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Featured Is earthly Jerusalem the "great city" in the Book of Revelation?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by BABerean2, Sep 12, 2019 at 8:37 AM.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    1Pe 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.



    Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    (Has the "great city" fallen in the past?)

    Rev_16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    Rev_17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    Rev_18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    Rev_18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    Rev_18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    Rev_18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    .
     
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  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Revelation 11:8 is referring to the two witnesses, so it depends on which theology one is using ... that being ... is it referencing a historical or future event (the 42 months/1260 days)
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The text of Revelation 11 labels the witnesses as the "candlesticks", and the "olive trees".

    These are identified by Christ in Revelation 1:20, and by Paul in Romans 11:24.


    .
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Is earthly Jerusalem the "great city" in the Book of Revelation?

    Yes. I and a lot of orthodox partial preterists view 1st century Jerusalem and it's Temple as that great City [and so would the Jews if they would read Revelation].
    Josephus, Luke and Revelation go together like frosting on a cake.

    JOSEPHUS, OLIVET DISCOURSE AND BOOK OF REVELATION

    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    Revelation 18:

    7 ‘As much as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be giving to Her torment<929> and sorrow<3997>. That in Her heart She is saying:
    'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I am being, and sorrow not no I shall seeing.'

    8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
    death and sorrow and famine.
    And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.

    Lam 1:1
    How deserted lies the City, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations!
    She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.

    ======================
    Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

    VISUAL TIMELINE OF THE ROMAN-JEWISH WAR
    Including
    The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70

    TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
    MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
    POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
    Also see: Rapture refuted


    The Destruction Of JERUSALEM An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY: INCLUDING A NARRATIVE OF THE CALAMITIES WHICH BEFEL THE JEWS
    So far as they tend to verify OUR LORD'S PREDICTIONS Relative to that event.


    History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived.......................

    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21...............

    In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
    Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.
    And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"
    ===================================
    Revelation 18:
    7 ‘As much as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be giving to Her torment<929> and sorrow<3997>. That in Her heart She is saying:
    'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I am being, and sorrow not no I shall seeing.'


    Lam 1:1
    How deserted lies the City, once so full of people!
    How like a widow is She, who once was great among the nations!
    She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
    =================
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:22 PM
  5. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would say the earthly Jerusalem, in any case, is not "the Jerusalem above", "which is the mother of us all", like we have written in Galatians 4:26.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Excellent com7 :oldthumbsup: :amen:
    Galatians 4 and Revelation go together like frosting on a cake............

    Galatians 4:
    21Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, don't you listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the free woman. 23However, the son by the handmaid was born according to the flesh, but the son by the free woman was born through promise.
    24These things contain an allegory, for these are two Covenants.
    One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children to bondage, which is Hagar. 25For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for She is in bondage with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    27For it is written, "Rejoice, you barren who don't bear. Break forth and shout, you that don't travail. For more are the children of the desolate than of her who has a husband."
    28Now we, brothers, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29But as then, he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.
    30However what does the Scripture say? "Throw out the handmaid and her son, for the son of the handmaid will not inherit with the son of the free woman."
    31So then, brothers, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the free woman.
    ====================================
    Revelation 18:
    7 ‘As much as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be giving to Her torment<929> and sorrow<3997>. That in Her heart She is saying:
    'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I am being, and sorrow not no I shall seeing.'
    16 and saying,
    Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed<4016> with
    fine linen,<1039> and purple,<4210> [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12]
    and scarlet,<2847> and have been gilded<5558> in gold <5553> and precious<2093> stone and pearls<3135>
    That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.


    Lam 1:1
    How deserted lies the City, once so full of people!
    How like a widow is She, who once was great among the nations!
    She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 12:45 PM
  7. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Replacement theology, false identification of who the church and Israel are. 1 Peter 1:1 identifies who his letter is written to.

    1 Peter, an emissary of Messiah Yeshua,

    To the sojourners of the Diaspora in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia—chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, set apart by the Ruach for obedience and for sprinkling with the blood (a)Exodus 24:3-8) of Yeshua the Messiah:

    May grace and shalom be multiplied to you.​

    Or as the NIV states 'To God's elect, exiles scattered...' Just like the opening in the book of James/Ya'akov

    James 1:1
    • New International Version
      James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.
    Galatians 2
    7 On the contrary, they (Influential leaders in Jerusalem i.e. James/Peter/John) saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the uncircumcised just as Peter was for the circumcised. 8 (For the same God who was at work in Peter as an emissary to the Jews, also was at work in me as a emissary to the Gentiles.) 9 Realizing the favor that had been given to me, Jacob and Peter and John—who are the recognized pillars—shook hands in partnership with Barnabas and me, so that we would go to the Gentiles and they to the Jews.
    Replacement theology continues to skew the identity of the elect as you have done above. The elect according to Peter was NOT the gentiles believers 'scattered' into the nations. It was the Jewish believers. As further identified by the footnote (a) leading to Exodus 24:3-8

    3 So Moses came and told the people all the words of Adonai as well as all the ordinances. All the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which Adonai has spoken, we will do.”

