Is anything required on our part, anything at all...? Or not...?

[1213]

What about those not made by God for Him(self) or His works...? Or not made good, or created or predestined to be good but bad...?

"Why are they here" basically...? What is their purpose and function and reason for being...?

God Bless!

I think no one is created or predestined to be evil. Some people choose evilness by themselves. And I believe the reason why they are he re is that God loves all and wants to give this opportunity also for those who hate Him.


But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

 

[Neogaia777]

It is both brother, it is us and it is the Lord working through us. I know how that may sound brother. But that is way scripture says it is.

How much and what though (is what I'm trying to figure out)...? How and and what is our part, and God's part, ect...?

The example is when the Apostles preached by the Spirit and worked miracles it was the Lord working through them, but is was their own hands that did the work.

Was it by any kind of choice they made all by themselves though, or was it from a compelling or compulsion from within, or what they felt was God (H.S.) speaking to them all the time in everything they did (from within) and it was, or would it may have been, or did they feel that, it was "all God and none of them", or not...?

Acts 19:
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

Again God doing it through Paul, not Paul all by himself, ever...

1 Cor 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Yet "not him (Paul) but God in him doing it" (in and through him, ect) (laboring, ect) is basically what he just said...

They go hand in hand. Salvation without justification by works is dead being alone(James 2:15-17). Though again there is a distinction between the two.

We are not justified by works, and it is not our work, or works, that justify us at all...

If we do things or any works, it is just "us doing what we ought to (and maybe feel or felt compelled) to do", and means "nothing at all" really...

We are already justified when we are saved, and anything, any kind of works we do beyond that get us nothing, and may even all be part of "our own vanity"...

Luke 17:7-10- "But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty (or what we ought to have) done or do.


So, we can not and should not take any pride or credit at all, or boast at all, for any of the (even) "good works" "we have done", nor step into any kind of "trap" thinking those are what justifies at all either...

It is only what we ought to have and should have done by and in proportion to the Grace (mercy, ect) shown to us and given to us by God... One translation says "we are good for nothing slaves, what we have done is what we (only) ought to have done", ect...

God Bless!

 

[Tayla]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

It requires repentance from sin, receiving Christ's redemptive gift through faith, and then after that, avoiding mortal sins.

 

[Neogaia777]

It requires repentance from sin,

Ongoing repentance from sin in this life... Or not...?

receiving Christ's redemptive gift through faith, and then after that, avoiding mortal sins.

All sin is the same, (in God's eyes)... you fall short ever, in one area or more ever, you are "guilty of them all", and beyond that, are "responsible for them all", in God's eyes...

Or do you suppose that if you are always successful in avoiding all "mortal sins" (or "whatever") always, till the end of you life after being saved, does that keep you saved, or in a saved state, and/or save you...?

Do you suppose that Oh man...?

God Bless!

 

[JAYPT]

There is nothing is scripture that tells us that there is anything beyond belief required for salvation. This is the entirely the work of God. We are chosen, meaning that He chose us first and it was up to us to respond. If you look at James regarding the "works" or work, what was it that they did? Abraham believed God and put Isaac on the altar. Rehab believed and let the spies in. That was the "work". For us the work is opening the door to Christ and letting him in. There is nothing we can do so that no man may boast. Now the bible speaks of knowing those by their fruits, not their works. What is the fruit? The fruit of the Spirit, many people after salvation produce good fruit, much more abundantly than before, is this works? No.

Now Acts tells that God is not served by human hands, so we cannot do anything to get or keep our salvation. As far as being created evil, no, however Adam chose to disobey God and thus sin came into the world, and we inherently are all born into sin. It is our choice to choose and love God or not and for that there will be consequences.

As far as sin is concerned, I wouldnt be all that worried about it. That is the work of the evil one, to convict you and tell you how "bad" you are. If you are saved, you are righteous, how much? 100% righteous. The bible says that once you are saved, God has taken out your heart of stone and replaced it with a new heart, one of flesh. So you are obedient from the core even though you may to choose poorly from time to time. Trying to avoid "mortal" sin is not wise, they are all "mortal" as the punishment for sin is death, not a kick in the butt. Most importantly Jesus himself says that we are His and no one can snatch us from His hand. Salvation is for life, not something that needs maintenance.

 

[Not David]

We cooperate with God for our salvation. God is like a doctor with a cure but if you don't do what God tells you to do then diseases (sins) will kill you.

 

[Neogaia777]

We cooperate with God for our salvation.

How does that work, or what does that look like...?

How much is us and how much is Him (God)...?

God is like a doctor with a cure but if you don't do what God tells you to do then diseases (sins) will kill you.

What does he tell us to do, or be, or be doing, obeying, ect, "bare minimum"...?

God Bless!

 

[JAYPT]

So the bible says we are obedient from the heart, we are already are dying, the amount of your sins have nothing to do with whether you die, it is inevitable. We are not beating death or slowing it by "how much" we sin. We are not beating death, its coming for all of us.

But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:17‭-‬18 NASB

 

[aiki]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

See Philippians 2:12-13. We work out only what God has first worked in.

See also John 15:4-5. Does a branch struggle and strain to remain in the vine? Does it work mightily to suck the life-giving sap of the vine into itself? Does it strain to produce fruit from itself? No. It is the vine that produces the branch and that feeds it so that it might grow and be fruitful. This all happens very naturally, without apparent strain and struggle, so long as the branch remains in intimate connection with the vine.

