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If there is "no evidence" for evolution...

DogmaHunter

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Yeah it’s probably better to just dismiss it as propaganda without ever watching it. Especially if you’ve already made up your mind about it.

If the ideas expressed therein had any kind of merrit, then you wouldn't have a need to link to a creationist youtube video, but you could just link the scientific publications directly.

Your short description says enough. It's the same nonsense as you can find in any creationist propaganda flick. I'm not exactly new to this.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Watching a movie that says God doesn’t exist would be a sin.

And watching a creationist propaganda video where they claim that all scientists are wrong and they are right, while appealing to "special revealed knowledge", is an insult to human intelligence.
 
  • Agree
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tas8831

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The movie God’s not dead made some really interesting points about this. Like how evolutionists believe that science does not jump yet the evolution of man compared to the existence of the universe shows a huge leap in progress. Evolutionists still have yet to find any missing link between man’s early evolved state to man’s present state. Also they made a good point of how the Big Bang theory would actually take place much like the Bible says creation began. If you haven’t seen the movie I suggest you check it out.
Great movie - shows that Evangelicals totally believe all of the dopey, made-up stereotypes about non-believers and intelligent people out there.

Does "God's Not Dead" provide evidence of Jehovah's existence? How Jehovah turned silicate dust into organic compounds and then into a fully formed adult human male?

I'm betting not.

Yup... great movie.
 
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tas8831

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Yeah it’s probably better to just dismiss it as propaganda without ever watching it. Especially if you’ve already made up your mind about it.

It is not a documentary.

It is a propaganda film starring washed-up D-lister Kevin Sorbo.
 
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tas8831

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Is it an anti religious movie? If it is I won’t watch it. I’m a believer which means I know God exists and I have no doubts.
Sounds like you are just afraid of the truth.
 
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tas8831

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"well substantiated, repeatable body of observation from nature and experimentation" This sounds nice to you, it just doesn't exist for "true evolution."

How?

All I see is another non-scientist pretending to understand what constitutes 'science' based on what his creationist website authors tell him.
 
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tas8831

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A dinosaur may not be able to hide in reeds that you present a picture of, but I think a dinosaur could hide in other reeds, like in the reeds of the picture that I present, and even taller reeds than these possibly.
A picture is worth a thousand words, to start with...lets not use a mis-leading picture of small reeds that doesn't support the truth that a dinosaur could hide among reeds. When large dinosaurs existed, larger reeds existed as well. What didn't exist at that time were cameras. We do have the eye-witness written account in the Book of Job, however.
LOL!

Yeah, OK....

Come up with whatever excuses you need...

Weird that you never replied to the post with this in it:

I forget now who originally posted these on this forum, but I keep it in my archives because it offers a nice 'linear' progression of testing a methodology and then applying it:

The tested methodology:

Science 25 October 1991:
Vol. 254. no. 5031, pp. 554 - 558

Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice

WR Atchley and WM Fitch

Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.

======================

Science, Vol 255, Issue 5044, 589-592

Experimental phylogenetics: generation of a known phylogeny

DM Hillis, JJ Bull, ME White, MR Badgett, and IJ Molineux
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Although methods of phylogenetic estimation are used routinely in comparative biology, direct tests of these methods are hampered by the lack of known phylogenies. Here a system based on serial propagation of bacteriophage T7 in the presence of a mutagen was used to create the first completely known phylogeny. Restriction-site maps of the terminal lineages were used to infer the evolutionary history of the experimental lines for comparison to the known history and actual ancestors. The five methods used to reconstruct branching pattern all predicted the correct topology but varied in their predictions of branch lengths; one method also predicts ancestral restriction maps and was found to be greater than 98 percent accurate.

