• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

I don't understand church or christians, I just want to give up already

Discussion in 'Deeper Fellowship' started by quintessentialramble, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

    +578
    Non-Denom
    I've brought those two quotes of your together to encourage you that things may not be as bad as you envision. You've just acknowledged that for many years things have been going pretty good. You know the sad thing is there always can come a day when things fall a part and aren't perfect.

    You don't have to share this of course but you haven't shared why his son said this to you. What possibly could make him feel this way about you?

    And the insult was the pastors son said, "You're barely tolerable"?? But why even though he was wrong did he make such a charge, that is from his perspective?

    Christians are people basically like everybody else. We're called to put off the old man and put on the new man or to walk in God's nature of love within. Unfortunately we're not always faithful or quick to do this as an every day practice. We're supposed to we need to but sometimes we don't. That causes God's heart to feel grieved and makes him want to weep as well.....but he loves his children and is always seeking and wanting them to get back on track, and furthermore to long for his children to get along.

    I think many times the way God looks at things is many times he's looking for people who won't get too caught up in how they were genuinely treated wrongly but is looking for ones who'll choose to rise above it because of more important considerations.

    That the one doing the wrong will lovingly be brought into a position of being strengthened away from them walking in the flesh. In other words babies throw up and do messy things but much praise of God might go to the one who says, "OK I love you I forgive you and will keep on loving you until you've risen above your carnality. LOVE casts out fear....I'd suggest when we're established in the fact that God loves us it doesn't matter what others will do...our self esteem in found in God.

    We should always remember too the saints of old went through the same type things. Paul the Apostle himself I believe at times was shunned by the Jerusalem church. I'm sure that made him sad and was tempted to be hurt. He rose above it though by making a decision he was going to LOVE them whether he felt like it or not.....because he like God embraced higher things to be considered. The goal to see the body of Christ love one another.

    We read he blessed them and when Jerusalem was under famine and the people there had no money to buy food he raised funds to be a blessing to that region. So he returned good towards those to whom were not always good to him. Imagine the LOVE that flowed from both sides when he did that. Establishing love in the saints takes work.

    It does take patience. And it requires yes even US and ALL OF US who might be hurt the odd time to step back and look at the bigger picture. When we do the fascinating thing is it actually takes the hurt away, simply because we don't care about it.....we care about them and the goal of what we want to see the body of Christ become.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +4,571
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    You can definitely pray for aid for your own heart, that it be healed. This aligns to God's will, that our hearts be healed of hurts, as needed here. In order that we be able to love one another -- when our hearts are more healed, we are better able to love, so praying to have emotional wounds healed aligns perfectly to God's will for us, and we can pray with belief it will be given to us (Mark Chapter 11, Christ tells us to believe it will be given to us, and then it will).

    When we don't know how we may have somehow offended someone, or just accidentally bumped into their own old wound or grievance that existed before we ever met them, either way, in time, after any anger cools, we might after our own feelings are less hurt (or even healed) eventually be able to ask them what went wrong. They don't have to be perfect. They may have a combination of both having an old wound and also additionally you doing something you are unaware of, both, for instance. But even if there is nothing you did, still the most loving thing to do is to love them even though they have from your point of view done wrong to you, which means you have to forgive them also, and to do that well, we must look to Christ.

    That feeling/remembering of what He did for us, because we needed forgiving, and how God has forgiven us all our wrongs. This focus/remembering is a vast aid to help us forgive others.

    It could be like me you were offended or hurt enough that it is hard to forgiven them from your heart (not just intellectually, but from the heart). This parable Christ told us in Matthew chapter 18 about forgiveness is helpful, and I needed a couple of years ago to actually pray for help to forgive someone. I prayed that my heart be changed to forgive them, because in my heart I could not even after many days. I prayed something like "Father....change my heart to forgive them." Because I prayed with belief (Mark chapter 11), my prayer was answered. You can be confident when you pray that your heart be changed to forgive someone this aligns perfectly to God's will, and believe that it will be given to you.
     
  3. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +3,478
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Republican
    Maybe it's me, maybe it's that forums are not the ideal place to deal with things like this, but I'm not getting a sense of clarity from this situation. So many biblical guidelines have been ignored or violated I don't see how anything good is going to come of it until someone gets back to the Word and starts living it.

    If there was an offense, the bible tells how to deal with it. That has not been done. And when Moses was challenged, he first fell on his face in a type of self-examination, and then got up, confident in God.

    As for starting a church, there are not already too many of them. We need more good ones. But be sure you've dealt with these issues correctly before taking anything like that on yourself.

    I also agree that Facebook should be avoided.
     
  4. quintessentialramble

    quintessentialramble Member

    188
    +89
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Not sure...I've approached the pastor, who didn't listen...I've taken it to the elders, who said i wasn't wrong and he was, but proceeded to do nothing; also I never said I would start a church, someone else suggested it but I didn't think it wise.
     
