Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

[redleghunter]

We are dead in our sins in the old man. We hear the word of God through the gospel, we respond by faith and the Spirit of God in his Son makes us alive in the resurrection of his Son, the new man: through water baptism.

Acts 10 disagrees.

 

[Andy centek]

So where does it say that Noah was saved by water ? Scripture never states that!
Noah was saved when He entered into The Ark. God's Elect are saved today when they enter into the Body of Christ which is a spiritual salvation made possible only by God and His Holy Spirit; the second witness.

The apostle Paul was sent to the Gentile world as well as to the chosen Ones of Israel who believed on Jesus Christ. Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus to preach to the Gentile world at large.

This also means that which was given to Israel was not given to all everywhere! Yet man takes what is Israel's and applies it to themselves. Beware, you reap what you sew!

Where do all these false teachings come from? They come from the Spirit of Satan who works in men in Their Denominations. Did Paul ever preach: Set up Denominations? No, never.

Eph 4:1-6 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness, with long suffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

So then how to men get the authority to do all the things which are being done in the Denominations of Today? They get if from themselves, not from God through Christ Jesus The Lord.

There is much more that needs to be written on this, but I will leave it as is for now.

Andy Centek

 

[Matthew13:9]

Acts 10 disagrees.

I'm not sure what you mean. Peter could not refuse water baptism seeing they already had the Holy Ghost: and to refuse him that has the Holy Ghost would be like refusing God which is the reason why Peter baptized them even though they were gentiles. The plan for them was the hear the word of the gospel and believe and be baptized: and God confirmed that they were his even though they were gentiles by giving them the Holy Ghost before water baptism which God knew they were going to receive.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You child of man, when will you stop perverting the right way of God.

"true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh." Romans 2:25b "Do not judge, and you will not be judged." Luke 6:37

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'm not sure what you mean. Peter could not refuse water baptism seeing they already had the Holy Ghost: and to refuse him that has the Holy Ghost would be like refusing God which is the reason why Peter baptized them even though they were gentiles. The plan for them was the hear the word of the gospel and believe and be baptized: and God confirmed that they were his even though they were gentiles by giving them the Holy Ghost before water baptism which God knew they were going to receive.

Baptism is an outward sign of a work that God is doing inside of us? That is why Jesus tells the Pharisees: " But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone." You can not do one and leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

 

[Matthew13:9]

"true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh." Romans 2:25b "Do not judge, and you will not be judged." Luke 6:37

The circumcision of Christ is putting off the old man through water baptism.

And the eyes of my understanding are enlightened and see to be able to take the mote out of my brother's eye.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Baptism is an outward sign of a work that God is doing inside of us? That is why Jesus tells the Pharisees: " But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone." You can not do one and leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

Baptism is the work of God.

 

[redleghunter]

I'm not sure what you mean. Peter could not refuse water baptism seeing they already had the Holy Ghost: and to refuse him that has the Holy Ghost would be like refusing God which is the reason why Peter baptized them even though they were gentiles. The plan for them was the hear the word of the gospel and believe and be baptized: and God confirmed that they were his even though they were gentiles by giving them the Holy Ghost before water baptism which God knew they were going to receive.

Yet you said:

We are dead in our sins in the old man. We hear the word of God through the gospel, we respond by faith and the Spirit of God in his Son makes us alive in the resurrection of his Son, the new man: through water baptism.

Which indicates all the above happens through water baptism. All of it happened before water baptism. Water baptism was the seal of the covenant.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Yet you said:



Which indicates all the above happens through water baptism. All of it happened before water baptism. Water baptism was the seal of the covenant.

God knew they were going to be baptized which is the reason why he gave them the Holy Ghost. God would not have given them the Holy Ghost if they were not going to be baptized: and the Holy Ghost is the Seal of salvation, the promise of God that you will enter into the kingdom(spirit) of God(Jesus) on the last day.

 

[redleghunter]

God knew they were going to be baptized which is the reason why he gave them the Holy Ghost. God would not have given them the Holy Ghost if they were not going to be baptized: and the Holy Ghost is the Seal of salvation, the promise of God that you will enter into the kingdom(spirit) of God on the last day.