==================================

Science, Vol 264, Issue 5159, 671-677

Application and accuracy of molecular phylogenies

DM Hillis, JP Huelsenbeck, and CW Cunningham
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Molecular investigations of evolutionary history are being used to study subjects as diverse as the epidemiology of acquired immune deficiency syndrome and the origin of life. These studies depend on accurate estimates of phylogeny. The performance of methods of phylogenetic analysis can be assessed by numerical simulation studies and by the experimental evolution of organisms in controlled laboratory situations. Both kinds of assessment indicate that existing methods are effective at estimating phylogenies over a wide range of evolutionary conditions, especially if information about substitution bias is used to provide differential weightings for character transformations.



We can ASSUME that the results of an application of those methods have merit.


Application of the tested methodology:

Implications of natural selection in shaping 99.4% nonsynonymous DNA identity between humans and chimpanzees: Enlarging genus Homo

"Here we compare ≈90 kb of coding DNA nucleotide sequence from 97 human genes to their sequenced chimpanzee counterparts and to available sequenced gorilla, orangutan, and Old World monkey counterparts, and, on a more limited basis, to mouse. The nonsynonymous changes (functionally important), like synonymous changes (functionally much less important), show chimpanzees and humans to be most closely related, sharing 99.4% identity at nonsynonymous sites and 98.4% at synonymous sites. "



Mitochondrial Insertions into Primate Nuclear Genomes Suggest the Use of numts as a Tool for Phylogeny

"Moreover, numts identified in gorilla Supercontigs were used to test the human–chimp–gorilla trichotomy, yielding a high level of support for the sister relationship of human and chimpanzee."



A Molecular Phylogeny of Living Primates

"Once contentiously debated, the closest human relative of chimpanzee (Pan) within subfamily Homininae (Gorilla, Pan, Homo) is now generally undisputed. The branch forming the Homo andPanlineage apart from Gorilla is relatively short (node 73, 27 steps MP, 0 indels) compared with that of thePan genus (node 72, 91 steps MP, 2 indels) and suggests rapid speciation into the 3 genera occurred early in Homininae evolution. Based on 54 gene regions, Homo-Pan genetic distance range from 6.92 to 7.90×10−3 substitutions/site (P. paniscus and P. troglodytes, respectively), which is less than previous estimates based on large scale sequencing of specific regions such as chromosome 7[50]. "



Catarrhine phylogeny: noncoding DNA evidence for a diphyletic origin of the mangabeys and for a human-chimpanzee clade.

"The Superfamily Hominoidea for apes and humans is reduced to family Hominidae within Superfamily Cercopithecoidea, with all living hominids placed in subfamily Homininae; and (4) chimpanzees and humans are members of a single genus, Homo, with common and bonobo chimpanzees placed in subgenus H. (Pan) and humans placed in subgenus H. (Homo). It may be noted that humans and chimpanzees are more than 98.3% identical in their typical nuclear noncoding DNA and probably more than 99.5% identical in the active coding nucleotide sequences of their functional nuclear genes (Goodman et al., 1989, 1990). In mammals such high genetic correspondence is commonly found between sibling species below the generic level but not between species in different genera."


But no, no TRUE SCIENCE here...
 
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BNR32FAN

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Your god sounds like a snowflake and a bully.

Then perhaps I have in some way misrepresented Him. He is the one who gave you life and your family and everyone you love. He is also the one who will give you eternal life with with everyone you love if you believe in Him and obey Him. He is often misunderstood because He is omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful and He has a plan to save us so that we may live in paradise with Him forever free of pain, suffering and heartache. We cannot understand His plan or why He does things the way He does. What we have to remember is that He loves us and knows what is best for us. Why else would he create us? To rule over? Would you feel all mighty and empowered by ruling over an ant bed? He wants a relationship with us but in order for His plan to be perfect He has requirements of us that we meet.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Then perhaps I have in some way misrepresented Him. He is the one who gave you life and your family and everyone you love.

I'm pretty sure that my life is the result of my parents having sex some 38 years and 9 months ago.

He is also the one who will give you eternal life with with everyone you love if you believe in Him and obey Him.

