Is anything required on our part, anything at all...? Or not...?

[Neogaia777]

But did God predestine those who would make that choice or that response though, long ago...?

Like your post and words though...

God Bless!

And if he did predestine those who would, he must have also predestined those who would not as well, right...?

And why would that be, and what about them...?

What becomes of them, and why are they even...? "are", I guess you could say, or "exist" right now, ect, they're reason for being right now, ect, in the first place, ect...?

God Bless!

 

[Gabriel12]

I don’t think God really chose anyone to fall from Him. By knowing the future does that mean you create it. Or just know it. His perception of the world is worse than our own because he sees where we are going to fall.like he knew Cain would kill Able. But does that make him a murderer. No. So who’s to say he choose righteousness or unrighteousness before our birth. What if he is the way to righteousness which everyone is available to. EVERYONE.

 

[Dave L]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

God Bless!

Paul says we are a new creature when saved. So to me it's like God changing a dog into a cat, but the cat must choose to act like a cat. Believers act like believers because the are believers.

 

[Toro]

In short, yes and no.

Do we have to do something... absolutely. Is it our "work" that saves us... no.

However in this case the "work" is about focusing on Jesus. Abiding in Him and He in us. A relationship.

The work we must do is work on our relationship to Christ. Good works will never save us.... only our realationship to Him. His work is our salvation, our work is to focus on Him.

As we focus on Him He changes us not directly on the external but the internal, once He changes the interior by renewing our heart and our minds... THEN the external becomes clean as a byproduct of the internal renewal, because an apple tree can not bare an orange.. ot can only bare an apple.

Same with a good or bad tree, IF our heart is renewed and made new in Christ then our will, will be the will of the Father that can bare only good fruit (If we remain in Him and keep our conscience clean).

Being of flesh we also have the right to follow our own will, but when we follow our own will, a will that is born in our flesh, born from a desperately wicked heart..... our fruit will always be self serving, wicked bad fruit.

 

[fhansen]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

God Bless!

God saves us, by restoring justice, i.e. by justifying us. But we're expected to do something with that gift, to stay on board, with Him, part of the crew, serving and helping out as He does. And growing in that righteousness, certainly not ignoring it, or returning to our unrighteous state.

We're forgiven, and washed, and made new creations. Are we to mock God by acting like filthy old ones? Or are we to 'go, and sin no more', with His continued help?

"I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." Phil 3:10-14

 

[aiki]

So, all of him and none of us, right...?

How can we know the difference for sure...?

Great post and words though... Thank You...

God Bless!

"All of him"? Yes. Absolutely. He gives us life both physically and spiritually. He sustains our existence moment-by-moment. We really can do nothing without our Maker.

How can we know the difference for sure? You mean the difference between Self-effort and the natural, Spirit-motivated living I described? Well, the moment I say to myself, "I must do thus-and-so for God," the focus is off of God and upon me; the crucial thing is what I do; God will receive my effort; I am the linch-pin in my salvation and eternal destiny. This is exactly the opposite of what is actually true spiritually. God must do for me; He is the linch-pin of my eternal destiny; I am the receiver of God's enabling power and transforming work; my life is all about Him (or, it should be).

Paul distilled it all down this way:

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

As I said, in my last post, when God is my joyful preoccupation, when I am fixed upon Him and delighting in walking with Him every day, I become inevitably conformed to Him. As I "look unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of my faith," as I behold his glory, the Holy Spirit subtly but profoundly transforms my heart and mind, conforming me to the image of my Saviour. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

[devin553344]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

God Bless!

I've seen these types of questions before, going to children of God for questions about the Judgement of God. But truly only God can answer that question. He will ultimately decide who is saved Man on the other had is too disabled by our nature to answer that question. Take for example the disabled person that cannot have good works, but is a child of God and will be saved. Therefore the judgement is beyond mans comprehension as it is handle on a case by case basis according to the thoughts and hearts of the individual along with their works, weighing into it the abilities of that person or persecutions and afflictions against that person among many factors like temptation levels, etc.

Which leads me to the question, why do you ask?

I should add that I believe a born again Christian will follow the biblical teachings out of love for God our father among it with gratitude.

 

[Oldmantook]

Because if a person truly has faith in the Lord they are saved and will happily choose to do that which is righteous and Good in the Lord's sight.

For clarification, are you saying that a genuinely saved person will always choose or continue to do right no matter what? That such a person can no longer choose to believe or choose to do wrong?

 

[Dkh587]

Active/living faith, which produces obedience

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

For clarification, are you saying that a genuinely saved person will always choose or continue to do right no matter what? That such a person can no longer choose to believe or choose to do wrong?

No brother, I am not saying that.

 

[Not David]

How does that work, or what does that look like...?

How much is us and how much is Him (God)...?



What does he tell us to do, or be, or be doing, obeying, ect, "bare minimum"...?

God Bless!