We are justified by faith not water. The justified get baptized.

 

[Matthew13:9]

We are justified by faith not water. The justified get baptized.

You are not understanding the importance of baptism or what it means. The water in water baptism represents the word of God, the gospel,and the person baptizing is he that justifies you through baptizing you into his death and raising you up with him through the water that you may live life in the new man, which is in the image of God who is the son of God Jesus Christ: in him you are Justified and not in the old man, which believers have put off through water baptism which is the circumcision of Christ: this is the new birth being raised with Jesus from the dead: being born from the dead. This is the day they were begotten of God.

 

[Light of the East]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

I think the question you should ask yourself is this: What did the very first Christians practice?

Whatever they did, they learned it from the Apostles who taught them the Christian faith.

I would therefore suggest you do some reading to find out what those who learned directly from the Apostles said on this matter. That would clear things up, I think.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

This thread makes my head hurt lol.

I hope we all can agree it's faith which cleanses us inside. Then part of it is coming to Christ confessing our sins and him as our Lord and Savior. Ultimately I believe baptism is an act of faith publicly expressing what's already believed and received in Jesus and Spirit. It's the baptism of the Spirit that coming personally to Christ entrusting our lives with him which saves. The outward cleanse comes after as a result of the change within by the cleansing of the Spirit in faith.

It's a matter of the heart and the circumstances you have. If you're able to show your faith getting baptized, why not? When it's not possible or something as a result of faith is preventing you, is it the only act of faith which to express your confession and belief as a sinner who came to Jesus your Lord and Savior?

My opinion but I think we're nitpicking how faith is had and what it means. All it does is make it harder for people to understand and them feeling they must do this and that to the tiniest detail. Why can't it be left at faith saves and what that includes is only known for certain by God. Only what we know is what we need as revealed personally to us as we mature spiritually. For all of us this means having humility before the Lord and even being open to the possibility he's speaking to us through others.

 

[Matthew13:9]

This thread makes my head hurt lol.

I hope we all can agree it's faith which cleanses us inside. Then part of it is coming to Christ confessing our sins and him as our Lord and Savior. Ultimately I believe baptism is an act of faith publicly expressing what's already believed and received in Jesus and Spirit. It's the baptism of the Spirit that coming personally to Christ entrusting our lives with him which saves. The outward cleanse comes after as a result of the change within by the cleansing of the Spirit in faith.

It's a matter of the heart and the circumstances you have. If you're able to show your faith getting baptized, why not? When it's not possible or something as a result of faith is preventing you, is it the only act of faith which to express your confession and belief as a sinner who came to Jesus your Lord and Savior?

My opinion but I think we're nitpicking how faith is had and what it means. All it does is make it harder for people to understand and them feeling they must do this and that to the tiniest detail. Why can't it be left at faith saves and what that includes is only known for certain by God. Only what we know is what we need as revealed personally to us as we mature spiritually. For all of us this means having humility before the Lord and even being open to the possibility he's speaking to us through others.

None of you know you just assume it's this or that. Blind leading the blind.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

not necessarily, but obedience to God's commands is.

are you in a situation where you can get baptized and refuse?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

Yes, if you have the ability to be Baptized then there is nothing to restrict you from keeping the Lord's commandment to be baptized. But there are also requirements before baptism, and for how one is supposed to be baptized.

1. In order to saved you must first believe on Yahshua the Christ
John 3:3,15-18,35-36
Acts 16:31-33
John 6:47
John 5:24
John 14:1
Romans 10:8-9
Hebrews 11:6
Acts 10:43
1 John 5:4-13
Mark 16:16
___________________________________________________________________________
2. We must believe that Christ was God manifest in the Flesh
1 Timothy 3:16
Collosians 2:8-9
John 1:1,14
John 8:28
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
3. Must believe Christ lived a sinless life
1 Peter 2:22
2 Corinthians 5:21
Hebrews 4:15
1 John 3:5
1 Peter 1:18-19
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
4. Must belive Christ died for all mans sins
Luke 1:77
Acts 13:38
Hebrews 10:16-18
Luke 24:45-47
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5. We must believe he raised himself from the Grave on the Third day
John 2:19-21
John 10:17-18
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
6. We must repent of all our past sins and ask the Lord for forgiveness in the name of Yahshua the Christ
Luke 24:45-47
Acts 2:36-39
Luke 3:2-4,18-21
Matt 4:17
Revelation 3:19
Acts 17:30
Luke 15:7,10
Mark 1:4,15
Luke 5:32
Matt 9:13
Acts 8:16,19
Acts 10:43, 48
Acts 19:5
Acts 22:16
1 Cor 1:13
1 John 1:8-10
Acts 13:24