    8 Then Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which Adonai has cut with you, in agreement with all these words.”
    Which again footnotes back to Luke 22:20
    20 In the same way, He took the cup after the meal, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.
    Poured out for Faithful Israel, the elect.

    You seem to only be able to focus on the curses even when God has promised blessings IN THAT DAY as well.


    Amos 9
    David’s Sukkah Restored

    11 “In that day I will raise up David’s fallen sukkah.
    I will restore its breaches,
    raise up its ruins,
    and rebuild it as in days of old
    12 —so they may possess the remnant of Edom
    and all the nations called by My Name.”

    It is a declaration of Adonai, the One who will do this.

    13 “Behold, days are soon coming
    it is a declaration of Adonai
    “when the plowman will overtake the reaper
    and the one treading grapes, the one sowing seed.
    The mountains will drip sweet wine
    and all the hills will melt over.
    14 Yes, I will restore the captivity of My people Israel.
    They will rebuild desolated cities and dwell in them.
    They will plant vineyards and drink their wine.
    They will also make gardens and eat their fruit.
    15 Yes, I will plant them on their land,
    and they will never again be plucked up
    out of their land that I have given to them
    .”
    Adonai, your God, has said it.

    Why don't Christians confirm the Word of the Lord instead of boastfully replacing themselves within our blessings, all the while hurling the curses upon us. Do you think this action is pleasing to the Lord, the Holy One of Israel? He will smite you with the vengeance you seek for us. Repent before it's too late and your heart is hardened against the Lord and his anointed.

    Nehemiah 13:2
    For they did not meet Bnei-Yisrael with bread and water, but instead hired Balaam against them to curse them. However, our God turned the curse into a blessing.

    Proverbs 30:11
    There is a generation that curses its father and does not bless its mother.

    Zechariah 8:13
    It will happen that just as you were a curse among the nations, house of Judah and house of Israel, so will I save you and you will be a blessing. Fear not! Let your hands be strong!’

    Romans 12:14
    Bless those who persecute you—bless and do not curse.​

    Adonai, your God, has said it. It is a declaration of Adonai. And his proclamations stand against those who stand against Israel.

    No Israel, no Yeshua/Know Israel, Know Yeshua.
     
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  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Could the OP please add a poll thread?
    It can still be done, even if a thread is already created.......thanks
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The true form of "Replacement Theology" replaces the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

    It replaces the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

    It replaces the "son" who is the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".



    Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine based on race falls apart.



    The New Covenant: Bob George



    Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

    Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

    Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

    1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

    2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH
    (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

    Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

    Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

    ..................................................................

    Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Gentile believers differently than the Jewish believers, but some of us are making the same error today.

    Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 2:30 PM
  10. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Yes, that is what I see you believe and embrace. You even seem to juxtapose its meaning on the very people it speaks against. The very method used by those who replace the truth with a lie.

    The more you defend RT the more guilty you are of it.
     
  11. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    You mean this covenant?

    New Covenant Foretold
    30 “Behold, days are coming”
    —it is a declaration of Adonai—
    “when I will make a new covenant
    with the house of Israel
    and with the house of Judah

    31 not like the covenant
    I made with their fathers
    in the day I took them by the hand
    to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
    For they broke My covenant,
    though I was a husband to them.”
    it is a declaration of Adonai.

    32 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days
    —it is a declaration of Adonai—

    “I will put My Torah within them.
    Yes, I will write it on their heart.
    I will be their God
    and they will be My people.
    33 No longer will each teach his neighbor
    or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’
    for they will all know Me,
    from the least of them to the greatest.”
    it is a declaration of Adonai.
    “For I will forgive their iniquity,
    their sin I will remember no more.”

    34 Thus says Adonai,
    who gives the sun as a light by day
    and the fixed order of the moon
    and the stars as a light by night,
    who stirs up the sea so its waves roar,
    Adonai-Tzva’ot is His Name:
    35 “Only if this fixed order departs from before Me”
    —it is a declaration of Adonai—

    “then also might Israel’s offspring cease
    from being a nation
    before Me—for all time.”
    36 Thus says Adonai:
    “Only if heaven above can be measured
    and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
    then also I will cast off the offspring of Israel
    —for all they have done.”
    It is a declaration of Adonai.
    There are those silly 'declarations of the Lord' again... And why haven't you come to understand this covenant? It's made with Israel, we are God's people, He puts his Torah within our hearts, not doing away with it at all. AND if you would have bothered to continue to understand the rest of the covenant, he further declares that ONLY if the sun and moon and earth stop from their fixed order and depart from Him will "our offspring cease FROM BEING A NATION before him". ONLY if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out and found, THEN will he cast off the physical nation of Israel.

