prodromos]

So she's not one of the points or sides of the bread triangle?

What bread triangle are you talking about?

 

[Andrei D]

What bread triangle are you talking about?

The triangular piece of prosphora that represents the Theotokos at Liturgy most probably.

 

[prodromos]

The triangular piece of prosphora that represents the Theotokos at Liturgy most probably.

Ah. There is no theological significance to it being a triangle, any more than the "lamb" being square. It is simply the shape formed by the "Θ" on top of the "Μ" which refers to "Mother of God", "Μητερ Θεου".

 

[Newtheran]

I'm struggling some with the Marian devotions in Catholicism, and others - the Immaculate Heart, Sacred Heart, seems to be a never ending dividing things up. Can't we just be devoted to Jesus and the teachings He left us thru the Apostles.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know that Immaculate Heart and Sacred Heart are so much an Orthodox thing as they seem to be more of a post "Immaculate Conception" RCC thing.

Queen of heaven is - to assist your understanding, think "Queen mother" more than divine spouse.

Mother of God - to assist your understanding frame the Trinity as "God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit" instead of just God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes words have cultural baggage associated with them.

 

[Lukaris]

I think another influence towards the veneration of the Theotokos & heavenly imagery can be traced back to the martyred mother, her 7 sons & Eleazar the priest. This is in the Bible of our church & found in the 2nd book of Maccabees 7 ( see: Douay-Rheims Bible, 2 Machabees Chapter 7

Prior to the birth of our Lord this woman was highly venerated by the Jews. This is evident in the 4th Book of Maccabees which is not counted as scripture. Interestingly 4th Maccabees is really just an epic homily on the account of the mother, 7 sons, & Eleazar found in 2nd Maccabees 7 (as already noted).

Anyway, see chapter 17 of 4th Maccabees & note verse 5.

4 Maccabees 17 CEB - Some of the guards reported that, just - Bible Gateway

I should also mention that the Orthodox Church venerates these Holy Maccabean martyrs:

7 Holy Maccabee Martyrs

 

[Markie Boy]

I still feel there is a strawman in some ideas of Catholicism with Mary (I am not saying that some theology is right, the Immaculate Conception and her Ascension without death are wrong). Nevertheless, someone could say some stuff about Orthodoxy with Mary can seem excessive like St. John of Damascus saying Christ owes to the Blessed Virgin.

In my catechism book:
The Lady Mother of God is the bond linking heaven and earth, she unites man with God, From Christ, the head of the body which is the Church, comes every perfect gift (Jas. 1:17); and through the Mother of God, who is the neck of the body, the divine gift reaches the faithful, the members of the body. "The Mother of Jesus, who directly bears the head which is Christ, is a mediator between the head of the Church and the body, and in a way a link joining the two like a neck... In consequence, just as the head [Christ] is the only way that leads to the Father... so this sacred neck [the Mother of God] is also a way, the only way, that leads everyone to the head of all [Christ].
Theophanes, Theotokos 22-3. pp. 128-32. Cf. John 14:6: No man comes to the Father except through me.

The power of the Mother of God's prayers is invincible. Every sinner calls on the all-merciful Mother of Christ and through her finds salvation: 'I have you as Mediatress with God the lover of mankind... I supplicate you, O Virgin, come unto my aid most quickly.
The Great Supplicatory Canon, Exapostilarion.

In my Protestant times, I would have been worried about how Mary is called "Mediatress with God", "Mediator between the head of the Church and the body" and finding salvation through her.

I agree - some of the terms for Her cause a knee jerk reaction of - I don't think so! But with explanation like above they make more sense.

Problem is some don't get over the instant reaction to the inflated titles and stay stuck there. I am of the belief that some titles should not be used if they cause problems, because in my experience most people don't take the time to learn and read to understand, and stay stuck with that first reaction.

Theotokos is adequate, and accurate. Can you make a case for the others titles, probably. But the Church has literally messed people up and even repelled them by the use of some titles - which is counter to the actual purpose of the Church - to draw people to God. That in itself says using those titles isn't a good idea.

 

[prodromos]

I agree - some of the terms for Her cause a knee jerk reaction of - I don't think so! But with explanation like above they make more sense.

Problem is some don't get over the instant reaction to the inflated titles and stay stuck there. I am of the belief that some titles should not be used if they cause problems, because in my experience most people don't take the time to learn and read to understand, and stay stuck with that first reaction.

Theotokos is adequate, and accurate. Can you make a case for the others titles, probably. But the Church has literally messed people up and even repelled them by the use of some titles - which is counter to the actual purpose of the Church - to draw people to God. That in itself says using those titles isn't a good idea.

This is why people should spend some time in catechism before being received into the Church.

 

[Markie Boy]

Agreed. Our RCIA didn't really dig into stuff. Shallow Church history, boring as heck. No challenging theological questions. Instructor like to talk a lot, and list little.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Theotokos is adequate, and accurate. Can you make a case for the others titles, probably. But the Church has literally messed people up and even repelled them by the use of some titles - which is counter to the actual purpose of the Church - to draw people to God. That in itself says using those titles isn't a good idea.

Part of the problem for us is that we are reading these titles out of time when they were given and that we dont live in an monarchy or empire. The Akathist hymn "O Champion General" was dedicated for a storm that destroyed an Avar fleet that was blockading Constantinople.

O Champion General, we your faithful inscribe to you the prize of victory as gratitude for being rescued from calamity, O Theotokos. But since you have invincible power, free us from all kinds of perils so that we may cry out to you: Rejoice, O Bride unwedded.

If you simply take out of its historic context you can get all kinds of strange notions out of it.

 

[All4Christ]

I still feel there is a strawman in some ideas of Catholicism with Mary (I am not saying that some theology is right, the Immaculate Conception and her Ascension without death are wrong). Nevertheless, someone could say some stuff about Orthodoxy with Mary can seem excessive like St. John of Damascus saying Christ owes to the Blessed Virgin.

In my catechism book:
The Lady Mother of God is the bond linking heaven and earth, she unites man with God, From Christ, the head of the body which is the Church, comes every perfect gift (Jas. 1:17); and through the Mother of God, who is the neck of the body, the divine gift reaches the faithful, the members of the body. "The Mother of Jesus, who directly bears the head which is Christ, is a mediator between the head of the Church and the body, and in a way a link joining the two like a neck... In consequence, just as the head [Christ] is the only way that leads to the Father... so this sacred neck [the Mother of God] is also a way, the only way, that leads everyone to the head of all [Christ].
Theophanes, Theotokos 22-3. pp. 128-32. Cf. John 14:6: No man comes to the Father except through me.

The power of the Mother of God's prayers is invincible. Every sinner calls on the all-merciful Mother of Christ and through her finds salvation: 'I have you as Mediatress with God the lover of mankind... I supplicate you, O Virgin, come unto my aid most quickly.
The Great Supplicatory Canon, Exapostilarion.

In my Protestant times, I would have been worried about how Mary is called "Mediatress with God", "Mediator between the head of the Church and the body" and finding salvation through her.

What catechism book is that from?

 

[Not David]

What catechism book is that from?

The Orthodox Faith, Worship, and Life : Orthodox Catechism: An Outline by Hieromonk Gregorios