1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
7. We must forgive all those who have sinned against us or we will not be forgiven
Matthew 6:14-6:15
Matthew 18:15,21-22
Colossians 3:12-13
2 Corinthians 2:7-11
Ephesians 4:32
Mark 11:25-26
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
8. One name given under heaven given unto man by which they may be saved, Yahshua the Christ
Acts 4:10-12
Matt 28:18-20
Acts 10:48
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
9. Baptized into Christ's death and born again into everlasting life
Romans 6:3-11
John 3:2-7
Galatians 2:19-20
Colossians 2:10-15,19-23
1 John 5:5-8
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
10. Must be Baptized in the Name of Yahshua the Christ Alone for forgiveness and remission of Sins
Matthew 28:19-20
Acts 2:38
Acts 19:5
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
11. Every single person that believed on Christ was baptized
Galatians 3:26-27
Matthew 28:19-20
Acts 2:38, 41
Mark 16:16
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 22:16
John 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
Acts 19:4
Acts 10:48
Mark 1:4
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 16:31-33
Acts 18:8
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
12. Baptism is a requirement for salvation, every person who believed on Christ was baptized. All those who believe and have the ability to be baptized need to baptized in order to be saved. Unless you are born again of water and spirit by the Blood of Christ you cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven.
John 3:1-8
1 Peter 1:23
Colossians 3:10
2 Corinthians 5:15-17
Titus 3:5
John 1:11-13
1 John 5:5-8

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
We are saved by Faith alone(Ephesians 2:8-9) but we are justified by faith and works(James 2:14-26). So if we have faith we will keep the commandments of the Lord(Revelation 14:12-13; John 14:15-21). One of Those commandments, and one of those works that must be done, is that we must be born again(John 3:1-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Colossians 3:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15-17; Titus 3:5; John 1:11-13). Baptism is the means by which we are born again(Romans 6:3-11; John 3:2-7; Galatians 2:19-20; Colossians 2:10-15,19-23) born in the spirit(John 3:6; Galatians 4:29). In order for the Baptism to work you have to have a name(Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Acts 19:5). Not just any name but a name so special, powerful, and unique that it was the only name of its kind given under heaven(Acts 4:10-12; Matt 28:18-20; Acts 10:48). A name given to us by God Himself, given to us in God's own name(John 5:43)(Yah). The bible speaks in great detail on this matter, and does not fail in stressing the magnitude and importance of the only name heaven has given us to be saved.

1. We are to be born again by the Spirit, the baptism of the Spirit is the fulfillment of the Promise issued by the Lord(Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31) where he told us he would put a New spirit into us(Ezekiel 36:26-27)(his Spirit) and would also give us a New heart(Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 36:26) after the Circumcision of the Heart(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3). We are saved by Faith Alone(Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 5:1-2) not of works lest any man should boast, a person could receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism as was shown in the Bible(Acts 10:44-48). Though a person does not always receive the Holy spirit before water baptism, as shown in(Acts 19:1-6; Acts 2:37-38, 41; Acts 8:10-19) these people, who were indeed believers, did not receive the spirit until they were baptized by water. Water Baptism a requirement to enter into the kingdom of Heaven as described in(John 3:1-8).

(This next section has a lot of Scripture, So if you decide to read it just read as much as you need/want to since I know there is a lot to digest in one sitting. The reason I have to include it though, is because I would not feel that I have made full proof of my Ministry(2 timothy 4:1-2, 5; 1 Thess 5:21; 2 timothy 3:16-17) if I did not use the full sword/word of God(Ephesians 6:17).

