Is Mary the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?

[Rawtheran]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

This is definitely a deep and good question that should be answered with great care and should be theologically sound. I think the first thing that should be stated is that it was never Jesus's intention to start a church and what I mean by this is that he never intended Christianity to become what it has become today which is a very divided church that meets in buildings. Jesus's intention was to establish a community of believers all across the world that would be united to share the truth about who God was and how it was his intention to reach out to humanity and make a way to have a relationship with the one who created them as well as to save them from their sense. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Mary as the mother of Jesus was an inspirational mother, and follower of God who was obedient by becoming the vessel who would carry the God Incarnate named Jesus who would one day die for the entire world. In this sense Mary is the "mother" of the church but I would not say at all that she is the mother of the institution of Christianity that would later be established by Paul, the Apostles, and the succeeding Bishops/Elders of the day. In fact if you notice in the Nicene Creed it states that the the Virgin Mary was the mother of Jesus but that is it, it doesn't go any further as to state that she was the progenitor of all of Christendom. Mary was also human and I actually believe that just like the rest of us Jesus had to die for her too because she also was born into original sin and needed a savior. I hope that this explanation helps bring some type of clarity and I do not in anyway claim to be a subject matter expert on this subject. Like all things only God is the one who reveals and knows all things.

 

[Tree of Life]

The Church is Israel.

There is certainly a great continuity between the New Testament Church and Old Testament Israel, but the continuity is not 100%.

And if you want to count the church as beginning with Abraham, which is a perfectly fine reckoning of the church, it's even less clear how Mary could be the mother of the church.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Luke 1:42
And she (cousin Elizabeth) cried out with a loud voice and said (to Mary),
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

 

[Hazelelponi]

Ok, I am not been rude.
You should understand that the Bible wasn't dictated by God word for word but it was inspired by the Spirit of God. In the same way, we know what Scriptures is because of the Church which also had the Holy Spirit whom he guided them. So I am not making any fantasies.

I understand the Catholic church determined Canon via the Holy Spirit... What resulted was considered "God breathed" by all Christians.

Deciding later you'd like to add your own thoughts to that and attempting to pretend that has the same weight as scripture is not morally right.

There shall be no speeding on Wornall road has more weight than Mary being our mother because at least no speeding on Wornall doesn't contradict existing scripture.

Scripture is done and was sealed. It cannot be added to nor subtracted from.

 

[Not David]

This is definitely a deep and good question that should be answered with great care and should be theologically sound. I think the first thing that should be stated is that it was never Jesus's intention to start a church and what I mean by this is that he never intended Christianity to become what it has become today which is a very divided church that meets in buildings. Jesus's intention was to establish a community of believers all across the world that would be united to share the truth about who God was and how it was his intention to reach out to humanity and make a way to have a relationship with the one who created them as well as to save them from their sense. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Mary as the mother of Jesus was an inspirational mother, and follower of God who was obedient by becoming the vessel who would carry the God Incarnate named Jesus who would one day die for the entire world. In this sense Mary is the "mother" of the church but I would not say at all that she is the mother of the institution of Christianity that would later be established by Paul, the Apostles, and the succeeding Bishops/Elders of the day. In fact if you notice in the Nicene Creed it states that the the Virgin Mary was the mother of Jesus but that is it, it doesn't go any further as to state that she was the progenitor of all of Christendom. Mary was also human and I actually believe that just like the rest of us Jesus had to die for her too because she also was born into original sin and needed a savior. I hope that this explanation helps bring some type of clarity and I do not in anyway claim to be a subject matter expert on this subject. Like all things only God is the one who reveals and knows all things.

Thanks for sharing in a friendly manner, I wish it could be like that always.

 

[Not David]

There is certainly a great continuity between the New Testament Church and Old Testament Israel, but the continuity is not 100%.

And if you want to count the church as beginning with Abraham, which is a perfectly fine reckoning of the church, it's even less clear how Mary could be the mother of the church.

Well, that's why I asked if there was really a difference.

 

[Not David]

I understand the Catholic church determined Canon via the Holy Spirit... What resulted was considered "God breathed" by all Christians.

Deciding later you'd like to add your own thoughts to that and attempting to pretend that has the same weight as scripture is not morally right.

There shall be no speeding on Wornall road has more weight than Mary being our mother because at least no speeding on Wornall doesn't contradict existing scripture.

Scripture is done and was sealed. It cannot be added to nor subtracted from.

Well, I'm not Catholic but Christ gave the authority to the Church to "bind and loose". Unless you claim the idea of the Theotokos being the Mother of Christians is Anti-Christian, I don't see how this is a wrong definition.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Well, I'm not Catholic but Christ gave the authority to the Church to "bind and loose". Unless you claim the idea of the Theotokos being the Mother of Christians is Anti-Christian, I don't see how this is a wrong definition.

