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If there is "no evidence" for evolution...

Speedwell

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Please forgive my misunderstanding I’m not aware that Protestants have a different view on creation from other Christian denominations. Have a blessed day
Not even all Protestants, only fundamentalist Evangelical Protestants. It is true that other Christian demoninations harbor a few creationists, but they are rare and generally do not support the creationist political agenda. The principal difference between creationists and other Christians appears to be related to a unique genre determination of the Book of Genesis.
 
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Speedwell

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So far what has science proven as far as evolution? Not theories but actual facts. I’m just curious
1. A mechanism. based on phenotypic variation and selection, which is capable of producing speciation.
2. A fossil record which, while not complete, shows many developmental series consistant with increasing diversity through repeated speciation.
3. Genomic evidence consistent with the above.
 
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DogmaHunter

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So far what has science proven as far as evolution?

That it happend, still happens and will continue to happen for as long as biological life reproduces with variation and competes with peers for limited resources.

Not theories but actual facts.

Theories explain facts.

I’m just curious

Then go read a book on biology. There's plenty of material out there on this subject.

Unless you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I can reccomend his book The Greatest Show On Earth. Another gem of his, is The Ancestor's Tale.

If you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I'm sure plenty of biologists who are also theists have written great books on the subject as well, for a layman audience.

Ken Miller, for example.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That it happend, still happens and will continue to happen for as long as biological life reproduces with variation and competes with peers for limited resources.



Theories explain facts.



Then go read a book on biology. There's plenty of material out there on this subject.

Unless you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I can reccomend his book The Greatest Show On Earth. Another gem of his, is The Ancestor's Tale.

If you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I'm sure plenty of biologists who are also theists have written great books on the subject as well, for a layman audience.

Ken Miller, for example.

I rarely have time for reading. When I do it’s usually spent reading the Bible. I need a better understanding of God’s word more than a better understanding of evolution. Also I thought a theory was an idea that is based on facts but not actually proven. So theories are not always correct. Scientists said that theoretically a bumblebee should not be able to fly. But they do. Just saying.
 
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tas8831

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Then perhaps I have in some way misrepresented Him. He is the one who gave you life and your family and everyone you love. He is also the one who will give you eternal life with with everyone you love if you believe in Him and obey Him. He is often misunderstood because He is omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful and He has a plan to save us so that we may live in paradise with Him forever free of pain, suffering and heartache. We cannot understand His plan or why He does things the way He does. What we have to remember is that He loves us and knows what is best for us. Why else would he create us? To rule over? Would you feel all mighty and empowered by ruling over an ant bed? He wants a relationship with us but in order for His plan to be perfect He has requirements of us that we meet.


Sounds like a lot of empty platitudes. I'm sure those beliefs give many people solace and all that, but these assertions are not the least bit convincing.

Even when I was a believer, I didn't believe most of that stuff.
 
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Speedwell

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I rarely have time for reading. When I do it’s usually spent reading the Bible. I need a better understanding of God’s word more than a better understanding of evolution.
Commendable. A good attitude for a Christian.
Also I thought a theory was an idea that is based on facts but not actually proven.
Correct.
So theories are not always correct. Scientists said that theoretically a bumblebee should not be able to fly. But they do.
Correct. When theories are shown to be wrong by actual evidence they have to be modified or replaced.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That it happend, still happens and will continue to happen for as long as biological life reproduces with variation and competes with peers for limited resources.



Theories explain facts.



Then go read a book on biology. There's plenty of material out there on this subject.

Unless you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I can reccomend his book The Greatest Show On Earth. Another gem of his, is The Ancestor's Tale.

If you are allergic to Richard Dawkins, I'm sure plenty of biologists who are also theists have written great books on the subject as well, for a layman audience.

Ken Miller, for example.

First theories are based on facts but are not proven facts yet that’s why they’re called theories and not facts. If theories were facts they wouldn’t be disproven as science gets better. Second evolution has not been proven that’s why it’s called the theory of evolution. I’m sure you already know this.
 