2. The Lord has said that we must be born again by both water and spirit in order to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven(1 Peter 1:23; Colossians 3:10; 2 Corinthians 5:15-17; Titus 3:5; John 1:11-13; 1 John 5:5-8) that in order to be saved we must be born again in Christ buried with him in baptism(Romans 6:3-11; John 3:2-7; Galatians 2:19-20; Colossians 2:10-15,19-23) and raised up into life(Romans 6:4) by water, and Spirit, by Christ's blood(Hebrews 9:11-28; Hebrews 10:1-21; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25; 1 Peter 1:2, 19; Hebrews 13:11-13,20; Hebrews 12:24; 1 John 1:7; Collossians 2:14-15) so that our body of sin will be made dead(Romans 6:1-11; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 8:9-14) as we are made dead to sin. For once we believe on Christ(John 3:3,15-18,35-36; Acts 16:31-33; John 6:47; John 5:24; John 14:1; Romans 10:8-9; Hebrews 11:6; Acts 10:43; 1 John 5:4-13; Mark 16:16) we should repent of our sins(Luke 24:45-47; Acts 2:36-39; Luke 3:2-4,18-21; Matt 4:17; Revelation 3:19; Acts 17:30; Luke 15:7,10; Mark 1:4,15; Luke 5:32; Matt 9:13; Acts 8:10-19; Acts 10:43, 48; Acts 19:5; Acts 22:16; 1 John 1:8-10; Acts 13:24) and be Baptized(Galatians 3:26-27; Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38, 41; Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21 ; Acts 22:16; John 3:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Acts 19:4; Acts 10:48; Mark 1:4; Acts 8:36-39; Acts 16:31-33) in Christ's name(Acts 4:10-12; Acts 10:48; Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Acts 19:5) for the remission of sins. We are saved by Faith alone, but we are justified by both faith and works(James 2:14-26; 1 John 3:17-18) because if we have faith we will keep the commandments of the Lord(Revelation 14:12-13; John 14:15-21) and do his works for Faith without works is dead(James 2:17,20,22,24,26).

____________________________________________________________________

1. The Thief on the Cross died before the New covenant was even implemented.
2. He did not go to heaven but to the grave. I don't know where exactly you stand on the subject so here is a short study on it.
" 1. Christ and the thief went to heaven when they died.
Now when we look at the verse,

Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This makes sense when taken at face value not looking at the rest of scripture. When we do though we see the error in this line of thinking. When Christ died he did not go to heaven he went to sheol/the grave.

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:9-10
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


We know that he didn’t ascend until mid or late morning because he appeared to Mary after she left his grave and still had yet to ascend.

John 20:16-17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


After speaking with her he ascended and then reappeared to the disciples and told them to touch him.(John 20:19-28). So it is obvious this line of thinking cannot be the case.


The other two ways people try to use it are basically the same with only a minor difference. One believes that when he said this he was referring to the day of judgement(1st way) and that there is a inspired comma. The second believes that he was referring not to judgment day and the resurrection but to sunday when he finally ascended, and they may or may not have a special comma. The answer to both of these is the same.

In the original greek there was no punctuation so it would read:
43 And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee Today shalt thou be with me in paradise


So we can clearly see that it is Friday that he is referring to, and where did he go on Friday. The answer is sheol/the grave. And the thief he spoke to went there the same day as him. Paradise is the Place thought by the ancient Jews to be the place where the righteous souls went when they died.

Paradise- Paradeisos 3857
3. The part of hell which was thought to be the abode of the souls of the pious until the resurrection.

Now we know that even today the dead still sleep(Acts 2:27-31, 1 Peter 3:18-19, 2 Peter 2:4, Psalm 16:10, Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6,1 Thessalonians 4:13) and none have risen except for Christ. No man is resurrected except they be a part of the first or second resurrection.( 1 Thess 4:13-17, Acts 7:59-60, 1 Corinthians 15:6, 1 Corinthians 15:18-23, Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 20:4-6)"

 

[Foxfyre]

You think, I know.

Well I compliment me on your certainty of the mind of God. (Just teasing a bit.) I do not claim any such certainty so I prefer to qualify my point of view a bit when it comes to that.

 

[Acts2:38]

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved.

