Infants in Heaven?

[water_ripple]

I'm not here to respond to people who want ten thousand proofs that two plus two equals four. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. It's not that complicated.

Neither is the mercy of God

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

You make no sense.

This makes sense: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

Aren't Christians called to spread the word of God to the unknowing?

Here's the word of God: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. You're no longer unknowing.

 

[water_ripple]

This makes sense: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

The bible is meant to be read as a whole not just by picking one piece of scripture and ignoring the rest. This makes sense

 

[water_ripple]

Here's the word of God: The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. You're no longer unknowing.

What about the mercy of God? What about the love of God? What about the sacrafice of Christ? What about all of the other scriptures? Do they exist? Do they have relevance or is one tiny piece of scripture referenced a religous dogmatic? What about suffer the little children unto me? Y would Christ say such a thing? Are His words to be ignored? Or does one piece of scripture make Christ's teaching irrelevant? WWJD? Condemm infants into everlasting fire b/c they could not ask for forgiveness? Is this the nature of Christ? Or would Christ show mercy to the little ones? Suffer the little children unto me...what if anything does this imply?

 

[armothe]

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. (Matthew 5:29).
Pluck your eye out.

-A

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

My statement all along has been that infants go to heaven when they die in infancy. Mercy, by definition, can only apply to the guilty. They go to heaven as forgiven sinners.

 

[Pseud]

My statement all along has been that infants go to heaven when they die in infancy. Mercy, by definition, can only apply to the guilty. They go to heaven as forgiven sinners.

In your opinion based on your misquotation.

 

[Blindfaith]

Moderation:

I apologize for not catching this thread sooner, but I was at a Conference in Chicago for 5 days and wasn't here.

This thread has gone on for 9 pages, and there has been quite a few inflammatory comments made, and this is a general unofficial warning to everyone to keep it civil, polite, and a discussion worthy of adults.

Please keep in mind that many unbelievers read these threads to maybe get some answers, and some atheists come in here to be proven right; that believers are so argumentative that their way must be the right way.

Since only believers are allowed to post in this particular forum, I'm speaking to each and every one of you: You are an ambassador for Christ. He is the ultimate authority and the Holy Spirit dwells within each one of you. Start acting like it. Make Him proud - and post in such a way that when you are on bended knee in front of Him, He can say to you, "well done, well done my servant". Keep that in mind the next time a poster irritates you. You are speaking on behalf of Jesus.

Thank you.

**for those who are blatantly inflammatory, you'll be receiving a pm from me, with an unofficial warning. If the behavior continues, it will be official very quickly.**

 

[frumanchu]

The ability to sin is all about the choice to do so. One can walk in the light with Christ or they can choose to go astray. How do I know this? B/c in the past I have. All of that of course is in the past, and I have been forgiven. If a person makes the choice to follow Christ then they can choose also to stop. If infants are sinners then Y in the world would Christ say that unless one becomes like them that they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven? You make no sense. Infants cannot make a conscience choice of accepting Christ or rejecting him. They depend on the parent for survival. Do you see the paralelle here? They are innocent of the word and will of God and therefore unaccountable. Perhaps they would be accountable if God was not merciful. God expects us to grow in maturity of faith. That is Y we are called to repent and listen to His word. An infant whose life is cut short cannot grow in faith. It is impossible. God would not judge an infant who has died a flesh death for things they could not control. Infants control nothing in their life. The parent controls everything and God does not judge children for the sins of the parents.

Sin is sin. Transgressing the law is transgressing the law, whether you know the law or not. To say otherwise is to argue for relatives and not absolutes. The Biblical doctrine of original sin says that all men are sinners by nature from birth. If we were not guilty from birth, the virgin birth would not have been necessary. We are not sinners because we sin...we sin because we are sinners.

Regarding the verse in Matt 19 (and its parallels) the verse refers to the child-like faith and dependence upon God. Matt 18 sheds light on the meaning in explaining that we must be humble like children, NOT innocent like children. Anyone who has had children know that they are anything but innocent. Only bias or ignorance would see it otherwise.

