devin553344
I believe in the Resurrection
- Nov 10, 2015
- 3,607
- 2,249
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
Is anything required on our part, anything at all...? Or not...?
- Thread starter Neogaia777
- Start date
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Oh, and, also so that I might be able to tell other rightly and correctly as well...SuperThere are a lot of good answers in this thread I noticed.
To be able to tell and share with them the right gospel and the right truth of the good news...
God Bless!
Upvote
0
- Dec 29, 2002
- 8,167
- 3,991
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
On this thought.. I shared this now and again.. I was reading and in the margin said something to the effect..if your heart convicts you ..you will receive nothing from God. I got up and said.. I quit. I said my heart convicts me 24/7.. of sin. Now if my salvation is some how based on keeping His word.. I am lost then forever.
So I get up.. I go to reach for the door.. and THIS DOES NOT happen all the time..OH blood of JESUS How I pray wish it did. He asked me "what is righteousness?" I start to turn and said "ok ok its right standing with God". That was what I had heard. He asked "how do you get righteousness?" I said "by believing in Jesus". Again something I heard. I had to go look it up to make sure that was written. AND IT IS!... It was strange.. is was as if I could see for the 1st time.. I cried and cried.
I heard for GOD and its backed up by His word.. YET I still to this day.. have such a hard time... as man.. knowing all I have done.. and feelings and thinking..thoughts. And yet.. its FREE? NOTHING on in this earth is free. You have to work for it.. and if you dont work for it.. or take it or steal it ..its not yours. So.. there HAS to be something to this.
But the more you get to know Him.. you find.. its as if thats ALL He does is GIVE GIVE GIVE and GIVE. His ways are truly not of this world. So when I read hear some talk about this and what they believe goes in line with the worlds thinking.. its not of God. In this one area. Joel and Acts.. if you just call on His name you will be saved. Even Jesus.. when open the word..TORAH... read a verse in which He NEVER read the rest.. for HE could rightly divided it.. so.. if you just call on His name..if you just believe who He said He was.. came in the flesh.. died for the worlds sins.. was buried rose the 3rd day.. the only way to the Father.. if thats all you ever hear and believe.. your saved. He does not lie. AS I read and understand it
So I get up.. I go to reach for the door.. and THIS DOES NOT happen all the time..OH blood of JESUS How I pray wish it did. He asked me "what is righteousness?" I start to turn and said "ok ok its right standing with God". That was what I had heard. He asked "how do you get righteousness?" I said "by believing in Jesus". Again something I heard. I had to go look it up to make sure that was written. AND IT IS!... It was strange.. is was as if I could see for the 1st time.. I cried and cried.
I heard for GOD and its backed up by His word.. YET I still to this day.. have such a hard time... as man.. knowing all I have done.. and feelings and thinking..thoughts. And yet.. its FREE? NOTHING on in this earth is free. You have to work for it.. and if you dont work for it.. or take it or steal it ..its not yours. So.. there HAS to be something to this.
But the more you get to know Him.. you find.. its as if thats ALL He does is GIVE GIVE GIVE and GIVE. His ways are truly not of this world. So when I read hear some talk about this and what they believe goes in line with the worlds thinking.. its not of God. In this one area. Joel and Acts.. if you just call on His name you will be saved. Even Jesus.. when open the word..TORAH... read a verse in which He NEVER read the rest.. for HE could rightly divided it.. so.. if you just call on His name..if you just believe who He said He was.. came in the flesh.. died for the worlds sins.. was buried rose the 3rd day.. the only way to the Father.. if thats all you ever hear and believe.. your saved. He does not lie. AS I read and understand it
Upvote
0
aiki
Regular Member
May I suggest that it isn't the magnitude of one's faith that is important but the type of faith? A saving faith, for example, is different in type from intellectual faith. A saving faith anticipates change, it expects corresponding behaviour to arise from what one is exercising faith in. As James put it: "Faith without works is dead." Intellectual faith, in contrast, merely assents to a given truth being true. There is no intention in intellectual faith to go beyond this assent and conform one's behaviour to that in which one is exercising faith. This is not a faith that has a saving effect.
Amen!
Which obedience is fulfilled, first and foremost, by obeying the Gospel through which Christ becomes the Author of our eternal salvation.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
No. The word "obey" in Heb 5:9 is hypakouousin which is a present tense participle. It does not refer to a past moment in time when one first obeyed the gospel by which people are saved. The word refers to an ongoing state of obedience more accurately translated as OBEYING. Eternal salvation is only promised to those believers who continue on in obeying God. Those who don't, don't have eternal life.
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Yeah, but what do you mean by "obeying God"...? What exactly are you referring to...? Or what "way" IOW's...? Or "obeying what" his "literal word for word and letter for letter commands and commandments"...? Or, "another way"...? (that has the same, or can have or achieve the same goal, and/or aim, in the end) (and may be the only real true way of doing it, and/or achieving, ect)...
What exactly are you referring to...?
Also/and what about "obeying his voice"...? "In the moment", and in the "moments he tells you and/or speaks to you", (to do, or not do, or say, or not say, think or not think, ect)...?
God Bless!
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
Do you really not know what obeying God means? Just open the Bible and read it. It states to love the brethren, love God and your neighbor. Refrain from evil. Forgive others as God forgave you. Live according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh. Do good works that God created us to do. The Bible has commands to follow for husbands and wives, as well as children. Do not lie, do not steal, do not covet, etc, etc...what more do you need?