What do you call disagreeing with God and teaching opposing ideas to people?

When the Bible says we have a mother, the Jerusalem above personified in Sarah, and someone (you) come along and say no no no.. that's not right Mary is our mother, that becomes anti-truth when scripture defines truth.

Scripture is God breathed.. you don't get to change it...

 

[Ken Rank]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

No... she was a human being who was righteous before the Lord and who was chosen for a very special calling. But to take it beyond that calling, and make her the mother of other things, starts adding to Scripture. It also begins to create confusion... for example...

Jesus started the church... he was the first to preach the gospel as we know it and it was his work that was carried on by the apostles after he left. That would, if we insist on using titles like you suggest, make him the father of the church because it came from him. If Mary is the mother of the church, and Jesus is the father of the church, then is the mother of Jesus his wife, too?

We need to leave Mary where God chose her, to bear a son. After that, she was a wife to Joseph, she had more children, and she walked righteously her entire life.

 

[Not David]

The idea of Mary being the mother of Christians is anti-Christian, in my estimation, because it's anti-biblical.

When the Bible says we have a mother, the Jerusalem above personified in Sarah, and someone (you) come along and say no no no.. that's not right Mary is our mother, that becomes anti-truth, when scripture defines truth.

Where do you get that passage from?

 

[Alithis]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

NO
Absolutley NO
Niether

 

[Not David]

No... she was a human being who was righteous before the Lord and who was chosen for a very special calling. But to take it beyond that calling, and make her the mother of other things, starts adding to Scripture. It also begins to create confusion... for example...

Jesus started the church... he was the first to preach the gospel as we know it and it was his work that was carried on by the apostles after he left. That would, if we insist on using titles like you suggest, make him the father of the church because it came from him. If Mary is the mother of the church, and Jesus is the father of the church, then is the mother of Jesus his wife, too?

We need to leave Mary where God chose her, to bear a son. After that, she was a wife to Joseph, she had more children, and she walked righteously her entire life.

Where does the Bible say Jesus is the Father of the Church.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Where do you get that passage from?

Galatians 4:25-30

 

[AlexDTX]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

She is the mother of Jesus the Nazarene and his siblings and no one else.

 

[wonderkins]

Neither. She was another person in need of a Savior.

 

[Chris V++]

She is the mother of Jesus the Nazarene and his siblings and no one else.

Catholic and Orthodox don't recognize the siblings as blood relatives. They believe Mary died a virgin and is perpetually a virgin, despite the verses that Joseph didn't 'know her' in the biblical since until after Jesus was born. They believe the siblings were Joseph's from another marriage, or in some cases they believe the reference to his 'brethren' meant countrymen or even 'cousins.' Virginity was also associated with purity. They prefer Mary to be spotless and without blemish, like the Lamb of God.

 

[Not David]

Galatians 4:25-30

Jerusalem here means the Church. However both the Church and Mary can be considered "Mother" since Mary is a type of Church like Ambrose said:
“Well [does the Gospel say]: married but a virgin; because she is the type of the Church, which is also married but remains immaculate. The Virgin [Church] conceived us by the Holy Spirit and, as a virgin, gave birth to us without pain. And perhaps this is why holy Mary, married to one man [Joseph], is made fruitful by another [the Holy Spirit], to show that the individual churches are filled with the Spirit and with grace, even as they are united to the person of a temporal priest.” – Expositio in Lucam

 

[Not David]

Neither. She was another person in need of a Savior.

Nobody denies that.

 

[aiki]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

No. She isn't. She was a mere human, full of all the various failings, ignorance, and frailties that afflict us all. She is no more worthy of veneration than any other sin-cursed human being. God did not need Mary to accomplish His will; she was not the crucial figure in the birth of Christ, God was.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Jerusalem here means the Church. However both the Church and Mary can be considered "Mother" since Mary is a type of Church like Ambrose said:
“Well [does the Gospel say]: married but a virgin; because she is the type of the Church, which is also married but remains immaculate. The Virgin [Church] conceived us by the Holy Spirit and, as a virgin, gave birth to us without pain. And perhaps this is why holy Mary, married to one man [Joseph], is made fruitful by another [the Holy Spirit], to show that the individual churches are filled with the Spirit and with grace, even as they are united to the person of a temporal priest.” – Expositio in Lucam

No.. seriously..no.

Just leave me out of it when you speak of these things. Stop adding me into these unbiblical thought processes.

I'm a follower of Christ. Not of your beliefs.