That being said, salvation is of God and He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. While Scripture is not explicit, there is ample reason to believe that God can and does save infants. But it must be understood that this is an act of mercy, not one of obligation. Children are every bit in need of the blood of Christ as adults. If faith is the product of man's will alone and not God's there is no room for infant salvation without God having to make unstated exceptions to His decree of salvation by faith.

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

Anyone who has had children know that they are anything but innocent. Only bias or ignorance would see it otherwise.

And as soon as they grow teeth they start biting their big sisters. Ouch. Mean little critters! And they've been told not to repeatedly. They understand that smack on the back of the hand and that N-word. But they disobey, steal their playmate's blocks, cover-up the crime, blame it on the cat; the whole 9 yards. I don't think I'd want to be locked in a cage with a giant one year old.

 

[Plan 9]

An infant is defined as a very young child; a baby. The term is from the French and its literal meaning is that of a child who is too young to speak, much less blame anything on the cat.

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

An infant is defined as a very young child; a baby. The term is from the French and its literal meaning is that of a child who is too young to speak, much less blame anything on the cat.

Well I blame everything on the French and I'm too young to speak.

 

[frumanchu]

An infant is defined as a very young child; a baby. The term is from the French and its literal meaning is that of a child who is too young to speak, much less blame anything on the cat.

Does sin need to be observed in an outwardly expressed manner to be sin?

 

[Plan 9]

Does sin need to be observed in an outwardly expressed manner to be sin?

In terms of sin nature, no, but I think the reason why this question troubles so many people is that infants are incapable of actively sinning, or even of the same kind of cognitive activity as adults.
Adult Christians talk a lot about the commission of sins and being judged for them; it's an adult worry.

Also, protestants of my age have heard scraps here and there about the doctrine of limbo, a thoroughly confusing notion by the time it reaches us.

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

Sin, though, is "missing the mark" of moral perfection. Babies aren't morally perfect and they act in accordance with that state. Sure, they aren't capable of the same level of cognitive activity as adults but they are capable of cognitive activity - after all, they do have brains and think. They premeditate their sins and carry them out on their own mental and physical level. Disobedience to parents is observable at a very early age. As Job said, man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble.

 

[Plan 9]

Sin, though, is "missing the mark" of moral perfection. Babies aren't morally perfect and they act in accordance with that state. Sure, they aren't capable of the same level of cognitive activity as adults but they are capable of cognitive activity - after all, they do have brains and think. They premeditate their sins and carry them out on their own mental and physical level. Disobedience to parents is observable at a very early age. As Job said, man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble.

Only if crying when hungry, unhappy and needing a diaper change constitutes disobedience to parents, but it doesn't; the opposite is true. Anyone caring for infants needs to hear the three types of baby cries to take adequate care of them.

Cetain babies cognate, but very differently than we do.

the term "sin" isn't derived from an old archery term which means "missing the mark", although many people believe that.
In my modern American dictionary, what we ordinarily call "original sin" isn't even on the list of definitions of the term, which is why I posted what I did, plus blindfaith made an excellent point:

Please keep in mind that many unbelievers read these threads to maybe get some answers...

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

Please keep in mind that many unbelievers read these threads to maybe get some answers...

Are you afraid they might get the correct answer that they have been born in sin, that they sin from birth, and need to be saved?

 

[Plan 9]

Are you afraid they might get the correct answer that they have been born in sin, that they sin from birth, and need to be saved?

In order for you to explain that concept to non-Christians, you would first need to understand how they think of sin and you'll never convince anyone that babies engage in active sin from birth; I think you're just yanking our chains.

How does one preach salvation to a little baby? What Bible version should we read to newborns, Goo-Goo News For Modern Infants?

 

[Blueberry Sponge]

In order for you to explain that concept to non-Christians, you would first need to understand how they think of sin

If they don't think of sin what the Bible teaches about sin, then what they think is irrelevant.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts ... for my thoughts are not your thoughts ... for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are ... my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:7-9