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +3,478
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Republican
    I said what I did about starting a church to help free you in that regard; of course it's up to you. But about the present church, you have two choices: either put up with the situation and bloom where you're planted despite its limitations, or look elsewhere. I agree with @mukk_in that it's not easy to find a good church and that finding or starting a small fellowship group can be a real option. No matter what you do, though, be sure there are going to be problems that need to be dealt with. That's why it's essential to resolve present matters internally before you step into the next phase.
     
  6. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

    +10,864
    Christian
    Private
    Take it to the Lord in prayer. He understands and cares about us.
     
  7. Jon Osterman

    Jon Osterman Well-Known Member

    720
    +460
    United Kingdom
    Non-Denom
    Married
    It sounds like you need to move on. Block them on FaceBook and find another church. Stay in the background at the new place a bit until you have figured the place and its dynamics out a little and only then form new relationships. I think it is actually healthy to move on now and again. It stops you becoming stale and uninspired to improve and grow.
     
  8. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

    +2,394
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Can you tell us more about the “other side of the story?”

    What actions of yours “have consequences?” What is the “one sided story” the pastor told about you? What kind of “boundaries” was the pastor setting?

    People don’t say these types of things without a reason.
     
  9. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

    +7,280
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    From your past posts, it does seem that you have a few problems in managing relationships with other people, and in seeing things from their point of view. It might be good to get some kind of counselling on this, particularly with regard to new relationships, moving forward.

    I think I remember you posting about this, and several people pointed out that it might not be appropriate for you to have a relationship with your pastor's daughters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  10. quintessentialramble

    quintessentialramble Member

    188
    +89
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I am not looking for a relationship with my pastor's daughters, certainly not in the romantic sense...however...I do think there is something weird and off about opposite genders avoiding each other completely, particularly when they do not treat other opposite gender relationships with the same contempt. As for reasons...I've told you everything I could and all the words the pastor used. The story he told the elders and deacons was that I had feelings for his daughter...which isn't even true. The police asked if someone had feelings and didn't reciprocate and I said I don't know.
     
  11. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

    +7,280
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    What I'm getting from your story is that:
    • You crossed a line (which is a problem of action)
    • You didn't realise you were crossing a line (which is a problem of perception)
    • You made somebody very, very uncomfortable and didn't back off (which is a lack of charity)
    • You're making this all about you (which is a problem of self-centredness)
    These may be things here that you should be working on for the future. Again, I recommend counselling.

    And I had not realised until now that the police were involved. That's kind of serious.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  12. quintessentialramble

    quintessentialramble Member

    188
    +89
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    A). I literally asked the pastor if I did anything to hurt anybody. He said he didnt feel slighted in any way. I was the one to try apologizing and he said I didn't need to apologize for anything. So while I thought I may have..he said I didnt. I had backed off for a month at which point the assistant pastor told me to have a conversation and the pastor was "more than willing" to speak with me. I backed off for several more months not even attending the church and when reaching out about speaking the pastor obliged in a very excited tone. Only to push me away further when we met.
    B). The entire reason I left was sacrificing my happiness so she could be comfortable..but that doesnt mean I think they were acting biblical.
    C). The police got involved because I turned myself in for a crime i didnt commit...the pastor never reported anything.
     
  13. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

    +7,280
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    But obviously you made his daughter very uncomfortable.

    I hope you got some kind of counselling about that.
     
  14. MumOf4Grls

    MumOf4Grls New Member

    10
    +4
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I'm so sorry you are hurting. You aren't alone as many have been hurt by others in church. It's not uncommon. I've been deeply hurt to where I wanted to stop going altogether but as I sought God I realized I was putting my focus on others. Despite the hurt, I was drawn into a deeper relationship with Him. It can be hard to wrap your mind around those who don't care to reconcile and that is part of free will. Reconciliation does take two, but if one doesn't want to, then the only resort is forgiveness which only takes one. I found that my expectation of others to reconcile was similar to the festering of unforgiveness and had to learn to give it to God and let Him work in the hearts of others. I couldn't move on in my growth until I did this. Since this has affected you so much, would you consider talking with a Christian counselor? This may help you with the emotional responses you experienced. Praying that as you seek God he will walk you through this difficult time.
     
  15. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

    +4,817
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I don't believe it's weird but I understand why many are prudent when developing connections with the opposite sex. Especially persons in their position. Their father is the pastor and it doesn't take much to feed the rumor mill.

    Boundaries and expectations can be difficult areas for many to navigate. And some can be overly familiar. Whether this occurs through oversharing or a form of intimacy that makes the other party uncomfortable. The omission of a barometer is problematic in my mind.

    I suspect its the absence of give and take that is the issue. Some people assume that our belief in Christ alleviates the necessity for reciprocity. I have never felt smothered or put upon more than I did in Christian circles. The absence of invitation and immediacy of "connection" is not how most relate. I don't believe it fosters genuine relationships. It's an avenue for codependent quasi therapy that I avoid.

    It's evident the desire for connection is a one-sided affair. You are reading things into their social media behavior out of your want to be reconciled. Most would have moved on. Your reluctance to do so only validates their concerns. Let it go.
     
