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Featured If Jesus took the punishment for all sinners, why doesn't he go to Hell?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by 7bjoern7, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Translations can be inaccurate. This is true. Although I'm not inclined to think all the translators made these errors deliberately. Although I will concede to the fact that there are translations that are purposefully misleading.

    So, I'll show you how I study the Bible.

    First look at the entire passage, because Isaiah 14:4 actually answers the question for you. It says: ".... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon..."

    So what this tells us is "the king of Babylon" is equated to "Lucifer".

    Now you are correct that "Lucifer" is only used one time in many English translations. And it comes from a Hebrew word that is translated as:
    "praise" 117X
    "glory" 14X
    "boast" 10X
    "mad" 8X
    "shine" 3X
    "foolish" 3X
    "fools" 2X
    "commend" 2X
    "rage" 2X
    "celebrate" 1X
    "give" 1X
    "marriage" 1X
    "renowned" 1X

    Now if we just look at these words; we get kind of an idea. Now we could go and look up all these words to see what context they are used in. (And if you really want to be through about it - than yeah - you can do that.) From the surface though; it looks like something that "shines forth" either via it's intrinsic value; or it "shines forth" because it thinks it's important.

    Now go back and look at the king of Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar was struck down with madness because he'd become proud. In the end he says: God, I now know You alone are God.

    Now "morning star" is only used 3 places in the Bible
    Job 38:7
    Revelation 2:28
    Revelation 22:16

    Yet "son of the morning" is not the same as "morning star". And no where is Nebuchadnezzar equated to Jesus. Babylon though is equated to Satan in Revelation 13. "Babylon the mother of harlots" is riding a "beast". The beast is a system that gets its power from Satan. It's an A=B, B=C, So A=C. (Lucifer = Babylon), (Babylon = Satan), (Lucifer = Satan) Historically speaking though, the passage is addressing Nebuchadnezzar.

    Also historically speaking; what adds itself unto the beast system comes out of the Babylonian captivity. The Mishnah, the Talmud, Rabbinic Judaism all have their penned historical roots in Babylon.

    Now "tradition" will tell you that the Mishnah goes back to Moses; yet we have no historical or Biblical evidence of that. The Mishnah is (allegedly) the "oral law". It is said to go back to Moses and although it is possible there were oral traditions carried over from the days of Moses, the origin of "oral tradition" can only be verified from the point that it was written down. (Thus it is no longer "oral tradition", it is written tradition - and thus "pin down(able)")

    So compare Isaiah 14 to Revelation 14 and Revelation 16-18. Babylon the mother of harlots is the city of Jerusalem. We know this from passages in Revelation.

    Now all of this being said; this gives you a good indication as to why you need to pay attention to details. When ever I study something; I never assume that I understand what it means until I've researched it. And I research the Bible by using the Bible. If you want to know what a passage in the Bible means; you will find the answer somewhere else in the Bible. The Bible is very cleverly written but you have to pay attention to the details and don't assume two things mean the same thing (Such as "son of the morning" and "morning star".)

    Now I'm sure there are German / Hebrew & German / Greek concordances. So you can do this - looking at it all in German; which doing it that way, will probably make it make more sense to you. Because after all; looking at the book of Acts, the Holy Spirit used the apostles to speak to the people in their native languages.
     
  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That means that the sacrifice of our Lord on the cross was not limited to our time frame; it also happened in eternity where our time reference is meaningless.
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Actually, it was quoted correctly - depending on the translation.

    Here it is in a few:
    ISV
    All those who had become settled down and at home, living on the earth, will worship it, everyone whose name had not been written in the Book of Life belonging to the lamb that had been slaughtered since the foundation of the world.

    PHILLIPS
    So it poured out blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. Moreover, it was permitted to make war upon the saints and to conquer them; the authority given to it extended over every tribe and people and language and nation. All the inhabitants of the earth will worship it—all those whose names have not been written in the book of life which belongs to the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    JUB
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship it, whose names are not written in the book of the life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

    KJV
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    AKJV
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    NASB
    All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

    NCV
    And all who live on earth will worship the beast—all the people since the beginning of the world whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life. The Lamb is the One who was killed.

    NET
    and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

    NIRV
    Many people who live on the earth will worship the beast. They are the ones whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life. The Lamb is the one whose death was planned before the world was created.

    NIV
    All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

    NIVUK
    All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast – all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

    NKJV
    All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
     
  4. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    The lengths that people will go to, to twist the word to fit their doctrines, is simply staggering!
     
  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Everything God does is numerical and time centered. It is not meaningless to Him . From a 7 day week of creation to the new earth---time will be kept. The new earth will have no need us of the for light---for Jesus shines brighter than the sun---however, it does not say that there will not be one.


    Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Everything He does Here and on this side of creation. But we are talking BEFORE creation, when time did not even exist.

    “Before the foundation of the world.”
     
  7. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    That is still an assumption for which there really is no verification of. He may have different time frames for different worlds. All creation shows order---even out as far as we can look. Other galaxies still show order.
     
  8. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Please concentrate and consider the “TREE OF LIFE” which was also in the garden.
     
  9. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Because that place won’t be redeemed
     
  10. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    That’s hell. A temporary holding place for the dead outside of Christ That place will give up its dead at the end of all things and will rise and be judged. Some will rise to life, some to condemnation. Read John 5 and follow it with revelation 20

    Remember..The rest of the dead (those who died and did not have a part in the first resurrection...that is, they died outside of Christ, not having believed the Gospel in this life) did not rise again until after the 1000 year reign.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  11. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    No it wasn’t. These were those who died prior to Christ’s physical coming God went back to preach the Gospel by the SPIRIT to those spirits who were in captivity

    The doors were opened, and He led captivity in HIS train

    But that was a one time event


    It’s why the Gospel is preached now to the living. It’s why today is the day of salvation.
     
  12. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    His physical shell of His body laid in the heart of the earth. His Spirit went elsewhere
     
  13. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Jesus laid down the life...
    Temporarily. But by The Spirit, He went three days to preach to those held in captivity.

    Afterwards, He raised up His body (by His Spirit) and was seen by many
     
  14. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    It also says blessed and holy are those who have a part in the first resurrection

    Can you explain?
     
  15. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Adam (and all men) became a living soul. But through Christ (who again breathes on His disciples and is the pattern of Adam) we are made knew by HIS life giving spirit
     
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