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Speedwell

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First theories are based on facts but are not proven facts yet that’s why they’re called theories and not facts. If theories were facts they wouldn’t be disproven as science gets better. Second evolution has not been proven that’s why it’s called the theory of evolution. I’m sure you already know this.
We agree. What is your point?
 
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Astrophile

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Then perhaps I have in some way misrepresented Him. He is the one who gave you life and your family and everyone you love. He is also the one who will give you eternal life with with everyone you love if you believe in Him and obey Him.

Will He also give us eternal life with people we dislike in order to remind us that we must love our enemies and to encourage us to be reconciled with them, or will he send us to Hell because we dislike some other people?

He is often misunderstood because He is omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing and all powerful and He has a plan to save us so that we may live in paradise with Him forever free of pain, suffering and heartache.

If He is all-knowing and all-powerful and He has a plan to save us, how can this plan possibly fail to the extent that He has to send many of us to Hell because we either don't believe in Him or believe the wrong things about Him?

Also, don't you believe Romans 9:14-23, which explicitly says that God predestined some of us for destruction and others to receive his mercy, before we had done anything to deserve either punishment or reward? Where was God's plan to save us when He did that?

We cannot understand His plan or why He does things the way He does.

If we can't understand God's plan, how can any of us be confident that what we believe about Him is correct?
 
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Astrophile

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First theories are based on facts but are not proven facts yet that’s why they’re called theories and not facts. If theories were facts they wouldn’t be disproven as science gets better. Second evolution has not been proven that’s why it’s called the theory of evolution. I’m sure you already know this.

From theory , a theory is
"1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice:"

You appear to be using definition 6 of theory:

"6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture."

This is not the definition used by scientists when they are referring to the unifying principles of a science.

Even when a theory has been superseded it may still be useful. Isaac Newton's theory of gravitation was superseded by Einstein's general theory of relativity, but when I am calculating the orbits of planets, binary stars, asteroids, etc., I use Newton's theory, which is mathematically easier and nearly as accurate under most circumstances. In the same way the modern synthetic theory of evolution may be superseded in the future, but it will probably still explain most of the facts of biology, and it is most unlikely to be replaced by Biblical creationism.

I don't see fundamentalist Christians complaining that the thermodynamic theory of heat, the kinetic theory of gases, electromagnetic theory, or quantum theory, or a large number of other theories, have not been proven and therefore should not be taught as fact in schools or universities. Why is this; why do fundamentalist Christians accept most scientific theories but reject the theory of evolution?

Finally, what scientific evidence would you find sufficiently compelling to persuade you to provisionally accept the reality of evolution?
 
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DogmaHunter

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I rarely have time for reading. When I do it’s usually spent reading the Bible. I need a better understanding of God’s word more than a better understanding of evolution.

Just a thought, but.... wouldn't a better, deeper, broader understanding of reality only help you understanding this word of God?

I'm an atheist, so obviously I don't even believe that there is a word of god...
But in all honesty, if I would put on some theist shoes here for a second...
It seems reasonable that gathering more knowledge about reality, how things work, would only help in understanding god and god's word better... No?

I'ld even dare say that learning about the world, being scientifically literate, is a moral duty.

Also I thought a theory was an idea that is based on facts but not actually proven.

Indeed. Theories explain facts. Theories never become facts.
"Theory", is the graduation stage of a scientific idea. Ideas start out as testably hypothesis and then get promoted to theory when they are considered well tested and accurate.

So theories are not always correct

Sure, theories can be wrong.
Newton's theory of gravity was wrong, for example. Einstein corrected it.


Scientists said that theoretically a bumblebee should not be able to fly. But they do. Just saying.

So?
 
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DogmaHunter

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First theories are based on facts but are not proven facts yet

Not even "yet". Theories never become "proven facts".
Theories explain facts. They never become facts.
Theories, stay theories.


Second evolution has not been proven

No theory in science is ever proven.
Only supported or disproven.

