Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

[thecolorsblend]

Although God was not going to use him in the body of his Son, He will still be raised up by the Spirit of his son on the last day.

2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Lovely but not what I asked.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross? There's a sort of obvious explanation for that. Rather blunt, in fact. Why didn't he come off the cross?

 

[PaulCyp1]

If "born of water" and simply "born" mean the same thing, why would Jesus bother to say "born of water"? Also, why would Jesus bother saying that a person has to be born (in other words, has to exist) before they can be saved? Kind of self-evident, don't you think? Also, one does not receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of biological birth. If we did, every person on Earth would have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which case there would be no reason to speak of "receiving" the Holy Spirit. When Jesus spoke of simultaneously being born of water and of the spirit, He was obviously speaking of Baptism, which is what the Christian Church has taught for 2,000 years. God obviously has the option of saving someone who never had the possibility to be baptized, like the criminal on the cross. However, He also made it completely clear that one of the usual requirements for salvation is Baptism.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Lovely but not what I asked.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross? There's a sort of obvious explanation for that. Rather blunt, in fact. Why didn't he come off the cross?

Jesus himself was fulfilling the work of God by dying on that cross. Was he then going to come down from the cross and disobey God to baptized him?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Jesus himself was fulfilling the work of God by dying on that cross. Was he then going to come down from the cross and disobey God to baptized him?

That isn't what I asked. Let's try staying on target here.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross?

 

[Strong in Him]

Re O.P - no, baptism isn't a requirement for salvation.
It's something you may choose to do as soon as possible after becoming a Christian, to publicly demonstrate your faith and the new life you have in Christ. But you are, and will be, saved first.

 

[Matthew13:9]

That isn't what I ask. Let's try staying on target here.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross?

Do you not know the book of the law? he himself acknowledges that he is worthy of death: but the gift of God is eternal life through faith of Jesus.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Do you not know the book of the law? he himself acknowledges that he is worthy of death: but the gift of God is eternal life through faith of Jesus.

Answer my question.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross?

 

[Matthew13:9]

Re O.P - no, baptism isn't a requirement for salvation.
It's something you may choose to do as soon as possible after becoming a Christian, to publicly demonstrate your faith and the new life you have in Christ. But you are, and will be, saved first.

You child of man, when will you stop perverting the right way of God.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Answer my question.

Why didn't the thief come down from the cross?

Answer that question or don't bother replying. Thanks!

I have given you right answers but you can't believe it.

I will ask you this, and if you answer me, I will tell you why he did not get baptized. How would he come down from the cross?

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[Rubiks]

The "born of water" passage refers to natural birth.

The grammar of Romans 6 unambiguously states that baptism effectually saves, although this says nothing about how people were saved before Jesus.

 

[Matthew13:9]

You've answered exactly nothing. You've written a bunch of flowery, lyrical posts as though you're composing the fifth gospel, and in the process dodged the issue again and again. It's not a question of what I will or won't believe. It's a matter of your refusal to answer a simple question.

But now that you've somewhat done so...

That's the entire point. He couldn't come down from the cross.

So pointing to thief on the cross as exemplary of anything is wrongheaded. His story is not normative. Exceptions can be made and the thief on the cross is undeniably an exceptional case.

Nevertheless, baptism remains the normative means of salvation.

If he couldn't, how then could he be baptized? It was God's plan that he died that way.

You've answered exactly nothing. You've written a bunch of flowery, lyrical posts as though you're composing the fifth gospel, and in the process dodged the issue again and again. It's not a question of what I will or won't believe. It's a matter of your refusal to answer a simple question.

But now that you've somewhat done so...

That's the entire point. He couldn't come down from the cross.

So pointing to thief on the cross as exemplary of anything is wrongheaded. His story is not normative. Exceptions can be made and the thief on the cross is undeniably an exceptional case.

Nevertheless, baptism remains the normative means of salvation.

A testament is a force after men are dead.

Without baptism there is no salvation. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Now Go and Twist those flowery words you child of man.

 

[thecolorsblend]

If he couldn't, how then could he be baptized? It was God's plan that he died that way.

A testament is a force after men are dead.

Without baptism there is no salvation. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. Now Go and Twist those flowery words you child of man.

Oh, wow...

 

[eleos1954]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

If one believe getting Baptized will save them ... no wrong thinking Jesus saves.

Whats the point of being Baptized? Because He asks us to. Why? Baptism is public ... ie one or more person ... one can not baptize themselves. That is part of it. For the individual it is them personally making covenant with Jesus (I will follow you). Now can they later break that covenant. Yes.

God Bless.

 

[Strong in Him]

<edit>

God sent Jesus to become man, die on the cross for us so that we would be reconciled to him. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29, the only way to the Father, John 14:6 and the only name by which we can be saved, Acts of the Apostles 4:12. It is God's will that everyone who comes to Jesus should be saved, John 6:40.
Jesus gives salvation and eternal life; nobody and no-one else. Jesus alone saves. Baptism doesn't.
Baptism is what we do to confess our salvation and faith in our Saviour. We cannot confess our faith and give Christian testimony unless we have been first saved.

 

[redleghunter]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

I don’t think we can break the “Golden Thread” so to speak.

We are dead in our trespasses, God makes us alive, we hear the Gospel, we respond in faith and repentance, we are baptized and equipped for service.

 

[Matthew13:9]

God sent Jesus to become man, die on the cross for us so that we would be reconciled to him. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29, the only way to the Father, John 14:6 and the only name by which we can be saved, Acts of the Apostles 4:12. It is God's will that everyone who comes to Jesus should be saved, John 6:40.
Jesus gives salvation and eternal life; nobody and no-one else. Jesus alone saves. Baptism doesn't.
Baptism is what we do to confess our salvation and faith in our Saviour. We cannot confess our faith and give Christian testimony unless we have been first saved.

Furthermore, to come to Jesus is to call upon him for mercy acknowledging your sins in the fear of him which is in the fear of God: and this was done long ago when people being baptized in his name.

 

[Matthew13:9]

I don’t think we can break the “Golden Thread” so to speak.

We are dead in our trespasses, God makes us alive, we hear the Gospel, we respond in faith and repentance, we are baptized and equipped for service.

We are dead in our sins in the old man. We hear the word of God through the gospel, we respond by faith and the Spirit of God in his Son makes us alive in the resurrection of his Son, the new man: through water baptism.

 

[Andy centek]

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1Peter3:21

At the time of Noah the world was cleansed with water. Next the world will be cleansed with fire. As it was in the days of Lot.

 

[Strong in Him]

<staff edit>

I have been a Christian for years - born again, baptised by immersion and filled with the Spirit.

It is against forum rules to say that someone is not a Christian.