Is Mary the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?

[Blade]

You know.. the last time I answered some question like this.. it had been so long since I was here at the time.. but it was some guy just really asking about Mary and what not. And I just answered what the bible said. didnt add to it or add my personal view..all in love.

About a week later a MOD emails me..very nice asking about the post..as in why I posted it. Well I came to find out....this site judged my post as ..sorry I forgot what.. didnt say trolling but something like that. Then deleted it. THEN after they did that.. THEN they asked me about it.

Well.. I told them.. I did nothing wrong.. it was all in love..YET it must have offended someone..so it matters not..all I can say is sorry. So.. I will NEVER bow... Yeshua/Jesus Christ it the only way to the Father...

Upon this ROCK will I build my Church. For..ME..unless my Father and Jesus and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit have forgot.. no one has every talked to me about Mary EVER... as our brother said in the word.. The GOSPEL is being preached

 

[Not David]

No. She isn't. She was a mere human, full of all the various failings, ignorance, and frailties that afflict us all. She is no more worthy of veneration than any other sin-cursed human being. God did not need Mary to accomplish His will; she was not the crucial figure in the birth of Christ, God was.

So God lied when the Angel called her "Blessed" and "Full of Grace"?

 

[Not David]

No.. seriously..no.

Just leave me out of it when you speak of these things. Stop adding me into these unbiblical thought processes.

I'm a follower of Christ. Not of your beliefs.

I'm a follower of Christ and he set a Church which is "the foundation and pillar of Truth". The one that Jesus said "the gates of Hades would not reach her".

 

[Not David]

You know.. the last time I answered some question like this.. it had been so long since I was here at the time.. but it was some guy just really asking about Mary and what not. And I just answered what the bible said. didnt add to it or add my personal view..all in love.

About a week later a MOD emails me..very nice asking about the post..as in why I posted it. Well I came to find out....this site judged my post as ..sorry I forgot what.. didnt say trolling but something like that. Then deleted it. THEN after they did that.. THEN they asked me about it.

Well.. I told them.. I did nothing wrong.. it was all in love..YET it must have offended someone..so it matters not..all I can say is sorry. So.. I will NEVER bow... Yeshua/Jesus Christ it the only way to the Father...

Upon this ROCK will I build my Church. For..ME..unless my Father and Jesus and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit have forgot.. no one has every talked to me about Mary EVER... as our brother said in the word.. The GOSPEL is being preached

Don't you think Jesus who is God loved his mother? How much us should love her?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm a follower of Christ and he set a Church which is "the foundation and pillar of Truth". The one that Jesus said "the gates of Hades would not reach her".

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).

If Abrahams seed, then Sarah's our mother.

I am of Abraham's seed, because I belong to Christ.

 

[Not David]

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).

If Abrahams seed, then Sarah's our mother.

I am of Abraham's seed, because I belong to Christ.

Ok. Sarah is also a type of Mary, because she conceived a child according to the promise. In the same way Jesus is the new Adam, Mary is the new Eve.

 

[Ken Rank]

Where does the Bible say Jesus is the Father of the Church.

I didn't say he was. I said, "That would, if we insist on using titles like you suggest, make him the father of the church." But, I don't insist on titles. I was simply trying to show, that if the criteria he uses to make Mary the mother of the church, was applied to Yeshua, then based on what he did, we could call him father of it. I don't go there, I am simply trying to show that a flaw in his logic could be extended to show that Yeshua and Mary were husband and wife.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ok. Sarah is also a type of Mary, because she conceived a child according to the promise. In the same way Jesus is the new Adam, Mary is the new Eve.

Again your making stuff up.

Where in scripture does it say Jesus is the new Adam?

Jesus is the Messiah. Manna from Heaven. The Word of God. God in the Flesh.

I gave you Galatians 4:25-30 for Sarah being our mother. All your doing is disagreeing with scripture. (Which for the record I believe to be God breathed)

 

[Chris V++]

The 'Queen of Heaven' title for Mary is a little disconcerting given the past associations:

'Queen of Heaven was a title given to a number of ancient sky goddesses worshipped throughout the ancient Mediterranean and Near East during ancient times. Goddesses known to have been referred to by the title include Inanna, Anat, Isis, Astarte, and possibly Asherah (by the prophet Jeremiah). In Greco-Roman times Hera, and her Roman aspect Juno bore this title. Forms and content of worship varied. In modern times, the title "Queen of Heaven" is still used by contemporary pagans to refer to the Great Goddess, while Catholics, Orthodox, and some Anglican Christians now apply the ancient title to Mary, the mother of Jesus. ' - wikipedia

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

The problem is that when the pagan temples were closed in the 4th Century under Emperor Constantine, and Christianity became the state religion, there was a significant influx of ex-pagan worshippers into the Christian Church, and these did not have the same commitment to Christ. Many of these pagan worshippers worshiped the pagan queen of heaven as quoted below:

The Babylonian Religion started at the time of the Tower of Babel. It was called the religion of Baal. Baal came from the name Baalzebub which is a name for Satan.

