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Jesus Christ is our only hope.
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Is baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Thread starter Neostarwcc
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Bible2+
Matthew 4:4
Yes, ultimately.
For in order to be saved ultimately, Christians must get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ's death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16). If people believe with all of their heart that Jesus Christ is the human/divine Son of God (Acts 8:37), then they can get baptized anywhere there is water (Acts 8:36) into which they can be fully-immersed (buried) (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12). They need to make sure to be baptized in the name of God the Father; and of the Son, Jesus Christ; and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38). Christians can get water-immersion baptized at, for example, a Baptist-type congregation.
Besides getting water baptized, Christians can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it is usually not given to them automatically at the moment that they become Christians. That is why the apostle Paul at one point asked some Christians: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).
Christians usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Holy Spirit baptism will not result in the speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many Christians have not yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they have not yet asked for it, under the principle of: "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many Christians have not yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it is no longer in effect. Christians can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.
Some people feel that baptism cannot be required for salvation, because baptism is a work, and salvation is not based on works, but on faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). But baptism is a kind of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-13, Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29). Just as Abraham, who is a model for Christians, was initially saved by faith alone, prior to his circumcision (Romans 4), so Christians are initially saved by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:2-5), prior to their baptism (Acts 8:36-38, John 20:31). But just as Abraham was ultimately saved by his works (James 2:21-24), so Christians will be ultimately saved by their works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b), which must include getting water-immersion (burial) baptized (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).
Mark 16:16b is not contradicting the requirement of Mark 16:16a and other verses that Christians get baptized if they are to be ultimately saved. Mark 16:16b does not mention baptism because Mark 16:16b is referring to non-Christians, who do not get baptized.
The thief on the cross could have been baptized before Luke 23:42-43 happened, but then backslid and committed theft. Also, baptism is only a New Testament/New Covenant requirement for ultimate salvation (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:3-11, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12). And the New Covenant was not put into legal effect until Jesus Christ died (Hebrews 9:16-17, Matthew 26:28). But Luke 23:42-43 happened before Jesus died; and so baptism was not yet a requirement for ultimate salvation. But now that Jesus' death is past, Christians have to obey all of His New Covenant commandments (John 14:21-24) if they want to obtain ultimate salvation (Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-8), including His commandment that every Christian get baptized (Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38), and by immersion/"burial" in the water of baptism (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12; cf. 1 Corinthians 14:37). Also, a Christian can ultimately lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), which includes unrepentant sins of omission (James 4:17), which would include refusing without repentance to get baptized, and by immersion.
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Bible2+
Matthew 4:4
It doesn't. That's why the eunuch could be baptized anywhere there was water (Acts 8:36-38).
Also, the Bible doesn't say (as is sometimes claimed) that "burial" baptism (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12) should not be taken literally.
For "burial" baptism is both literal and symbolic. Our literally being buried (immersed) in the water of baptism is symbolic of our dying and being buried into Jesus Christ's literal death and burial for our sins (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12). Similarly, when we literally rise up out of the water of baptism, this is symbolic of our being raised up into a new life in Jesus, just as Jesus was literally raised from the dead (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12). So if we deny our need to be immersed and then to come up out of the water, this is akin to denying the need for Jesus to literally die for our sins and be buried, and then to literally rise from the dead (1 Corinthians 15). That is, if we feel free to claim that the burial of baptism is wholly symbolic, then what will prevent us from claiming that Jesus' death and resurrection were also wholly symbolic, that they never actually happened, or never had to happen, literally?
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Alithis
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there is so much debated on this ,while dancing around the elephants in the room .
1 baptism is into the death and resurrection of the lord Jesus
at that moment he had neither died nor been resurrected . so how is the now repentant thief to be baptized ?
is he saved ? yes the same way Abraham and David are saved .
did he disobey the command to be baptized , no , he received no command to be baptized .
have WE received command to be baptized ? YES .
Try and enter the kingdom of God on the back of willful disobedience.... I don't recommend it .
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JoeP222w
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Which is the same way anyone is saved, through faith, by grace, in Christ.
Not as the means to or requirement of salvation. But as a demonstration of salvation.
If you say Abraham, David and the thief on the cross did not receive a command to be baptized for salvation, and yet we are required to be baptized for salvation, you are promoting 2 different ways that people are saved, and I don't think you can defend 2 different dispensations for salvation from the Bible. God does not change.
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Alithis
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GOD does not change - but the covenant he made has - he made a NEW ONE .
so lets look at it another way with 2 questions to consider 1- are you wiling to stand before god teaching people they need not get baptized ? im confident your not willing to do so .