Prove it.

He is often misunderstood because He is omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful

Kind of strange, isn't it, that an omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerfull entity, isn't capapble of making himself properly understood by all........

Seems to me that such an entity would know EXACTLY what to do or say to make anyone understand him properly. In fact, it should be rather trivial for such an entity to do so.

As always, I ask the question what is more likely?

1. that such an entity fails at making himself understood by the vast majority of human population....?

or

2. that you must be somehow mistaken about this entity?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I'm pretty sure that my life is the result of my parents having sex some 38 years and 9 months ago.



Prove it.



Kind of strange, isn't it, that an omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerfull entity, isn't capapble of making himself properly understood by all........

Seems to me that such an entity would know EXACTLY what to do or say to make anyone understand him properly. In fact, it should be rather trivial for such an entity to do so.

As always, I ask the question what is more likely?

1. that such an entity fails at making himself understood by the vast majority of human population....?

or

2. that you must be somehow mistaken about this entity?

Let me ask you this, why is it so important to you that Christians stop believing in God?
 
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Speedwell

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Let me ask you this, why is it so important to you that Christians stop believing in God?
Why are you dragging a stinky red herring like that into the conversation? Nobody wants you, or any other Christian, to stop believing in God.

The creation/evolution debate is not about the existence of God. It's about an eccentric Protestant minority versus everybody else, theist and atheist alike.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Let me ask you this, why is it so important to you that Christians stop believing in God?

I don't single out christians. I object to any faith-based belief. Be it christianity, islam, homeopathy or alien abductions.

I prefer my fellow citizens to believe as many accurate things as possible and the least inaccurate things as possible. I prefer my fellow citizens to hold rational beliefs over irrational beliefs. I prefer my fellow citizens not to be gullible.

Why? Because beliefs inform actions and the actions of my fellow citizens have a potential direct effect on the rest of society - which also includes me.

But by all means: believe whatever the heck you want. While I prefer people to only hold beliefs that can be justified with evidence, I'll also happily fight for your right to believe the biggest nonsense available. Because freedom is important as well.

However, faith-based beliefs have no place in public discourse and especially not in public policies in a secular society.

While you have your right to believe whatever nonsense you like, I also have my right to call it nonsense, argue against it and expose it as the nonsense that it is.

Having said all that, it's not the topic. The topic is evolution, which is science.

In science, no matter what your personal beliefs are, there is no room for "faith". Science is evidence based.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Why are you dragging a stinky red herring like that into the conversation? Nobody wants you, or any other Christian, to stop believing in God.

The creation/evolution debate is not about the existence of God. It's about an eccentric Protestant minority versus everybody else, theist and atheist alike.

Please forgive my misunderstanding I’m not aware that Protestants have a different view on creation from other Christian denominations. Have a blessed day
 
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BNR32FAN

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I don't single out christians. I object to any faith-based belief. Be it christianity, islam, homeopathy or alien abductions.

I prefer my fellow citizens to believe as many accurate things as possible and the least inaccurate things as possible. I prefer my fellow citizens to hold rational beliefs over irrational beliefs. I prefer my fellow citizens not to be gullible.

Why? Because beliefs inform actions and the actions of my fellow citizens have a potential direct effect on the rest of society - which also includes me.

But by all means: believe whatever the heck you want. While I prefer people to only hold beliefs that can be justified with evidence, I'll also happily fight for your right to believe the biggest nonsense available. Because freedom is important as well.

However, faith-based beliefs have no place in public discourse and especially not in public policies in a secular society.

While you have your right to believe whatever nonsense you like, I also have my right to call it nonsense, argue against it and expose it as the nonsense that it is.

Having said all that, it's not the topic. The topic is evolution, which is science.

In science, no matter what your personal beliefs are, there is no room for "faith". Science is evidence based.

So far what has science proven as far as evolution? Not theories but actual facts. I’m just curious
 
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