 

[Neogaia777]

So the bible says we are obedient from the heart, we are already are dying, the amount of your sins have nothing to do with whether you die, it is inevitable. We are not beating death or slowing it by "how much" we sin. We are not beating death, its coming for all of us.

But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:17‭-‬18 NASB

1 Corinthians 15:24-26:

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

See Philippians 2:12-13. We work out only what God has first worked in.

See also John 15:4-5. Does a branch struggle and strain to remain in the vine? Does it work mightily to suck the life-giving sap of the vine into itself? Does it strain to produce fruit from itself? No. It is the vine that produces the branch and that feeds it so that it might grow and be fruitful. This all happens very naturally, without apparent strain and struggle, so long as the branch remains in intimate connection with the vine.

Is there any self-effort on our part (that is required) (from us) "at all"...?

God Bless!

 

[JAYPT]

1 Corinthians 15:24-26:

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

God Bless!

Not sure I follow?

 

[Neogaia777]

Not sure I follow?

Just about death, how it will be the last enemy or thing to be done away with, or that will be done away with...

God Bless!

 

[JAYPT]

Just about death, how it will be the last enemy or thing to be done away with, or that will be done away with...

God Bless!

Yes, cant wait....

 

[aiki]

Is there any self-effort on our part (that is required) (from us) "at all"...?

Self-effort? No. To the degree we add our own human effort to God's work in and through us, to that same degree we foul what He is doing. The Holy Spirit doesn't make a deal with us: He'll give us 95% of what we need to be godly but we must chip in 5% from our own human resources. This is entirely unbiblical.

Like begets like, you see. A dog begets a dog, a cat begets a cat, and a duck begets a duck. This is true of you and I, as well. We can only beget more of ourselves. There is only One who can beget godliness in us and that is, of course, God.

Does this mean I sit on my hands, waiting for God to make a puppet of me? No. Rather, as I remain in intimate fellowship with Christ, delighting in God, I find myself naturally and unconsciously acting in accord with His will. When Christ is my life, not just my Saviour, when he is the constant preoccupation of my mind and heart, he is inevitably and profoundly manifested in the character of my living. This is not a tearing, laborious, teeth-gritting process, but as natural a transformation as a branch in the vine growing and producing fruit.

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 3:4
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Philippians 1:21
21 For to me, to live is Christ...

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

 

[Neogaia777]

Self-effort? No. To the degree we add our own human effort to God's work in and through us, to that same degree we foul what He is doing. The Holy Spirit doesn't make a deal with us: He'll give us 95% of what we need to be godly but we must chip in 5% from our own human resources. This is entirely unbiblical.

Like begets like, you see. A dog begets a dog, a cat begets a cat, and a duck begets a duck. This is true of you and I, as well. We can only beget more of ourselves. There is only One who can beget godliness in us and that is, of course, God.

Does this mean I sit on my hands, waiting for God to make a puppet of me? No. Rather, as I remain in intimate fellowship with Christ, delighting in God, I find myself naturally and unconsciously acting in accord with His will. When Christ is my life, not just my Saviour, when he is the constant preoccupation of my mind and heart, he is inevitably and profoundly manifested in the character of my living. This is not a tearing, laborious, teeth-gritting process, but as natural a transformation as a branch in the vine growing and producing fruit.

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 3:4
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Philippians 1:21
21 For to me, to live is Christ...

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

So, all of him and none of us, right...?

How can we know the difference for sure...?

Great post and words though... Thank You...

God Bless!

 

[Gabriel12]

Does it (salvation, obedience or whatever) (whether or not we are saved) Does it either does, or does not, require "some kind of action and/or response" on our part doesn't it...? Or not...?

Or should we not worry and/or consider either that, or "anything at all" that we might do, or have to do and/or decide on our part...

Comes back to how much is supposed to God, and how much is supposed to be us...?

Does it truly require "nothing" (at all whatsoever from us or on our part) IOW's...?

Not that that would "save you" though maybe...? Or does it...? Or did God already dictate and choose those who would be saved (long ago) to the point where it would be absolutely "none of us" at all, but "all of Him" instead...?

Cause what would be the point, or is one even supposed to "try" for, well, "anything at all"...? Why do anything at all...?I mean, if God has already done and has "it" and "absolutely all of it", then what is the point and/or purpose of putting forth "any kind of effort" or exerting ourselves "at all" or for, or for "anything on our part"...?

God Bless!

 

[Gabriel12]

“It” does require a response. Without a response, we are Luke warm to be spit out of His mouth. Our response to what HE has done should be faith that he DID IT. You are right. We do have nothing left to DO because HE has already done it. All he asks for is faith that is it done. And that sounds like an easy task at first. But to believe wholeheartly that He is the way, the Truth and the Light is the ultimate task from us. That is our mission. To believe beyond sight and sound that He is our savior. If you want to say that is nothing. IT IS, compared to what he gave for us to have this freedom.

 

[Neogaia777]

“It” does require a response. Without a response, we are Luke warm to be spit out of His mouth. Our response to what HE has done should be faith that he DID IT. You are right. We do have nothing left to DO because HE has already done it. All he asks for is faith that is it done. And that sounds like an easy task at first. But to believe wholeheartly that He is the way, the Truth and the Light is the ultimate task from us. That is our mission. To believe beyond sight and sound that He is our savior. If you want to say that is nothing. IT IS, compared to what he gave for us to have this freedom.

But did God predestine those who would make that choice or that response though, long ago...?

Like your post and words though...

God Bless!

 

[Gabriel12]

But did God predestine those who would make that choice or that response though, long ago...?

Like your post and words though...

God Bless!