    So you seem to be placing judgement that even God does not on us. And you apparently refuse to show us mercy. God help you. ​
     
  12. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Yet here you are spreading threads regarding this 'foolish dispute'. You have based your whole argument upon the uselessness of Israel and the law. And you are called to avoid such things! I have no argument with genealogies and the law. And why are you again only quoting that from Paul that proves your false agenda? Your theology pits the Word given Israel against the Words given Israel through our Messiah. A huge red flag don't you know.

    3 Remind the people to be submitted to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, 2 to slander no one, without fighting, gentle, showing every courtesy to all people. 3 For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deluded, enslaved to various desires and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

    Romans 3
    3 Then what is the advantage of being Jewish? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. First of all, they were entrusted with the sayings of God. 3 So what if some did not trust? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 May it never be! Let God be true even if every man is a liar, as it is written,

    “that You may be righteous in Your words
    and prevail when You are judged.”

    5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? God is not unrighteous to inflict wrath, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) 6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? 7 But if by my lie the truth of God abounds to His glory, why am I still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil, so that good may come”—just as we are being slandered and as some claim that we say. Their condemnation is deserved!

    9 What then? Are we better than they? No, not at all. For we have already made the case that all—both Jewish and Greek people—are under sin.

    29 Is God the God of the Jewish people only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also. 30 Since God is One, He will set right the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then nullify the Torah through faithfulness? May it never be! On the contrary, we uphold the Torah.
    Paul NEVER ONLY identifies the curse, he always uses the curse to present the blessings. Not something I see in you at all. To you the nation of Israel and our Torah is useless and unprofitable. And in this way the devil has blinded you and you have been left to your own conclusions because of your hard heart against Israel. And in doing so are left blinded to the truth of our Messiah himself.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    If I had a dime for every time Dispensationalist Futurists bring up the R T card............
    Edit to add........I just realized TreWalker is an MJ.......that explains a lot.....

    The original replacement theology

    Answering the Charge of "Replacement Theology"
    Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of "Replacement Theology"

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

    Also see: Rapture refuted

    "Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.


    John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

    Christians are God's true "Jews" today.

    1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
    2. The church is God's Israel today.
    3. Physical Israel is equal to the gentiles today and like the Gentiles, must believe Jesus rose from the dead in order to be saved from punishment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 4:13 PM
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In Galatians 4:24-31 the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

    Sadly, some of us cannot let go of the Old Covenant, in order to embrace the New Covenant, and instead have to find something wrong with others who have.

    2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

    2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?




    .
     
  15. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Both of you prove you have nothing to offer but curses.... I have nothing to fear, nor anything to be concerned about your theology as it pertains to me, a Jew. It's utterly false and heretical. I'm more concerned with the way you will be treated on judgement day. I'd prefer you both to be blessed instead of cursed. But the latter is all you seem to take pride in.

    If you ever have a change of heart, and it becomes softened to the Word of the Lord, give me a ring...
     
  16. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    This is not God speaking. Nor is it the lead of the Spirit to confess such lies. You are not doing the work nor the will of the Father. This teaching is of the devil. And the myriad of Jews will never entertain such false teaching. But I don't believe you care about them/us. Your devotion is clearly not to the Holy One of Israel.

    No Israel = No Jesus / Know Israel = Know Jesus. As long as you deny Israel the Lord will deny you.
     
  17. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❣️ His little lady ❣️ Supporter

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    There are moments when I’ve questioned how I came to faith. Instances when I wondered why He led me to a Conservative synagogue that didn’t preach the gospel. Only to find myself in their bosom in time.

    I think there are many mysteries we neither know or understand. But I am confident we aren’t forgotten and certain He orders my steps. Be at peace. :)
     
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Is earthly Jerusalem the "great city" in the Book of Revelation?
    That is off topic to this thread.
    Take that Zionist Dispensationist Futurism elsewhere........

    Christian Zionism - a modern-day heresy?

    Christian Zionism = A modern heresy?
    1. *
      Yes
      93 vote(s)
      71.0%
    2. No
      38 vote(s)
      29.0%
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 5:36 PM
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



    The Orthodox Jewish man in the video above had to find the promise of the New Covenant on his own.


    The modern Church has done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with Orthodox Jews.
    The "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel 9 prove the baby born in a manger is the Messiah promised in the Hebrew scriptures.
    Why have we never seen this simple three-part message on Christian television?
    The Two Peoples of God doctrine is part of the problem.
    If we really love people we are to tell them the truth.
    Nobody today has a relationship with God, based on who their parents would be.
    See 1 John 2:23.

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 5:31 PM
  20. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

    60
    +47
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    I agree, yes you are making a disgrace of Christianity and a mockery of the new covenant.
     
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