One of the prominent things in Baal worship is their worship of goddesses. The Baal religion believed in many gods and that GOD WAS ALSO A WOMAN. THE VIRGIN and in particular THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN was looked to as a goddess.

What happened was that to give validity to the veneration of the virgin Mary, the pagan influence, as it increased in the Church, caused a merger of the worship of the pagan Queen of Heaven and Mary as the queen of the Church. This gave rise to prayers offered to Mary as if she is a god, but I fear that many of those prayers are being offered to a pagan Queen of Heaven through deception.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

safehouse forums

What is a safe house forum?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Again your making stuff up.

Where in scripture does it say Jesus is the new Adam?

Jesus is the Messiah. Manna from Heaven. The Word of God. God in the Flesh.

I gave you Galatians 4:25-30 for Sarah being our mother. All your doing is disagreeing with scripture. (Which for the record I believe to be God breathed)

In 1 Corinthians 15:22, Paul argues that "as in Adam all die, so inChrist all will be made alive," while in verse 45 he calls Jesus the "last/ultimate/final Adam".

Try reading the New Testament a bit more closely...

 

[bcbsr]

What is a safe house forum?

Safehouse forums are sub-forums on this site which define a specific group who are allowed to post and forbid anyone else scrutinizing that group or denomination within the sub-forum.

When you go to any forum make sure to read the rules for that forum. The more open forums are General theology, Soteriology, Controversian Christian Theology and a number of others, though each also has some restrictions, so read the rules.

 

[Tigger45]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

I didn’t think it was biblical until I watched this video.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In fact if you notice in the Nicene Creed it states that the the Virgin Mary was the mother of Jesus but that is it, it doesn't go any further as to state that she was the progenitor of all of Christendom.

Actually Mary was elevated to the "mother of God"-
November 1, 451: The Council of Chalcedon, the fourth ecumenical council, closes. The Chalcedonian Creed is issued, which re-asserts Jesus as True God and True Man and the dogma of the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

Then elevated again as being immaculately conceived -
1854: Dogma of the Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX

And again-

• 1950: The Assumption of Mary is defined as dogma by Pius XII

And again-

• 1954: First Marian year in Church history proclaimed by Pius XII, who introduced Marian Feast Queenship of Mary

 

[Philip_B]

Actually Mary was elevated to the "mother of God"-
November 1, 451: The Council of Chalcedon, the fourth ecumenical council, closes. The Chalcedonian Creed is issued, which re-asserts Jesus as True God and True Man and the dogma of the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

Then elevated again as being immaculately conceived -
1854: Dogma of the Immaculate Conception by Pope Pius IX

And again-

• 1950: The Assumption of Mary is defined as dogma by Pius XII

And again-

• 1954: First Marian year in Church history proclaimed by Pius XII, who introduced Marian Feast Queenship of Mary

I think it would be more correct to suggest rather than the Council of Chalcedon the Council of Ephesus, and the term employed was theotokos which I believe is open to some misunderstanding translated into Latin as mater dei (mother of God) and may be better rendered in English as 'The God Bearer'.

None the less you may want to lay some of the responsibility at the feet of the writer of the 3rd Gospel.

Mary Visits Elizabeth (Luke 1:39-45)
In those days Mary set out and went with haste to a Judean town in the hill country, where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leapt in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leapt for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.’​

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I think it would be more correct to suggest rather than the Council of Chalcedon the Council of Ephesus, and the term employed was theotokos which I believe is open to some misunderstanding translated into latin as mater dei and may be better rendered in English as 'The God Bearer'.

None the less you may want to lay some of the responsibility at the feet of the writer of the 3rd Gospel.

Mary Visits Elizabeth (Luke 1:39-45)
In those days Mary set out and went with haste to a Judean town in the hill country, where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leapt in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leapt for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.’​

This is the Catholic Church timeline.
Blessings

 

[Philip_B]

This is the Catholic Church timeline.
Blessings

Your point being?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Your point being?

Referring to where I obtained the information.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

The Church is Israel.

No it isn't.