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Do you do this all yourself, or does God do it (in you, through you, out from you, ect)...?
Cause that's the more that I need...
God Bless!
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
And if it is the latter (and none of the former) then, "who are we" to be judges of God's "timing" not only in our own lives, but/and/or especially in another's (life) (or lives)...?
Not to mention "all the other things/times" where we judge, sometimes all too hastily, when or where maybe we really should not (judge, ect) (criticize, condemn, ect)...
Something to think about anyway...
God Bless!
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
I need to know if I am supposed to be doing some, or any, or all of it or this myself, or if I am supposed to be patient, and wait on God's timing and His part, ect...? and if His part is some or any or all of it, ect...? and if I am just supposed to be patient and wait on that, and/or maybe "rest" in that, in the meantime, or not, or "what"...?
That's the more that "I need"...
God Bless!
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Dec 13, 2015
- 5,254
- 4,227
- 37
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Married
Thank you for clarifying what I said. You put it in better words than I did.
Upvote
0
aiki
Regular Member
You misunderstand the nature of the Gospel very seriously if you think the truths that constitute it do not require us to be daily living in conformity, in obedience, to them.
In any case, I don't see how what I pointed out is lessened or denied by your observations on the tense of the word "obey." One must obey the Gospel in order for Jesus to be the Author of one's eternal salvation.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
If I understood you correctly, I thought you meant "obey" to mean a one-time moment in the past when one first "obeyed" the gospel in trusting for one's salvation. However, the Greek word in Heb 5:9 is a present tense verb meaning "obeying" indicating that a Christian must continue OBEYING God in order to have eternal life. If a believer does not continue obeying God in his walk with Him, then salvation is not assured of.
Upvote
0
I have been thinking quite a bit on this. You know the story Jesus tells us about the servant who doesn't show his slave mercy after his Lord has forgiven him. I think this means we are forgiven on the cross, but if we aren't forgiving others, Christ's forgivness won't apply for us.
It's the same with serving the Lord, if we aren't serving God, that will be held against us at the day of judgement.
Matt 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27 And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30 But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
It's the same with serving the Lord, if we aren't serving God, that will be held against us at the day of judgement.
Matt 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27 And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30 But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
I sympathize entirely with you for I can say I am in the same boat with you. God's grace enable us to resist the flesh and live holy lives but at least for me it's not easy to do. I suppose it's not meant to be easy as we have to die to ourselves which goes against our human nature but despite being given a new nature, we try to keep jumping off the altars of self-sacrifice. I am beginning to understand that for myself after years of struggle with this that I need to come to the end of myself - kind of like addicts who hit rock bottom and realize they hate it and can't live like that anymore. Same thing with tolerating sin in our lives as we have to hate it and not tolerate it anymore. The good news is that God gives grace to the humble in pursuit of Him.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
...which parallels Jesus' warning in Matt 6:15 that if we don't forgive others, the Father will not forgive us.
Upvote
0
S.O.J.I.A.
Dynamic UNO
- Nov 6, 2016
- 4,280
- 2,641
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
we're required to love God by following His commandments and if you truly belong to Him, that won't be burdensome.
john 14:15
1 john 5:2-3
john 14:15
1 john 5:2-3
Upvote
0
aiki
Regular Member
Hebrews 5:9
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
As soon as you make a believer's salvation at all conditional on their behaviour, you are espousing a works-salvation doctrine which the Bible flatly and explicitly contradicts. (Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) In light of the extremely clear and direct way Scripture rules out works as a means of salvation, it is amazing to me that you are trying to promote works-salvation here. Whatever Hebrews 5:9 means, it simply cannot mean a believer's works secure their salvation. Such a conclusion is denied by Scripture.
What's in view in the verse? The "perfected" Christ as the Author of eternal salvation. The verse connects "obedience" to him to salvation. But since Scripture denies a works-salvation meaning here, "obey" must refer to something else. In what way must a person be obedient to Christ that he might be their eternal salvation - but without making that obedience a work? Scripture answers this again and again: by the exercise of faith in him as Saviour and Lord. (John 3:16; John 12:36; John 14:1; John 14:11; John 20:31; Acts 8:37, etc.) Is this trusting in Christ as Saviour a work? It is certainly acting in obedience to Christ's command. A helpful excerpt from Kenneth Keathley's book "Salvation and Sovereignty; A Molinist Approach" clarifies this matter:
"...all works are actions, but not all actions are works. Faith is an action in the sense that it involves an act of the will, but it is not a work. We exercise faith to receive redemption for the precise reason that we cannot do anything to earn salvation. Faith is not a meritorious deed..."
And so it is we read in Scripture that the "just shall live by faith," (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38) and "without faith it is impossible to please God," (Hebrews 11:6) and "we walk by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 5:7) It is in this way that we obey Jesus Christ, the Author of our eternal salvation, not by doing good deeds.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
Since when does Scripture deny a "works based salvation?" Did Jesus forget that when he sternly judges the 7 churches in Revelation according to their works, or lack thereof? Was James wrong to write in Js 2:24 that we are JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not by faith alone? Works of themselves do not secure our salvation but are the evidence of it. James wrote that faith without works is dead. Do you think you as a believer can be chronically disobedient and still be saved? Yes or No?
Upvote
0