You are not the first to think this, nor will you be the last. This type of thinking is flawed logic. Most everyone also does not understand that the word "believeth" is actually a verb here. This means that it is an action word. You have to do something, there is a condition. It is not believe in the English word use, it is written and brought over from the Koine Greek "pisteuō"

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So look at this verse. Read it. Now let me direct your attention to this and make my example and point.

Example:
Matthew 26
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Now look at the bold underline words I pointed out here. And now to my point...

Can you use meat and soda for communion? How about potatoes and milk? Chocolate and water?

There is something called the "law of exclusion".

Matthew didn't say we couldn't use potatoes and milk right? Well why do we not use it in communion? Because we are directed in what we should do, use the break (unleavened) and grape juice (fruit of the vine). The law of exclusion is quite simple. And it is not acceptable to use anything else other than what was stated.

Here is another example:
" Do your homework and win a prize". Did I really have to add "don't do it and you will have no prize"? No. Just by me saying "do your homework and win a prize", automatically implies that if you do not, you will have no prize.

This concept is quite simple. Baptism is actually necessary and is a command.

Baptism is actually the ONLY way you can receive remission of sins and get the Holy Spirit... See Acts 2:38

John 14:15
Automatically implies that if you do not do His commands, you do not love Him

Same here in John 15:14 What is the opposite of this verse? Did John really have to record the opposite, or can you get the point yourself without him having to record the opposite?

See below how I respond to this other poster about the Thief on the cross with Jesus. It is so simple it will blow your mind.

Some people are unable to get baptized immediately (or at all, like the thief on the cross next to Jesus [Luke 23:39-43]). I think that it is very important for those who are able to do so.

It is very important also to realize when the New testament laws begin (for lack of a better word now) and when the Old testament laws ended. I say this kindly, you seemed to have missed this part entirely.

Was Jesus alive still while He said the thief was saved?

Obviously you will have to answer yes.

Therefore, was the Old testament law still in effect?

AHHHHHH. And therein lies what you missed.

The New testament didn't even begin yet since Christ was not dead buried and raised yet.

Therefore, Christ, being God in the flesh, could have that power to actually tell the thief he was saved without needing the thief to be baptized. Old laws were still in effect since Christ did not die on the cross just yet at that time.

And that is the part you overlooked. Once Christ died, people needed to follow the New testament, aka get baptized according to gospel command

Galatians 3:26-27

ONLY those baptized are IN CHRIST.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

Is water baptism for salvation?

No. I do not believe water baptism is for salvation, either. But it is important spiritually for us as a part of our walk with God, because it is an answer or a pledge of having a clear conscience before God. Even if one can get a fellow believer to baptize them in a river or bathtub, that is all it would take to be water baptized.

Anyways, 1 Peter 3:21 makes it clear that baptism is not for salvation.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21) (KJV).

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3:21) (HCSB).
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The words "filth of the flesh" is in reference to sin. How do we know? 2 Corinthians 7:1 uses similar wording and it is obvious to the reader based on the context that it is referring to sin.

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).
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So basically Peter is saying, baptism does also save us, not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin), but baptism saves us in making a pledge to God that we have a clean conscience before Him. When two or more are gathered in His name, we know that He is among us. Baptism is a witness of our faith to God among the body of Christ that we are saved.​

What about Mark 16:16 that says that we are saved by baptism?

I believe Mark 16:16 is talking about spirit baptism and not water baptism. John the Baptist said,

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" (Matthew 3:11).
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While this did refer to Pentecost, being baptized in the Spirit also refers to every other believer after Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 12 says,

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we beJews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13).​

What about the following words of Jesus? "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5):

This is in reference to being born again by the Word of God (i.e. the Holy Scriptures). For the Bible talks about how "water" is related to the Word (i.e. Scripture).

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word." (Psalms 119:9).

18 "Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart." (Matthew 13:18-19).

"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Matthew 13:23).

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17).
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So we can conclude that water baptism is not for salvation, but it is an important part of our walk with God, though.

I hope my expounding on these verses were helpful for you.

Blessings to you in the Lord.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

 

[Not David]

The Bible says:
Acts 2:38
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 3:21 NIV
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Plus, the Bible doesn't say that Baptism is a lovely sign of obedience. However, people always twist the Bible to justify their ideologies.