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Featured Is anything required on our part, anything at all...? Or not...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

    Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

    Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

    Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

    Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

    Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

    God Bless!
     
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  2. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    To be saved from the wrath of God there is something you must do.

    "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:30,31

    Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." Rom 4:4-8

    "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
     
  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Do we have to "work" to "keep and maintain", or hold on to, and/or build and/or grow, or grow up, our faith and/or belief in him...? (for a time maybe)...? "At all"...? (or for a time)...? Or not...? Or not...?

    God Bless!
     
  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Have to work to maintain our salvation status? No. Salvation is by works. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

    And it couldn't be said that one "has been saved" from a future event - the wrath of God - if that status could change. For if that were the case one could only say "You have the possibility of being saved from going to hell, if (fill in the blank)", which is not the rhetoric the scriptures use.

    Jesus indicated that one's fate regarding condemnation is finalized upon coming to faith. "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

    And while "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 and those who really belong to the faith endure to the end, as John says, "if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us" 1John 2:19, there remains a degree of cooperation involved in maturing in Christ and earning rewards above and beyond salvation (which itself is free). (1Cor 3:11-15)

    As for "all time" that expression is kind of used at the end of Romans 8 where Paul's preaching about eternal security.

    Rom 8:38,39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Notice the two phrases I put in bold. If the future has no impact on changing our salvation status, therefore Once Saved, Always Saved. Secondly there are those who content that we can cause ourselve to be separated from the love of God, yet it says that nothing in all creation can do so. And since we created beings, that would include us as well.
     
  5. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    When salvation means rescue from the judgment that comes because of sin, there is no works to get that forgiveness. it is offered freely for everyone. However, eternal life is offered as s gift for righteous.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23

    If person is righteous, he is without sin.

    He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
    1 John 3:7-10

    So, it is not really about what we do, but what we are. If we are righteous, we do righteousness. But it is not the works that matter, but the mind that produces the good works. If we have that wisdom of the just, right understanding, we do what is good and right, because we know it is good and right, not to earn eternal life. And that I think is the reason why eternal life is for righteous. They want freely what is good and right and therefore they can have the life, they will know how to use it well. If unrighteous would get eternal life, he would turn it to eternal suffering for all.
     
  6. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    We are saved by faith alone, but if we refuse to do that which is Righteous and Good(charity for example) then our faith is dead being alone.

    Faith saves, and works provide a justification for the salvation that comes from faith.

    John 15:16
    16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    Matt 7:18-20
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, does it depend on us doing or choosing to do what is righteous and/or good...?

    Does our doing the works of or that come by or through faith...? Is our being saved dependent upon us choosing to do it that (the works of, or that come by, faith) our choosing it (faith or the works that come by faith) in any way or not...?

    God Bless!
     
  8. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    No it is not dependent on anything but belief on Christ, once we have faith we are saved.

    After we are saved we are called to do the Lord's work(joyfully), if we refuse to do this then we are an unprofitable servant/tree that will be cast into the fire.

    Our justification(which to be clear is not salvation) comes from doing the Lord's good work and it shows that we are true servants of the Lord who were saved by faith.

    So the answer is no.

    Because if a person truly has faith in the Lord they are saved and will happily choose to do that which is righteous and Good in the Lord's sight.
     
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Do we have to do any work for that faith...? (to have it, keep it, maintain it, or whatever)...? And we have to Love as well right...? And is "any of this" (faith or love) of any of our choosing and/or work at all, or not...?

    Again, Is that in any way dependent upon us at all, or our choosing (it/them) at all or not...? Or not...? What if they are saved, but not called or destined or predestined to the Lord's work...?

    One is justified when they are saved, or from the moment they are saved, and saved when they are justified or from the moment of being justified and/or declared righteous and/or saved, are they not...?

    And, again, "Our choosing to do the Lord's work"...? Or not...?

    Well, then, I hate to say this but, you might be contradicting yourself then...?

    In this much I agree...

    God Bless!
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What about those not made by God for Him(self) or His works...? Or not made good, or created or predestined to be good but bad...?

    "Why are they here" basically...? What is their purpose and function and reason for being...?

    God Bless!
     
  11. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Brother it is difficult to understand all your questions with you way you are writing them. Could you rephrase them, or simplify them?
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You said: "Works provide a justification for the salvation that comes from faith."

    Are you saying that "some" or certain works that "we do or choose" provide a justification for our faith... Or show that our faith is true, just, good and genuine...? Or not...?

    God Bless!
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Sorry, I'll try to do better, or make them clearer, K...?

    God Bless!
     
  14. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Yes they provide a justification for the gift of salvation that comes by faith.

    Justification by works simply being an outward act(A righteous act) that shows our inward faith.

    The work we do are acts that show that our faith is true and that we ourselves are righteous according to God's word.

    I hope that I explained that well enough brother.
     
  15. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    Thank you brother.
     
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Is that in any way due to us at all...? Or not...?

    Is that in any way due to us at all...? Or not...?

    That "we do" or "God does" (in us, and/or through us)...?

    And I hope I was a little bit clearer this time...?

    God Bless!
     
  17. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    The work we do(the outward justification) is by our own hands(James 2). Though we are told this is the Lord working through us as well(Philippians 2:13).

    So the justification is us, and at the same time the Lord working through us.

    The salvation we receive is a free gift from the Lord. It is not by our own hands.

    You were brother, thank you.
     
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So which is it...?

    And, again, this seems like a contradiction to the above (at the top, where I asked you "which is it")...?

    So, "is it"...? (a contradiction or not)...?

    Doesn't Justification and Salvation go "hand in hand" though...? For how can you have one without the other...?

    Oh, and, your welcome...

    God Bless!
     
  19. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    It is both brother, it is us and it is the Lord working through us. I know how that may sound brother. But that is way scripture says it is.
    The example is when the Apostles preached by the Spirit and worked miracles it was the Lord working through them, but is was their own hands that did the work.
    Acts 19:
    11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
    12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

    1 Cor 15:10
    10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

    They go hand in hand. Salvation without justification by works is dead being alone(James 2:15-17). Though again there is a distinction between the two.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  20. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary.”

    ― Jonathan Edwards
     
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