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Featured If Jesus took the punishment for all sinners, why doesn't he go to Hell?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by 7bjoern7, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. 7bjoern7

    7bjoern7 New Member

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    Hi.

    This is a serious question. Im questioning everything at the moment, maybe its just a crisis, maybe the Holy Spirit is guiding me, because i pray to be led in all truth and to see all lies...

    If Jesus took my punishment - hell for eternity - why then got he resurrected to sit on the throne? Even tho he was without sin... if he takes my punishment it must be the same punishment or not?

    The old testament says that the punishment for sin is death. "If you eat from the tree of knowledge, you must die", not "you must go to hell".

    I mean... Jesus took a lot of damage and pain for us. But what is that compared for one person being burned alive for eternity?

    Please don't answer to just trust that all this is just rightous, and Iam too human to comprehend it. There is too much deception going on and Im no longer willing to accept anything blindly.
     
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  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain Supporter

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    Jesus' blood is the blood of God. It is infinitely valuable and able to purchase mere sinful creatures from an eternity in hell.
     
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  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Torment in Hell ... No


    Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish (singular)” (2nd death)


    Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” (consume - totally destroyed)

    Perish (singular - not perishing ) suffer complete ruin or destruction.

    Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.” (they will not receive eternal life)


    Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.” (2nd death)

    Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.” (self-explanatory)


    Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.” (will not contune life)


    Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.” (no trace of the wicked totally gone)

    Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” (consumed - totally destroyed)

    Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“ (non-existent)


    Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.” (they will be totally burned up - destroyed by fire)


    Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

    Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

    John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish (singular)” (2nd death)


    Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“ (totally destroyed)


    Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“ (destroyed)


    2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction …” (destroyed - never to live again)

    1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”


    2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“ (2nd death)


    Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“ (2nd death)


    James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”


    2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (the unsaved in the grave will face destruction) 2nd resurrection


    Revelation 20:9

    (9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal non the less, and that some will live forever in hell.

    Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

    Death is Death ... cease to exist. The first death (earthly death) is temporal ... the 2nd death (of the lost) is final and for eternity (totally destroyed - cease to exist).

    We do not have a loving God who tortures people for eternity.

    1 Corinthians 15:26
    And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

    Exist with God for eternity (through Christ) or cease to exist, be destroyed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  4. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    He bore our sins while on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). God poured out his perfect wrath against him there while yet he was bodily crucified.

    "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" - Matthew 27:46

    He suffered in three hours, being perfect God and perfect man, what we would experience in eternity. When all was done, before he departed from this life, he said,

    "It is finished." - John 19:30

    His resurrection secures what he did, and it allows the benefits of it to be conveyed to us sinners. Otherwise, a dead man cannot save you, cleanse you, justify you in him before God. You needed both the death and resurrection to be saved.

    So, what happened at the cross, his bystanders couldn't see.
     
  5. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    To answer the question you asked in your thread title - who says he didn't?
     
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  6. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Christ died for our sins on the cross, and was in hell for three days and nights, and rose again the third day because he sufficiently paid for the sins of the world. Christ said that, "Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus Christ is the living God, and he subjected himself and his infinite value to our condition, yet without sin. However, the death that he experienced, both physically and spiritually, he never deserved to experience. So, when he paid that price, that price wasn't paid on his account, but on ours (since he was perfect and infinitely valuable). Just as God is everlasting, so is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ everlasting in payment. He is everlasting in power, in value, in honor, in glory; therefore, his payment is eternally sufficient for the sins of the entire world: past, present, and future.
     
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  7. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    Question: "If the penalty for our sins is eternity in hell, how did Jesus’ death pay our penalty if He did not spend eternity in hell?"

    Answer:
    If we think of Jesus as merely a man, then this question is a natural one to ask. But the reason Jesus did not have to spend eternity in hell is that He is not merely a man, but the God-man. The second Person of the Godhead took on flesh and lived among men in the form of a man. But He was a man like no other because His nature was that of God—holy, perfect and infinite.

    Several passages attest to this fact, such as the opening passage in John’s Gospel. It is there we read the following:

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:1–3, 14).

    This passage gives clear testimony that the eternal Word, who is co-eternal with God and of the same essence as God, took on human flesh and made His dwelling (“pitched his tent” or “tabernacled”) among us. As the apostle Paul says regarding Jesus, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

    With that in mind, let’s look more closely at the question. It is certainly true that the penalty for our sins is an eternity in hell. The Bible says that all have sinned (Romans 3:23) and that the wages of our sin is death (Romans 6:23). The book of Revelation says that those whose names aren’t in the Lamb’s book of life are cast into the lake of fire where they will be tormented “forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10, 15).