2 Did you get baptized - because if you did and you did so with NO belief that God does anything by it as a result of obedience then you have never been baptized in faith in Christ .-
Why did the lord Jesus not teach his own hand picked disciples to stop baptizing people because it was not required ... ? have you ever known God anywhere to declare that people should do a pointless meaning less task that is not required to bring about a result ?
its like telling people how to bake bread and half way through the recipe go take a bath .. - i for sure KNOW the lord does not tell any one to do an UN-required task ever .
IN fact Not only does the lord Jesus NOT tell them to stop , he oversees the increase of water baptism.- WHY would he do that for a meaningless Unrequired action ?-
(because it is neither meaningless NOR unrequired . it is for living that we die in Christ and rise again in him that we may live a life unto God . if your planning to die the moment you believe in Christ then go right ahead , but if your planning to live in him and he in you and go do what he has for you to do -then best start with water baptism -its required .)
yes its one of those sentences few read because its been overshadowed by the insertion of verse and chapter breaks . But at the beginning of john ch 4 it states .." When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) ..... oh YES there it is , not only did the lord JESUS the living word and manifestation of the most High God manifested in flesh not stop them baptizing , he encouraged them to INCREASE in doing it . because he knew the power of it - and so does the adversary - and it is why it has been one of the three most attacked and undermined sections of the gospel ( repentance and the ceasing of sinful deeds - water baptism - baptism of the Holy Spirit )
i encourage you to think again and change your mind . unless your willing and confident to stand before the Lord Jesus himself and explain to him why you taught people that water baptism is unrequired And in opposition to His command ... Then i would not DARE to even remotely insinuate such a thing .
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Becoming a new creation in Christ is not accomplished by a man baptizing another man by earthly water, but by Him pouring His Spirit into us.
The water Jesus spoke of is the Spirit indwelling a person, you pour new wine into a new wine skin otherwise it would burst, break.
We are saved by His mercy, not according to our acts of righteousness. We are justified by HIS GRACE.
Titus 3
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
The water Jesus spoke of is the Spirit indwelling a person, you pour new wine into a new wine skin otherwise it would burst, break.
We are saved by His mercy, not according to our acts of righteousness. We are justified by HIS GRACE.
Titus 3
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
John 7
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
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I'm way behind on this thread (I had a lot of things to do yesterday) so I'll only reply to the first few pages. Sorry if people brought up good points before that.
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That is another interpretation of John 3:5 that I've heard. But I think the physical birth is more closer to what Jesus meant by being born of water because of what Nicodemus asked in John 3:4 and how Jesus responded in John 3:6. But you're right that the holy sprit also baptizes with water.
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1 Corinthians 1:17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Acts 19:1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues b and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.
In the above passages, three things are mentioned:
Preaching the Gospel
Baptism
Laying on of hands
Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus, which was the need to be born again, meta noia, to repent, change your mind about serving self to serving God, as interpreted by Christ, in order to be blessings to the world.
How is Jesus’s interpretation different from John the Baptist’s interpretation? John said that believers needed to stop serving self and start serving God by observing justice mercy and faithfulness. Then God would bless them according to the terms listed in Deuteronomy 29. This would include escaping the wrath of God, which in the past had meant capture and transportation away from the land of Israel. Jesus preached that He was the real Promised Land, Kingdom of God, in whom was safety from wrath, all the blessings of obedience, and the receiving of the promise to Abraham.
Matthew 11:2Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples3and said to Him, “Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?” 4Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. 6“And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me.”
Galatians 3:14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
So the Gospel is the message that turning away from serving self and serving God was preached by Jesus as abandoning all the things that linked a believer to selfishness and following Christ, exhibiting the great works of God, so that others would also leave selfish living and follow God, just like Moses exhibited the great works of God and had his name written in the Book of Life, for being a blessing to the world, which is more important than having demons subdue to you. When the hearer agreed with the gospel, he could be blessed by anyone who recognised a correct confession. For example, Simon the Sorcerer was probably accepted through baptism by Peter.
If Simon the Sorcerer had not fallen away like Judas and Ananias and Sapphira who wanted to return to Egypt, selfish living, he would have been accepted as clean, and the church would have washed his feet:
Ephesians 5:25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
However, he showed he wanted to fall away and needed to be bathed again.
About laying of hands, we need to see that Peter was very careful who he layed his hands on. He did it to those who were being sent away. Without the support of the church, those sent out needed to be empowered to wash away whatever hold Egypt had on new believers. This would explain why Paul ordained the new believers in Acts 19, because they were isolated from the main body of the church.
So we see that preaching kicks of the process of salvation, and continues with baptism into the washing ministry of the church on demonstrating faith. When distance makes it difficult to gather with the saints, the new congregation needs to be empowered to be self sufficient through the laying of hands. When the perfect comes, when the believers see God just as He sees us, face to face, because we have been washed pure by the word, are in Christ, salvation is competed.
1 Corinthians 13: 8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
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You bring up some very good points. Baptism isn't really required for our salvation but every Christian should get baptized because baptism is a part of faith.
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