  16. YanKee Gal

    YanKee Gal YanKee Gal

    104
    +113
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I read your story. I too have had "experiences" in churches. If you have a past they hold it against you. Met one minister that did group "counseling". He made everyone confess their sins to one another. Then he went out and gossiped about all those in his church. People left. Many will crucify you if you are an ex-gay or an ex-prostitute, etc. They will never see you as a new person in christ.
    I have found many ministers should never have been in office cause they did it in the flesh. they had no anointing to be a minister.
    think upon the times we live in. we are in the end times and the love of many has grown cold. there are many churches teaching live your best life now... not pick up your cross, die to self daily, crucify the flesh... OH NO!!! Pamper the flesh with prosperity garbage. Being blessed is always a reward in the bible for obedience. So i say God is pruning people out of your life who would hold you back. we are told to SEEK HIM. hard to do when he is explained for us so we don't search out the scriptures for ourselves.
    I would say go for a walk in nature like Adam did in the garden and let the Father commune with your heart. ask the holy spirit to be your teacher which the bible says is our only teacher. believers when they gather together are told to exhort and encourage one another with hymns, songs and scripture. to pray for one another. it is not our job to change each other. we are told to help each other grow. we can only study the scriptures together. You want fellowship i would seek out a home bible study group and attend that once a week. I would journal my daily thoughts and words the Lord gives to you. You will see the growth and be glad you did. Blessings
     
  17. JesusYeshuaisLord

    JesusYeshuaisLord Member

    151
    +77
    New Zealand
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Encouraging you to read the below, that can be for you or/and for the people you have issues with:
    Matthew 23:1-3 (Do what they say to do but not what they do. The whole chapter is great!)
    Matthew 24:12-13 (Love will grow cold)
    Romans 12:9-21 (Love)
     
  18. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +2,865
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Hebrews 12:2-4
    2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
    3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
    4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin
    .


    Your anchor is Christ, is it not? You are complete in him, are you not? How, then, can you be "broken" by the inevitable "slings and arrows" that afflict all of us sooner or later? Does the love of Christ, his most excellent Person, not compensate for all the hurt others might give you? If not, why ever not? He is the Apex of human existence, the Zenith of All Things, and our Beautiful, Perfect Saviour. Why, then, are you "broken"? You possess in the All-Sufficient Christ the very greatest thing in all of Creation!

    And do you think this state of mind came from God? Do you think the Holy Spirit is the source of such a condition? I don't. And if it hasn't come from God, where do you think it has come from? Also, if it is not from God it is not of God, I think, and ought to be forsaken.

    And your response here shows your faith to be weak and self-focused, I'm afraid. Until this changes, you will continue to take every slight and offense as a mortal wound that devastates you. This is a serious problem for one who wants to walk with God. There is no shortage of people - Christian and not - who will abuse you and so you will find yourself in a never-ending state of woundedness, kept by your wounds from being an effective servant of your Maker. Satan would love that, you can be sure!

    Friend, if you want to be a proper disciple of Christ, you are going to have to learn to die to yourself. Your desire to take offense, your response of sensitivity to the insults of others, is directly opposite the example Christ has set for you as one of his disciples.

    Matthew 16:24-25
    24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
    25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.


    Ephesians 4:32
    32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  19. UnprofitableServant

    UnprofitableServant ThyWillBeDone

    155
    +99
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    What you have written seems very strange to me. The main theme from all of your church experience is that you were doing everything right for the church, and then one day they just flipped a switch and turned against you. Does this sound accurate? I find this strange. Usually there are many situations or happenings that lead up to a blow up that damages relationships. But to just flip the switch for apparently no reason just sounds off to me...
    Anyways, I don't know any of the people you are referencing, so I can't know for certain if what you're saying isn't true. I just wanted to share this.

    I hope what I will say next will be a good way forward for you. We all want to find a place where we fit in. There is nothing wrong with that. It sounds like you've been trying to fit in at various church assemblies and unfortunate events happen one after another. Have you considered God may be pointing you in a different direction? In the direction closer to Jesus. Consequently, the closer we get to Jesus, the further people tend to get to us. Jesus said it would be like this. It is something all Christians face.

    Maybe you've been looking in the wrong place to find fellowship. There are a lot of professing Christians that go to church, but not all of them go for the purpose of worshiping Jesus. People have many reasons for going to the building we call 'church' (eg. family pressure, looking for a spouse, respectability, fear, etc.) What we need to work out for ourselves is the why are we going to church? What are our motives? If our motive is anything else but following Christ, then it is time to question our motives.

    I can appreciate Christians hurting you. However, how others treat you shouldn't be linked to your faith in Christ. Our faith in Christ isn't based on others. It is based on Christ; Christ alone. Work on your relationship with Jesus, then all these other issues will fall by the wayside. You don't need a building to attend a church. All you need is one other person. Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name then there He will be. If you keep seeking for people that want to have a personal relationship with Christ, and not with a building, then God will direct those people to you.

    Take courage brother! We only lose the race if we stop running. Keep fighting the good fight of faith and know you have someone to talk to.
    In peace
     
Loading...