    But how can the death of Jesus atone for the sins of every person who has ever lived? This is where the discussion of Jesus being the God-man comes in. If Jesus were a mere man (with sin of His own), then His death wouldn’t even atone for His own sin, much less the sins of another. But Jesus is no mere man; He is God in human flesh. As a man, He can identify with those for whom He sacrificed Himself. As a perfectly sinless man, He can atone for the sins of mankind without first having to atone for His own sin. Finally, as God, He can fully satisfy the wrath of God that our sins incur.

    Sin against an infinite God must be paid infinitely. That is why payment for our sin must be infinite. There are only two options for infinite payment. Either a finite creature (man) must pay for his sin for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite Being (Jesus) must pay for it once for all men for all time. There are no other options. A sin against an infinitely holy God requires an equally infinite satisfaction as payment, and even an eternity in hell will not dissipate God’s infinite, righteous wrath against sin. Only a divine Being could withstand the infinite wrath of a holy God against our sin. It requires an equally infinite Being as a substitute for mankind to satisfy God’s wrath. Jesus, as the God-man, is the only possible Savior.

    www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-paid-penalty.html
     
  8. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In my church, we do believe he went to Hell, because we confess in the Apostles Creed, "He descended to Hell". He descended to Hell to conquer Hell.
     
  9. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    I wish we used the actual term Jesus used for what most people identify as "hell." Sure, later it was used interchangeably with Hades/Sheol, which is name of the grave, but what about Gehenna (Gr. Valley of Hinnom)? There is a reason he used that name, it was an analogy.
     
  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    He did.

    Though He didn't go to "Hell" as punishment, He went to the place of the dead (Hades/She'ol) in order to, as Firedragon said, defeat it. This is the Harrowing of Hell, Christ's victory over sin, death, hell, and the devil; and His resurrection from the dead.

    Christ's descent into hell is an act of victory over hell.

    Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  11. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because, ... as you noted, ... "the wages of sin ... is death."
     
  12. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Apostles' Creed:

    I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen.
     
  13. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because it doesn't work that way. Jesus was our sin sacrifice and the sin sacrifice was killed to shed it's blood and that atoned for people's sins. The sin sacrifice was never intended to go to hell or receive any further pain or punishment. In the past this had to happen somewhat regularly but with Jesus, his shed blood lasts forever, ready to atone for and forgive someone's sins when they ask for forgiveness and mean it.
     
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  14. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    That explanation makes no sense. Can one not say that an infinite God is one that also has infinite mercy? A finite lifetime of sin that results in infinite torment in hell is not justice by any standard of measure. God's stated purpose is found in Col 1:20 "and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of His cross through Him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens."
    Neither the eternal torment or the annihilation model of justice fits with Col 1:20 since those in eternal torment are never reconciled to God and those who are extinguished/annihilated are never reconciled to God either.
     
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Time does not exist after this life, so no worries mate.
    Jesus did visit Hell for three days.
    People who reject God ARE in Hell, and there, they continue to torment themselves for their decision to be there.
     
  16. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    God told Adam the penalty for sin is death. The problem fallen man has is that he does not have the virtue to overcome the death that sin brought, so death thereby becomes eternal. Adam's sin cut us off from the Source of life, and without it we were destined to spend all our days unreconciled to God.

    Jesus did not have that problem, because He was inherently innocent and not cut off from God. So once He had experienced the death that paid our sin-debt, He was under no obligation to submit to it further. The price was paid, His job was done, He was free to go. As the Scripture says, death could not hold Him.

    And because of what He accomplished, neither can death hold anyone that is in Him.
     
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  17. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    What makes you think Jesus didn't go to the lake of fire for us liars, etc? Matthew 12:40
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because it isn't written that he went there. No one is there yet anyways. Scripture does tell us where he went and it wasn't the LOF. Christ died the first death not the first and second death.
     
  19. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    It sounds like you're describing Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory. And it sounds like you've reached the same dead end in PSA theory logic that I and others have encountered.

    I believe in Satisfaction theory. That does a far better job of explaining Our Lord's sacrifice, the atonement and how He can reign as king in Heaven. Satisfaction theory also has a considerable historical pedigree going for it as well. You should check it out.
     
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  20. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    And what about the heart of the earth for 3 days doesn't sound like a lake fire?
     
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