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Featured If Jesus took the punishment for all sinners, why doesn't he go to Hell?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by 7bjoern7, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    It very clearly says that Job did not sin with his lips, by attributing to God, the evil that befell him. I'm quite away of what Job says, and I also know what it's about.
     
  2. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Ok. So am I
     
  3. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Aware, I mean.
     
  4. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    I'm sure you think you are.
     
  5. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    I know
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  6. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Oh I am very aware of what Job says And I know exactly what it’s about
     
  7. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    In fact, maybe you have forgotten that at the end job confesses with his lips that he didn’t know God as well as he thought he did

    Job 42:5
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Jesus almost certainly did not utter the word "Hades." He probably said Sheol.

    What I see is that the gospel writers chose a Greek word that already had a meaning to a Greek-reading audience, a meaning that they considered close enough in concept to whatever Jesus actually said. And even if Jesus did utter "Hades," then Jesus chose the word for the concept a Greek-speaking audience already understood.
     
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  9. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I find that to be a strange doctrine. Because if Jesus didn't pay the price for the liars, then all the liars are going to the second death. In order to pay the price doesn't Jesus have to take your place somehow and bring himself back alive again, like the resurrection from physical death?
     
  10. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The curse came from God, because of Man's disobedience in Eden.

    God's to impose for disobedience. God's to lift for obedience.

    God Mercifully and graciously chooses to LIFT THE CURSE on those who believe in Jesus. Even as God lifted Jesus out of Hades and the grave Through the resurrection and ascension.
     
  11. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Satisfaction theory of atonement - Wikipedia
     
  12. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    I would think so. But for some reason He didnt. We can only speculate.
     
  13. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Thanks, can you show me proof? Can you point me to scripture that says Jesus didn't suffer the 2nd death for us sinners.

    I can produce scripture that says He went into the heart of the earth where the lava is :)
     
  14. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ransom theory of atonement - Wikipedia

    Christus Victor - Wikipedia

    St. Augustine wrote the following to explain the theory:

    The Redeemer came and the deceiver was overcome. What did our Redeemer do to our Captor? In payment for us He set the trap, His Cross, with His blood for bait. He [Satan] could indeed shed that blood; but he deserved not to drink it. By shedding the blood of One who was not his debtor, he was forced to release his debtors


    "Christus Victor" theory:

    Adam and Eve sold humanity over to the Devil at the time of the Fall... Adam and Eve made humanity subject to the Devil during the fall, and that God, in order to redeem humanity, sent Christ as a "ransom" or "bait" so that the Devil, not knowing Christ couldn't die permanently, would kill him, and thus lose all right to humanity following the resurrection...

    for [the Christus Victor] view, the domination system, understood as something much larger than the Roman governor and the temple aristocracy, is responsible for the death of Jesus [...] The domination system killed Jesus and thereby disclosed its moral bankruptcy and ultimate defeat
     
  15. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    To have "tread the winepress of the wrath of almighty God alone" would imply the atonement dealt with the second death; not just hades.

    Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15

    Jeremiah 48:33 indicates that those who tread it in eternity (paying for their own sin) do so silently.
     
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  16. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Isaiah 63 equals revelation 19 is an astute observation.

    Not sure Jeremiah 48 fits though. It's not a divine reference. It's just talking about people in Edom. Being conquered and not being able to make food for themselves.
     
  17. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Christ had to descend so as to ascend so that He would be first and have the preeminence as our forerunner over all things that men will suffer in this life
    He alone had to walk in our humanity and suffer for us so as to become for us the one and only mediator between God and man because He suffered in all things for our sake. Because apart from Christ, we could not enter in

    It’s only through Christ that we have access to God

    The door between heaven and earth was opened by way of through and by the TRUE VEIL. Which is His Body

    He alone entered in for our salvation and through His suffering become for us our one and only source of salvation.

    The “veil” which stood between God and man was rent. Through Christ and by His Body, which is the true veil and the only way/bridge/door/gate which brings man back and justifies him in the presence of GOD
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  18. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Christ descending had to do with His preaching to those who were held in captivity, that generation who had physically died and had not benefited by Christ’s physical coming and the message of salvation by way of THE CROSS

    God went back and redeemed those who had been waiting for THE PROMISE and led captivity captive in His train (no man proceeded Him through the DOOR but needed HIM who is the DOOR

    The resurrection was a sign for us to understand that through THE CROSS He had been victorious over death

    For us

    God, in His grace, simply revealed to those whom He chose to reveal it, that He had accomplished for us what we apart from Him could not do
    And He opened the way and the only way back to heaven
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  19. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    The story of Elijah being taken up is a prophecy and picture of Christ’s resurrection and an important confession of our faith

    It’s what justifies us in the sight of God. Because it says not only how much we were in a need of a savior and acknowledgement of just how far all have fallen, but the very holiness of God. Because we needed a faithful mediator who is our veil and covering for sin
     
  20. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    All will physically die but not all will suffer the second death.

    Those who believe in the gospel and place their faith in Jesus have already passed from death to life and will not suffer the second death. They already have a part in the first resurrection because they are already seated in Christ

    Those born of His Spirit...know...they were born again of His Spirit
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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