Evolution is extremely well supported.

that’s why it’s called the theory of evolution. I’m sure you already know this.

I'm also sure that you have a seriously warped idea about scientific jargon and what it means.
 
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PsychoSarah

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First theories are based on facts but are not proven facts yet that’s why they’re called theories and not facts. If theories were facts they wouldn’t be disproven as science gets better. Second evolution has not been proven that’s why it’s called the theory of evolution. I’m sure you already know this.
Yeah, and the bible hasn't even met a standard high enough to be called a theory, so what's your point? Proof is a math thing exclusively; I can prove that 2+2=4 and that there are no exceptions to it. Yet, I cannot prove that I held a duck yesterday even if I have authentic footage of me doing so and I had a degree in Ornithology and I genetically sequenced the bird I held and it matched that of a duck. In that situation, would you honestly consider it reasonable to conclude that I hadn't held a duck just because I can't PROVE it, despite the mountain of evidence supporting the fact that I had indeed held a duck?
 
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Tayla

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Here is a short description I wrote about one of the many pieces of evidence for evolution. Please tell me where in there I was biased against God and what reality I distorted.
I agree with the scientific view. The scientific method is guaranteed to generate truth and knowledge regarding the material physical universe. We should always remember: Scientists got the correct answer about whether the earth is the center of the universe before the Christians did.

That said: I am uncomfortable with the idea that randomness created all of chemical biological life. I think if it were given a "nudge" once in a while from outside the universe such that certain important key quantum mechanical interactions were directed, not random, I would be much happier. This idea is, of course, Intelligent Design, which I admit is not really science at all.
 
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Tayla

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Gene2memE

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That said: I am uncomfortable with the idea that randomness created all of chemical biological life. I think if it were given a "nudge" once in a while from outside the universe such that certain important key quantum mechanical interactions were directed, not random, I would be much happier. This idea is, of course, Intelligent Design, which I admit is not really science at all.

There are some plausible hypotheses that the laws of our physical universe (physics, chemistry and thermodynamics) make life - or at least, the self-replicating chemicals reactions that lead to metabolism, which is the first step beyond simple replication towards life - inevitable.

Controversial New Theory Suggests Life Wasn't a Fluke of Biology—It Was Physics
https://phys.org/news/2012-12-life-inevitable-paper-pieces-metabolism.html
A New Thermodynamics Theory of the Origin of Life | Quanta Magazine

So, life may be random, it may not be. There's still much work to be done.
 
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Tayla

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There are some plausible hypotheses that the laws of our physical universe (physics, chemistry and thermodynamics) make life - or at least, the self-replicating chemicals reactions that lead to metabolism, which is the first step beyond simple replication towards life - inevitable.

Controversial New Theory Suggests Life Wasn't a Fluke of Biology—It Was Physics
https://phys.org/news/2012-12-life-inevitable-paper-pieces-metabolism.html
A New Thermodynamics Theory of the Origin of Life | Quanta Magazine

So, life may be random, it may not be. There's still much work to be done.
An interesting article, thanks.

Yes of course if there were no intelligent designer then the laws of nature and the properties of matter would direct everything via randomness. But this leads to the question of how the universe came to be set up in the first place with everything calibrated and fine-tuned and ready to create chemical biological life. Proposing multiple universes or the inflationary phase after the big bang is not science.

And so there comes a point at which my discomfort is well-founded.

If science answers these questions, I will immediate accept these answers.
 
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tas8831

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I rarely have time for reading. When I do it’s usually spent reading the Bible. I need a better understanding of God’s word more than a better understanding of evolution.

So far what has science proven as far as evolution?

One of these undermines the other.

Troll.
 
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betterorworse

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I think its is bad to call others trolls, considering the hatred involved in saying such things against another. Not because it is bad to say such a thing, instead to say such a thing against a person for no reason. A person who believes in God. I think Jesus may have been accussed of being a troll by those whose only concern is worldly matters such as hatred.
 
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