Fasting, prayers and almsgiving can help you focusing on God.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

God Bless!

Salvation requires our faith and our faith alone. There isn't really a checklist for how much faith a Christian needs but basically a Christian needs to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and believe the gospel. We can do nothing to earn our salvation Christ has already done what is required for our salvation. All we can do as Christians is accept the free gift and remain in the faith for forever. Jesus IS real. That's the truth and we will all find out the truth when we die. Even the unbelievers.

Anyway... Yeah that's what's required for our salvation. To be saved we have to accept Christ as the truth and the life that he is. You can't be saved by your obedience to God or anything else. That comes after salvation.

 

[Oldmantook]

No brother, I am not saying that.

Can you please then elaborate as I've heard that argument before where people state that a genuinely saved person will always do right which I assume means that they will always persevere. Scripture never states that those who are saved will always persevere.

 

[Oldmantook]

Salvation requires our faith and our faith alone. There isn't really a checklist for how much faith a Christian needs but basically a Christian needs to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and believe the gospel. We can do nothing to earn our salvation Christ has already done what is required for our salvation. All we can do as Christians is accept the free gift and remain in the faith for forever. Jesus IS real. That's the truth and we will all find out the truth when we die. Even the unbelievers.

Anyway... Yeah that's what's required for our salvation. To be saved we have to accept Christ as the truth and the life that he is. You can't be saved by your obedience to God or anything else.

Problem is you forgot Heb 5:9.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Can you please then elaborate as I've heard that argument before where people state that a genuinely saved person will always do right which I assume means that they will always persevere. Scripture never states that those who are saved will always persevere.

We live in a body of sin and death but that does not mean we must be servants of sin. We as Christians choose to live a righteous life for the Lord, we choose not to sin. But this does not mean that we cannot sin or that we will not sin, even Peter sinned after being saved(are we greater than the Apostles)? And Paul spoke about the strong desire coming from his flesh to sin, that he struggled against within his Heart, Spirit, and Mind.

So we have the ability to sin(and sometimes we do) but we choose to do that which is righteous, even though at times we may fall short and be in need of repentance.

 

[Oldmantook]

We live in a body of sin and death but that does not mean we must be servants of sin. We as Christians choose to live a righteous life for the Lord, we choose not to sin. But this does not mean that we cannot sin or that we will not sin, even Peter sinned after being saved(are we greater than the Apostles)? And Paul spoke about the strong desire coming from his flesh to sin, that he struggled against within his Heart, Spirit, and Mind.

So we have the ability to sin(and sometimes we do) but we choose to do that which is righteous, even though at times we may fall short and be in need of repentance.

So, since we agree that believers have the ability and choice whether to sin, or not to sin. What happens to those believes who continue to choose to sin (habitual sin) and don't repent? Or are you claiming that those who sin will always repent?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

So, since we agree that believers have the ability and choice whether to sin, or not to sin. What happens to those believes who continue to choose to sin (habitual sin) and don't repent? Or are you claiming that those who sin will always repent?

They are damned. If you willfully sin until the second you die without true repentance you are damned. These are those who carry on for a time but are choked out by the cares of this world or who endure for a while but find that it is to hard to follow the Law of Christ. If they truly repent from their sins and turn from their evil ways(as true repentance brings) they will be saved. But again this not a guarantee that they will not at some future time be in need of Further repentance from sin.

So those who choose to sin until death will be damned, and those who choose to repent of their sins will be saved. It is a choice and not everyone who sins will choose to repent, and not everyone who repents will remain on the righteous path(remain in righteousness) until their dying day.

 

[Oldmantook]

They are damned. If you willfully sin until the second you die without true repentance you are damned. These are those who carry on for a time but are choked out by the cares of this world or who endure for a while but find that it is to hard to follow the Law of Christ. If they truly repent from their sins and turn from their evil ways(as true repentance brings) they will be saved. But again this not a guarantee that they will not at some future time be in need of Further repentance from sin.

So those who choose to sin until death will be damned, and those who choose to repent of their sins will be saved. It is a choice and not everyone who sins will choose to repent, and not everyone who repents will remain on the righteous path(remain in righteousness) until their dying day.

Based on what you wrote, I think we are in agreement. That is why Jn 3:16 and Heb 5:9 which stipulate both belief and obedience as the requirements for eternal life are written using present tense verbs. In other words, one must go on "believing" and continue "obeying" in order to have eternal life.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Based on what you wrote, I think we are in agreement. That is why Jn 3:16 and Heb 5:9 which stipulate both belief and obedience as the requirements for eternal life are written using present tense verbs. In other words, one must go on "believing" and continue "obeying" in order to have eternal life.

Yes, we must believe in Christ and his word and we must obey it in order to see the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Neogaia777]

Which leads me to the question, why do you ask?

I don't really know, the best answer I can give is "because I was told to, I guess"...? And I like to be in the know, and know things...

God Bless!